The Pink Team's gone mad. Pecers are on the loos.

[Xanth]

Whatever your reason might be, these sanctions effect a lot more nations than just the ones directly sanctioned. So generally there should be a very good reason for doing so.

 

I am aware of what my request accomplished, are you?

[Sephiroth]

 

I am aware of what my request accomplished, are you?

Hurting nations of the pink sphere at the request of a nation who isn't even a member of the Pink Sphere.

[The Zigur]

I'm a little disturbed to see yet another undeserving Pink Nation get sanctioned. Anarquista just got sanctioned with reason "Request from Xanth", apparently for hitting a nation attacking his AA. Sad day for the pink sphere when defending your alliance from attack is a sanctionable offense.

 

I've been voting Cuba since he started running until this cycle where I voted Lum, before that I voted Timmeh. So I'm not anti-PECS and have been supporting them with my votes. Although I'm disturbed by how things are developing on Pink. My trade circle has members from 4 different alliances on it, one of them in LSF. So these sanctions don't just hurt the nations these senators are trying to hurt, but also hurting a lot of nations who have made the Pink Sphere their home. A lot of trade circles are likely getting messed up due to these excessive sanctions...

 

lol still think DBDC embodies the libertarian ideal?

[Xanth]

Hurting nations of the pink sphere at the request of a nation who isn't even a member of the Pink Sphere.

 

 

I will admit my actions were purely self serving and done for selfish reasons. Though if you ask around you may find some other pink nations that just benefited from this action.

[Anarquista]

pathetic

[Sephiroth]

 

lol still think DBDC embodies the libertarian ideal?

Originally those I spoke with in DBDC seemed to be against sanctions in general and I was surprised the first time I saw a DBDC senator sanction a pink nation at the request of someone of a different color sphere. (Even if at the time they actually had reason to so due to a DoW against them, if they didn't use "Request by NG" as the reason). Although Cuba still has never used his seat to sanction anyone, so I think me and him might still be on a similar page regarding sanctions. Although he should be able to put a stop to it if he wants to. Originally I think DBDC wanted a secure position in the senate to ensure they couldn't get sanctioned (along with their affiliated AAs), but things seem different now. Personally I liked DBDC the most when they were an alliance of "soft neutrality" and existed as a group of nations powerful enough to transcend ordinary political norms, who weren't tied into the treaty web.

 

Also the senator going wild with the sanctions isn't DBDC, so the high amount of recent sanctions might not be supported by DBDC and could just be a case of them not having done anything about an alliance affiliated with them going mad with power now that he is a senator. There was a time DBDC seemed to represent maximizing freedom and growing out of range of anyone who might try to limit their freedom. DBDC has the power where they could ignore all sanction requests by other alliances or individuals; and even remove any sanctions placed on Pink Team Nations without fear of repercussion. Personally I hope they go back in that direction and don't let others use their power for gain (By getting themselves tied down in the web), but become an unstoppable force who also does some good with it.

[Neo Uruk]

Originally those I spoke with in DBDC seemed to be against sanctions in general and I was surprised the first time I saw a DBDC senator sanction a pink nation at the request of someone of a different color sphere. (Even if at the time they actually had reason to so due to a DoW against them, if they didn't use "Request by NG" as the reason). Although Cuba still has never used his seat to sanction anyone, so I think me and him might still be on a similar page regarding sanctions. Although he should be able to put a stop to it if he wants to. Originally I think DBDC wanted a secure position in the senate to ensure they couldn't get sanctioned (along with their affiliated AAs), but things seem different now. Personally I liked DBDC the most when they were an alliance of "soft neutrality" and existed as a group of nations powerful enough to transcend ordinary political norms, who weren't tied into the treaty web.
 
Also the senator going wild with the sanctions isn't DBDC, so the high amount of recent sanctions might not be supported by DBDC and could just be a case of them not having done anything about an alliance affiliated with them going mad with power now that he is a senator. There was a time DBDC seemed to represent maximizing freedom and growing out of range of anyone who might try to limit their freedom. DBDC has the power where they could ignore all sanction requests by other alliances or individuals; and even remove any sanctions placed on Pink Team Nations without fear of repercussion. Personally I hope they go back in that direction and don't let others use their power for gain (By getting themselves tied down in the web), but become an unstoppable force who also does some good with it.

