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You are walking past a cave... A wild bros appears!


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There appears to be a large bulge protruding from your pants.

 

Hm. How peculiar. It is in the rear.

 

It appears to have breached your pants. Upon closer examination, it appears to be a large, wooden stick-like object.

 

Edit:

Please learn a skill I learned a long time ago, at an age much younger than you are today: separate the people from the cause.

 

You were part of the problem, not just a bystander within the alliance saying, "now boys, cut that out this instance!" so just stop it.

 

Once again: "Most importantly, I organize a yearly donation drive to a different charity every year. The first year, CN raised $4500 for charity. After that, however, some people decided that IC and OOC were the same, and refused to donate based on MKs IC actions."

 

You got called on the bolded part.  What happened to Hoo and Kait, from the digging into their background to the defaming photoshops that got passed around, to the contacting of Kait's ex was most decidedly OOC, and was a MAJOR contributing factor to the failure of your fundraising.  There's more of course (too many incidents to list here really), but that should be sufficient.

 

Stop the revisionism.  Sure you can get a goon squad to come in here and badger me all you want, it does not change the facts.

 

Yeah I don't know which disgusted me more - the people that brought someone else's RL troubles to the community's attention in the first place, the people that dug into it to find out more than anyone actually needed to know, or the people that keep a special place for it alive just in case they need to use it as a cudgel to bludgeon an already dead enemy with.

Auctor I was happy to let bros do whatever in relation to CN right up until he started the revisionist bull, unless you actually want to go along with his claim that MK's little charity gig failed because they did mean things IC, then we have a problem.

 

Of course not, can't let anything intrude upon your little bubble wherein ~ChairmanHal~ has the requisite stature and integrity to patronize someone else. I mean, imagine having the scales fall from your eyes only to realize that you're a blustering pompous laughing stock. Better you stay in that safe little bubble.
 

And what does MK have to do with contributing to providing water to needy people, or any of the other charitable acts that money funded? You accuse MK of overstepping the bounds of IC and OOC, yet you can't seem to differentiate yourself.

Ahh yes, the old, "you're stupid!" insult, used by people to make themselves feel better since kindergarten...it's a kind of a shame they passed me along straight into 1st grade when I started school, I feel like I missed nothing, but I'm sure the Play-Doh was cool.

 

If all that MK did was provide water to needy people, then I'd salute them as people who have their priorities in order.  If they did that and had a few unruly members, then that would be unfortunate but on balance they'd be good people.  But that's not the whole story, and the whole story wasn't pretty and you know it.

 

Of course not, that would be admitting that the issue isn't as black and white as you'd want it to be.

Keep in mind that you're trying to explain, using a Bad Action, why you as a community member should not perform a Good Action.

I called someone on a false statement.  That's not a "Bad Action".  I'm sorry if that isn't "grey" enough for you.

 

 

Everything is black and white, as long as it suits your limited worldview!

And everything is in bounds if there are no lines.

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Ahh yes, the old, "you're stupid!" insult, used by people to make themselves feel better since kindergarten...it's a kind of a shame they passed me along straight into 1st grade when I started school, I feel like I missed nothing, but I'm sure the Play-Doh was cool.
 
If all that MK did was provide water to needy people, then I'd salute them as people who have their priorities in order.  If they did that and had a few unruly members, then that would be unfortunate but on balance they'd be good people.  But that's not the whole story, and the whole story wasn't pretty and you know it.


I'm not calling you stupid, I'm criticizing the way you talk down to everyone like you are the sole bearer of ultimate truth and are unwilling to consider opposing information presented to you.

That's fine, you don't have to like MK. But to slam the charity drives on the basis that they were administrated by a MK member is ludicrous.
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You were part of the problem, not just a bystander within the alliance saying, "now boys, cut that out this instance!" so just stop it.

