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Discussion, make Nuclear anarchy mean something..


Captain Enema
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This is not for a single nuke. I'm talking about if someone eats numerous nukes all at once and has several major population centers vaporized.

 

When this happens I often see people who have been nuked keep on attacking as if nothing has happened. Not going to point fingers because I seem to remember when I've done just the same thing in days gone by.

 

I can't help but wonder just how feasible that really is.

 

Millions of dead civilians would have some sort of effect on the morale of soldiers. Having to redeploy to deal with the damage would cause more problems.

 

Now, I would hate to see this turn into a thread where people moan back and forth about rping out economies. It's not what my idea proposes.

 

I suggest the following:

 

If you lose more than one major population center in a nuclear attack and are operating offensively you do an immediate roll. If you fail that roll, you redeploy back home.

 

I suggest 70 percent for this roll. Meaning 0 - 70 percent you are good, over that, start hiking buddy you be heading home.

 

For the next round of combat if you survive the first roll, you do a second and that is 85 percent. 0 to 85 you keep fighting, anything over... start hiking.

 

This is just for nuclear attacks..

 

Nothing else.

 

 

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Well, let's assume you got two countries with large-scale frontlines sitting opposite each other, kind of like the Eastern front on WWII. Or, could even be western front WWI. We know somewhat who is "on the offense". Now, two population centers get nuked, they lose the roll. You hopefully agree that they won't just instant-teleport all their stuff home. In such a situation, I'd think, maybe a limited redeployment, weakening their ability to conduct further offensives, but normally, there's a certain balance to strike between sending home troops and leaving troops behind to deal with the enemy, instead of getting overrun, especially on the retreat.

 

What is a major population centre, btw?

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Meh, there's ways to RP out why your troops aren't going home. Anything from the fact that the nuking isn't known to them, to the fact that they're on another continent and lack the means to get home easily enough. I'm also not sure why one's regular army, as opposed to something like the national guard, police forces, and disaster response agencies, would be the ones deployed to respond to the smoking crater in the ground that used to be a city.

 

That said, better RP in response to getting nuked is always appreciated. Better RP in general is always appreciated. :P

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RAND did some studies on the ability of countervalue to demoralize a population.  This was actually one of the things early advocates of air power talked about.  And the reality is there is not evidence to support nuking populations or bombing populations demoralizes populations.  

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Based on what I've seen in my time here, I get why this would be brought up. It is a game, so there needs to be balance involved, but from a realism standpoint, isn't the real problem that nukes get lobbed like nobody's business, more than the responses to them? I get somebody is going to throw all their nukes at someone before their nation is defeated, but I would rather see more responsible role play on this matter, which I know is basically outside the powers of community rules. Sorry, I know I'm not presenting a solution yet, I will try to, these are just my musings on the subject.

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I suppose based on that, the solution would be a concrete penalty for being being nuked to be applied to your military effectiveness going forward in the conflict. Something black and white like a reduction in effectiveness in engagements. It may not be steeped in realism, but neither is firing off twenty nukes because you are losing a ground war. Or other nations being effected by the fallout for that matter.

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RPing out nukes completely accurately destroys RP because they're so easy to use and so potentially devastating without counter. We need to find a medium between allowing nukes and having nukes matter, not a good reason to get rid of nukes altogether.

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I get what you're saying, Hereno, its a hard balance to strike. I just think if there was a strong penalty, it would normalize it to proper balance levels. That being said, it does kind of screw small nations like me, as it puts us at an even bigger disadvantage. That's the nature of things, I suppose.

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RAND did some studies on the ability of countervalue to demoralize a population.  This was actually one of the things early advocates of air power talked about.  And the reality is there is not evidence to support nuking populations or bombing populations demoralizes populations.  

 

That's an interesting point. Do you have a link on that study? Sounds like it would be an interesting read.

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RPing out nukes completely accurately destroys RP because they're so easy to use and so potentially devastating without counter. We need to find a medium between allowing nukes and having nukes matter, not a good reason to get rid of nukes altogether.

 

What I'm proposing has really very little to do with the morale of the nation. It's more about the necessity of providing material support to those who have been afflicted by a nuclear attack.

 

Which is why I've stipulated this be for more than one nuclear attack and for major population centers.

 

Further, the percentages are favorable to the person nuked. Over 75 percent to force a pull back on the first roll and 85 percent on the second roll.

 

I think it adds in an element of chance into the equation. You get two or three major cities hit, they go up in flames, there are millions of casualties. Massive property damage, huge lost of supplies, troops, and so forth.

 

A roll is done, if the person fails it they have to begin pulling back. I'm not saying this is due to morale, they may well be pulling back with the grim determination to come back swinging as soon as they can. Further, they may not even get a chance to pull back, their opponent might give chase, which could bring about an immediate necessity to halt the pullback.

 

Either way, I'm not gonna flip out because my idea isn't liked. There have been some good thoughts put out on this thread by several people who have raised good points.

 

Well done gents, a useful conversation for once. Keep at it and I might just find myself saying I sort of like some of you rabble.

Edited by Tidy Bowl Man
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Nukes are just big, indiscriminating bombs. There is, apart from the psychology of the whole thing, not a whole lot of difference between me bombing the !@#$ out of you with planes, leveling you with artillery, or using another conventional weapon for mass destruction. If we're going to implement this for nukes, we may as well just implement it for everyone that faces an economic challenge back at home. Otherwise, it's just making nukes pointless and inviting people to RP around it, starting a bunch of needless disputes later down the line. We already RP that people need to RP things out correctly, and individual situations can be looked at.

The reason nobody RPed the Milanese nukes correctly is because I did it to make a point more than as an actual conflict. My characters were aliens and talking in Styx lyrics. Yeah, they deserved the nukes, but I could have fought the situation and got it all retconned anyway and kept Milan. The GMs had already decided to do that before I just left it and moved. Has this really shown to be such a problem in the past? If so, I think that's the fault of the community than of the ruleset.

Edited by Hereno
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I'd actually like a method of punishing both ragenukers and those who got ragenuked, so instead of just rerolling and sprouting with a brand new navy and military you have to still deal with the fact you just got leveled.

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If you want to make nuclear anarchy mean something then approach it like we do land annexations.

 

If person X fires nukes first at person Y, and person Y responds (general nuclear exchange), both nations MUST make twenty posts minimum, over the course of two RL months about recovery. This is regardless who wins the war.

 

If person X fires nukes at person Y, and person X re-rolls right afterwards, person X must write fifteen posts minimum over the course of two months recovering from an unknown catastrophic incident of a nuclear war sort of scale. However, person Y, must only write ten posts over the course of two months for recovery if not even less.

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If you want to make nuclear anarchy mean something then approach it like we do land annexations.

 

If person X fires nukes first at person Y, and person Y responds (general nuclear exchange), both nations MUST make twenty posts minimum, over the course of two RL months about recovery. This is regardless who wins the war.

 

If person X fires nukes at person Y, and person X re-rolls right afterwards, person X must write fifteen posts minimum over the course of two months recovering from an unknown catastrophic incident of a nuclear war sort of scale. However, person Y, must only write ten posts over the course of two months for recovery if not even less.

 

I mean.... You could do that but what good would it do? I'd just write three paragraphs of meaningless crap, upset that I'm forced to RP something. It wont enrich RP, it'll just add crappy RP to the existing pool of RP.

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