For some reason, I doubt Cuba cares.

[Hereno]

ITT: Try hards mess with LSF because "they can" and think they've stumbled upon an amazing new morality for this brave new world.

--

Hey Xavier, how's that avatar treating you?
 

[cut]
No, you're a teenage liberal who needs to stop reading so much Noam Chomsky.
[cut]

Called this !@#$ over a month ago. Cool to see you still digging the Elesufis, though.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Hereno

[Unknown Smurf]

Hurting nations of the pink sphere at the request of a nation who isn't even a member of the Pink Sphere.

 

Xanth only requested that ronjoy be removed from the sanctions list on the pink team. This opened up a sanction spot, which was then used on Anarquista as far as I can tell Xanth had nothing to do with who was sanctioned with that open slot. 

 

That said, it seems to be as though Anarquista is fitting the mold of a nuclear rogue. He is not responding to messages (despite being active), and declaring war/continuing attacks despite a ceasefire. 

 

My patience wears thin. I understand LSF has a lot of other things going on but as I said here and elsewhere this is unrelated. 

 

pathetic

 

I think it's pathetic that LSF responded to Kaskus' offer of peace and reps with another declaration and a nuke. 

 

You speak of times past yet you continue to ignore global norms. 

[SirWilliam]

Get mad or get even.

[Xanth]

 

Xanth only requested that ronjoy be removed from the sanctions list on the pink team. This opened up a sanction spot, which was then used on Anarquista as far as I can tell Xanth had nothing to do with who was sanctioned with that open slot. 

 

That said, it seems to be as though Anarquista is fitting the mold of a nuclear rogue. He is not responding to messages (despite being active), and declaring war/continuing attacks despite a ceasefire. 

 

My patience wears thin. I understand LSF has a lot of other things going on but as I said here and elsewhere this is unrelated. 

 

 

I think it's pathetic that LSF responded to Kaskus' offer of peace and reps with another declaration and a nuke. 

 

You speak of times past yet you continue to ignore global norms. 

 

 

You just had to ruin my fun here didn't you...

[Unknown Smurf]

All LSF is doing is creating a boogeyman out of nothing.

[Sephiroth]

 

Xanth only requested that ronjoy be removed from the sanctions list on the pink team. This opened up a sanction spot, which was then used on Anarquista as far as I can tell Xanth had nothing to do with who was sanctioned with that open slot. 

 

That said, it seems to be as though Anarquista is fitting the mold of a nuclear rogue. He is not responding to messages (despite being active), and declaring war/continuing attacks despite a ceasefire. 

 

My patience wears thin. I understand LSF has a lot of other things going on but as I said here and elsewhere this is unrelated. 

 

 

I think it's pathetic that LSF responded to Kaskus' offer of peace and reps with another declaration and a nuke. 

 

You speak of times past yet you continue to ignore global norms. 

Its odd they would use the sanction reason "Request by Xanth" for sanctioning someone if all Xanth did was request someone unsanctioned, although I've never known Xanth to be the kind of guy to resort to such pettiness. So I'll believe your version on that, I never claimed to know the real reason behind that sanction. Everything about it seemed odd to me.

 

As for fitting the mold of a rogue, I think under global norms the guy who attacked LSF without backing from Kaskus would fit that mold more and traditionally an alliance would be free hit those who rogue them back a bit, before needing to give them peace. Needing to give immediate peace to someone who rogues them has never been the norm. On most color spheres it would be the guy who hit LSF who would be sanctioned, if anyone were to get sanctioned in such a situation. The Pink Sphere I advocate is one where neither gets sanctioned in such a situation, but the situation is allowed to play out without messing up people's trades.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Methrage

[Unknown Smurf]

Its odd they would use the sanction reason "Request by Xanth" for sanctioning someone if all Xanth did was request someone unsanctioned, although I've never known Xanth to be the kind of guy to resort to such pettiness. So I'll believe your version on that, I never claimed to know the real reason behind that sanction. Everything about it seemed odd to me.