 

I had no hand in the inciting of that incident or the promotion of it. I informed MK gov that it would be in their best interests legally to either delete the content or make it visible to only members, to limit exposure and reduce liability. However, they opted to make it public for "the lulz"

 

 

Once again: "Most importantly, I organize a yearly donation drive to a different charity every year. The first year, CN raised $4500 for charity. After that, however, some people decided that IC and OOC were the same, and refused to donate based on MKs IC actions."

 

You got called on the bolded part.  What happened to Hoo and Kait, from the digging into their background to the defaming photoshops that got passed around, to the contacting of Kait's ex was most decidedly OOC, and was a MAJOR contributing factor to the failure of your fundraising.  There's more of course (too many incidents to list here really), but that should be sufficient.

 

Stop the revisionism.  Sure you can get a goon squad to come in here and badger me all you want, it does not change the facts.

 

I did none of that, nor did I condone any of it. Also, the biological father of KaitlinK's daughter was never truly contacted in any form - an errant member of MK messaged him on facebook, never to receive a response.

 

You do know that the first fundraiser (For Doctors Without Borders) earned $4500, right?

 

It also took place in the midst of this ~*big scandal*~ you are claiming made it so nobody donated.

 

The second donation drive (for charity: water) raised $1760.

 

The third donation drive (for Pratham, a charity that brings education to impoverished countries), raised $595, with all but $5 coming from incredibly generous MK members.

 

 

If all that MK did was provide water to needy people, then I'd salute them as people who have their priorities in order.  If they did that and had a few unruly members, then that would be unfortunate but on balance they'd be good people.  But that's not the whole story, and the whole story wasn't pretty and you know it.

 

MK is a community filled with paradoxical people - the most vocal members (a minority of members of the community) tend to be the most vitriolic while also being some of the most generous. Even if they hate your guts, they will help out if it is a good cause. Even if they provide a bit of resistance at first.

 

 

And everything is in bounds if there are no lines.

 

What poor phrasing.

 

If anything and everything is in bounds because of who an individual chooses to associate with, does that mean they are precluded from the protection that you arbitrarily assign to the rest of the community in that little mind of yours?

 

Does that mean it would be perfectly fine if I were to be OOC attacked and harassed for my disabilities (Which I have always been very open with in many formats/facets)?

 

That's what it sounds like what you are saying.

 

That's just shameful that you would instantly attempt to ostracize an individual from this dying community on the basis of who they associate with for their preferences for playing a browser based game.

 

I bet if we were to actually talk for even 30 minutes, you would form a much different opinion regarding me than the one you currently hold.

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Keep up good work with charity donations, bros, appreciate you doing this annually. I'd definitely contribute substantial amount of money when I am in a good financial position. :>

 

I just wanted to say that it's asinine that people are derailing this meaningful and well-intended thread based on the OP's association with questionable, unique people, in which I am very humble to be part of! 

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Keep up good work with charity donations, bros, appreciate you doing this annually. I'd definitely contribute substantial amount of money when I am in a good financial position. :>

 

I just wanted to say that it's asinine that people are derailing this meaningful and well-intended thread based on the OP's association with questionable, unique people, in which I am very humble to be part of! 

 

Might do one sometime soonish. Haven't found the sweet spot for holding the donation drive yet.

 

 

I know enough to know I wouldn't put myself at risk by so much as sending cash in an envelope with no return address to bros or anyone else from MK.

 

Good thing that all of the donation drives have been held either through the charity directly (when they offer group fundraising pages) or through third party group fundraising pages (We have used firstgiving in the past) which send the money directly to the charity - all I receive is an email when a donation is received, which is useful for fun charts!

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Generalizing everyone under the stuff their alliance did wrong is a cool IC strategy, but outside of Cybernations Politix, society expect you to be grown up enough to identify your issues to the individual people actually responsible for causing them.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Biodad, the gift that keeps on giving.