 

As for fitting the mold of a rogue, I think under global norms the guy who attacked LSF without backing from Kaskus would fit that mold more and traditionally an alliance would be free hit those who rogue them back a bit, before needing to give them peace. Needing to give immediate peace to someone who rogues them has never been the norm. On most color spheres it would be the guy who hit LSF who would be sanctioned, if anyone were to get sanctioned in such a situation. The Pink Sphere I advocate is one where neither gets sanctioned in such a situation, but the situation is allowed to play out without messing up people's trades.

 

I would agree with your analysis in the second part if that is actually what happened. But what actually happened was that LSF was told not to vote for this senator on public message boards -- after someone did, the kaskus member in question (CIC) declared but did not attack. He asked if he should and just declared to keep the target out of peace mode. At which point the LSF member attacked FIRST, and CIC retaliated. Once I got online and was made aware of the situation I messaged 6 prominent LSF members (as they have no government) offering reps (despite not actually doing the first attacks) and peace. I was basically ignored, I only got a response from SabCat in which he stated he's not sure what is going on and he would check the forums/contact me on IRC. He never got back to me so I messaged him again and he said something similar and then posted this without actually contacting me.

 

Considering the Kaskus nation has been nuked (despite being nonnuclear) I am rescinding my offer of reperations. If LSF actually wishes to handle this like any normal alliance would, I am available in many different mediums, many of which they have access to considering our history.

[Prodigal Moon]

Also the senator going wild with the sanctions isn't DBDC, so the high amount of recent sanctions might not be supported by DBDC and could just be a case of them not having done anything about an alliance affiliated with them going mad with power now that he is a senator. There was a time DBDC seemed to represent maximizing freedom and growing out of range of anyone who might try to limit their freedom. DBDC has the power where they could ignore all sanction requests by other alliances or individuals; and even remove any sanctions placed on Pink Team Nations without fear of repercussion. Personally I hope they go back in that direction and don't let others use their power for gain (By getting themselves tied down in the web), but become an unstoppable force who also does some good with it.

When has DBDC or it's affiliates shown any concern for doing "good"? They're sociopaths. The sole motivation guiding their behavior is maximizing their power in the long run.

[Sephiroth]

 

I would agree with your analysis in the second part if that is actually what happened. But what actually happened was that LSF was told not to vote for this senator on public message boards -- after someone did, the kaskus member in question (CIC) declared but did not attack. He asked if he should and just declared to keep the target out of peace mode. At which point the LSF member attacked FIRST, and CIC retaliated. Once I got online and was made aware of the situation I messaged 6 prominent LSF members (as they have no government) offering reps (despite not actually doing the first attacks) and peace. I was basically ignored, I only got a response from SabCat in which he stated he's not sure what is going on and he would check the forums/contact me on IRC. He never got back to me so I messaged him again and he said something similar and then posted this without actually contacting me.

 

Considering the Kaskus nation has been nuked (despite being nonnuclear) I am rescinding my offer of reperations. If LSF actually wishes to handle this like any normal alliance would, I am available in many different mediums, many of which they have access to considering our history.

I like Kaskus and hope you get the situation resolved, but I also have a lot of respect for LSF and how they have handled their senate powers in the past. So I'm not pleased to see them getting sanctioned heavily for not voting how they were told by newer alliances on the color sphere.

 

When GOONS went around requesting me sanctioned on every color sphere, LSF was the only alliance willing to say no and keep me unsanctioned on pink; even when every other color had me sanctioned. This is why I moved to Pink and have remained on Pink. I think PECS should gain senate control by showing they will be good senators and make people want to vote for them, rather than try gaining all the seats with force; while abusing senate powers against those who vote differently.

 

LSF has been the most anti-sanction alliance I've ever dealt with who have held a seat, so seeing the senate used against them like this is not a pleasant sight for me.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Methrage

[CubaQuerida]

For some reason, I doubt Cuba cares.