 

Of late everywhere you turn, it shows up, rearing its ugly head, reminding us, how someone must have taken a drill to people's skulls and scrambled their brains till they started thinking that their actions were acceptable and clearly, just good old fashioned clean fun.

 

Oh and hey bros, sup?

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Biodad, the gift that keeps on giving.

 

Of late everywhere you turn, it shows up, rearing its ugly head, reminding us, how someone must have taken a drill to people's skulls and scrambled their brains till they started thinking that their actions were acceptable and clearly, just good old fashioned clean fun.

 

Oh and hey bros, sup?

 

I don't bring that incident up. If you would like to discuss it in private, however, I would be glad to.

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Late hi bros.


On the RL/OOC/IC/IG stuff that has been going on in this thread: you were the first one to bring it up, in the very first post of this thread that you created, to try cast a negative shadow over your IC/OOC/IDC "enemies", implying that they were the ones crossing the RL/game line:

After that, however, some people decided that IC and OOC were the same, and refused to donate based on MKs IC actions.

When called on that you then started playing the innocent and incredulous victim, a real beacon of virtue! Isn't it just sad?

What's next? Denying that you joked on biowarfare? That you incited the crowd to get more posts on the subject? That your only answer to my appeal to stop that stuff was to deride me for my forum reports? That you merged the two threads that at some point were created, while insulting one of the victims with a sex-based remark?
Did I forget something or is it all covered?

If I were you I'd never anymore joke or talk down to anyone on the subject of crossing the separation between RL and the game. Even if not genuinely hypocrite it will always sound like that, and I am afraid that it's a bit too late for you to complain. It's not "about the MK" or any other straw man: it's you.
Talk of just something else, instead, and you're OK as far as I am concerned.

Now without irony enjoy your come back, long or short as it may be, and good luck with it.
 
[hr]
EDIT
Upon re-reading what I wrote, and just for fairness and clarity: you didn't drive that, bros, and you didn't post anything even remotely near to the worse stuff. However, not only there wasn't zero stance of yours against it, or even just against the worse stuff - all we had and have is you deleting things to remove liability from yourself and your friends - but you actively participated into it, albeit with less zeal than others.

You are thus in no position to credibly preach or even just to joke to anyone on the subject of RL/IG abuse, and it's a travesty that you dare do so.

Edited by jerdge
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Late hi bros.


On the RL/OOC/IC/IG stuff that has been going on in this thread: you were the first one to bring it up, in the very first post of this thread that you created, to try cast a negative shadow over your IC/OOC/IDC "enemies", implying that they were the ones crossing the RL/game line:

When called on that you then started playing the innocent and incredulous victim, a real beacon of virtue! Isn't it just sad?

What's next? Denying that you joked on biowarfare? That you incited the crowd to get more posts on the subject? That your only answer to my appeal to stop that stuff was to deride me for my forum reports? That you merged the two threads that at some point were created, while insulting one of the victims with a sex-based remark?
Did I forget something or is it all covered?

If I were you I'd never anymore joke or talk down to anyone on the subject of crossing the separation between RL and the game. Even if not genuinely hypocrite it will always sound like that, and I am afraid that it's a bit too late for you to complain. It's not "about the MK" or any other straw man: it's you.
Talk of just something else, instead, and you're OK as far as I am concerned.

Now without irony enjoy your come back, long or short as it may be, and good luck with it.
 
[hr]
EDIT
Upon re-reading what I wrote, and just for fairness and clarity: you didn't drive that, bros, and you didn't post anything even remotely near to the worse stuff. However, not only there wasn't zero stance of yours against it, or even just against the worse stuff - all we had and have is you deleting things to remove liability from yourself and your friends - but you actively participated into it, albeit with less zeal than others.

You are thus in no position to credibly preach or even just to joke to anyone on the subject of RL/IG abuse, and it's a travesty that you dare do so.