You're right.  This is pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things.  LSF is all up in arms because BONES issued an edict on the pink sphere that people who continued to vote for Defenderland would face consequences.  Pink nations subsequently made more of a defiant effort to not only vote, but let BONES know publicly that they voted, and would continue to vote for a senator that not only made bad sphere choices, but isn't even active enough to see what's happening on his behalf.  

 

The reason I don't care is because I'm confident DBDC and TOP and BONES will be just fine in the decision making process.  We will pass the proposals that benefit our sphere and reject the overall terrible proposals, which looks like at least half of them.  It's important to us that pink sphere move in the right direction all the time, and that the right people are in power in the senate.  I said before I don't anticipate a huge sanction war, but it has crossed my mind at least once when I read super snarky pink team messages from nations I've never heard of.

[Anarquista]

Thanks methrage

[Hereno]

Thanks methrage

Someone should sig this.

[Sabcat]

I'm not sure whats going on, the Kaskus guy hitting LSF is unrelated to PECS and I've messaged multiple people on the LSF AA and been ignored by everyone except Sabcat who says he has no idea what is going on and then annouces this. 

 

I am suspicious but I'm looking into it -- feel free to contact me on IRC like you said you would 30+ hours ago. 

 

 

You weren't around on IRC last night (afternoon for you) but I don't think it's too much to get stressed about. Your guy went off without any kind of government sanction and declared war on another alliance's nation. They got beat up a bit. I'm pretty sure he'll see some peace offers today. He's lucky, a lot of alliances would tell you to kick him and ZI the child.

[Azaghul]

Whether it's with 4 seats or 5 (currently 5) PECS is going to control the Senate so you better get used to it.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Azaghul

[Unknown Smurf]

 

 

You weren't around on IRC last night (afternoon for you) but I don't think it's too much to get stressed about. Your guy went off without any kind of government sanction and declared war on another alliance's nation. They got beat up a bit. I'm pretty sure he'll see some peace offers today. He's lucky, a lot of alliances would tell you to kick him and ZI the child.

 

Lucky how? He did no damage after declaring (except in retaliation) and was nuked twice. He only declared to keep him out of peace mode, which is standard procedure for someone who has committed an act of war.* 

 

* = I am not here to argue whether voting for Defenderland is an act of war or not, but just stating that my member read on the pink team message board that it was and that is why the way he reacted the way that he did. LSF ignoring the issue for 72 hours so you could get a couple nukes and a cheap OWF shot in is petty and I find it despicable that you require a threat of war before you can respond to such a simple scenario.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Unknown Smurf

[Sabcat]

You might want to get your facts straight on that last part. Da Dreadlord and Defenderland (both non-PECS senators) are two of three senators who voted yes for the immigration proposal. Bones voted without PECS' consent and that mistake surely won't happen again.

For future references, name calling won't get you anywhere.

 

Bones voted for the proposal that he's all upset about.  Comedy gold. 

[Sabcat]

 

Lucky how? He did no damage after declaring (except in retaliation) and was nuked twice. He only declared to keep him out of peace mode, which is standard procedure for someone who has committed an act of war.* 

 

* = I am not here to argue whether voting for Defenderland is an act of war or not, but just stating that my member read on the pink team message board that it was and that is why the way he reacted the way that he did. LSF ignoring the issue for 72 hours so you could get a couple nukes and a cheap OWF shot in is petty and I find it despicable that you require a threat of war before you can respond to such a simple scenario.

 

Wait, what? You've messaged every LSF member crying that I included a reference to the Kaskus attack in this thread and it's unrelated to PECS, you even say as much in this thread.  Now you're saying Bolivar had committed an act of war by voting for Defender Land. Go home Smurf, you're making about as much sense as Bones. 

 

The act of war here was the declaration of war. Spin it however you like.

[Unknown Smurf]

I messaged every LSF nation in game because no one involved in the war with CIC (or prominent members such as yourself) responded to my original inquiries for over 48 hours.

Out of respect for your no-government style I felt it was fair to give each LSF nation a fair chance to solve this before it escalates.

Maybe I've done more for you than you deserves.