 

Jerdge, I didn't post any of that. Nor did I condone it. I privately expressed my concerns both to MK gov and other parties involved. MK gov refused to do anything after they figured out they weren't able to be held liable in any way if Hoo were to go through with his hilarious threat of a lawsuit (which would've never worked)

 

I deleted nothing. Anything that was deleted was done by either the members or MK gov. I did not actively participate in it. Sorry that MK made fun of you, but they do that to everyone.

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Jerdge, I didn't post any of that. Nor did I condone it. I privately expressed my concerns both to MK gov and other parties involved. MK gov refused to do anything after they figured out they weren't able to be held liable in any way if Hoo were to go through with his hilarious threat of a lawsuit (which would've never worked)

 

I deleted nothing. Anything that was deleted was done by either the members or MK gov. I did not actively participate in it. Sorry that MK made fun of you, but they do that to everyone.

No actually, Jerdge summed up a lot of what I and many others were trying to say.

 

But before I rage any further about something so stupid that anyone over the age of 14 should know not to bring it to a fucking browser-based computer game, why do you find it "hilarious" that someone felt they were defamed OOC to the point that they consulted an attorney and considered bringing a RL lawsuit against people?  Is it amusing that people obsessed with a computer game would actually have contact with the ex-spouse of a former player to try to dig up dirt?  Because I don't find it fucking funny at all.  I find it sad and pathetic and I'm sorry that Hoo didn't file his lawsuit and force everyone in MK gov to hire an attorney and defend themselves in court.

 

You say over and over you tried to talk people out of things and perhaps doing worse.  If that is true, you've only making the case that all traces of MK should have been erased from the game, least they damage it even further than they already have, not justifying your participation in it, Herr Speer.

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No actually, Jerdge summed up a lot of what I and many others were trying to say.

 

But before I rage any further about something so stupid that anyone over the age of 14 should know not to bring it to a !@#$@#$ browser-based computer game, why do you find it "hilarious" that someone felt they were defamed OOC to the point that they consulted an attorney and considered bringing a RL lawsuit against people?  Is it amusing that people obsessed with a computer game would actually have contact with the ex-spouse of a former player to try to dig up dirt?  Because I don't find it !@#$@#$ funny at all.  I find it sad and pathetic and I'm sorry that Hoo didn't file his lawsuit and force everyone in MK gov to hire an attorney and defend themselves in court.

 

You say over and over you tried to talk people out of things and perhaps doing worse.  If that is true, you've only making the case that all traces of MK should have been erased from the game, least they damage it even further than they already have, not justifying your participation in it, Herr Speer.

 

It was humorous because he thought he could hold the admin of a website culpable for the actions of the members - which is contrary to federal law with regards to message boards/forums. At the most, he would've had to have attempted to subpeona the individual who paid for MKs hosting at the time (who lives in Sweden) to give up pertinent information, which would've been much more trouble than it would've been worth. When Hoo sent his... request, the way he acted with the request was also humorous. But in an abundance of caution, I strongarmed the MK gov at the time to move it to private forums or i'd delete the topic altogether.

 

No MK members were obsessed with the game, they just found it enjoyable through different avenues than other individuals. MK didn't want to dig up dirt by contacting the biological father of KaitlinK's daughter, they wished to express their support, which the members were thanked for by the father.

 

If Hoo had filed a lawsuit, it would've gone nowhere, as it would've been dismissed outright per the laws in his state - he was attempting to frame it as cyber-stalking, which has very specific regulations in California. What occurred did not even meet the bare minimum for such in the state of California, Texas (Where CN is based), or NJ (Where MK is hosted).

 

The first step of his lawsuit would've been to file a subpeona with our host to ask for the contact information for the individual who paid for the hosting at that time. Hoo and his attorney would've hit a roadblock then, as they would've had to have gotten a subpeona for a civil case in the US to a Swedish citizen & convince the individual in question not to just ignore it, because it's not like he could be extradited for it.

 

Hoo and his attorney would've also have had to have collected a list of every username who participated in the alleged harassment/defamation and stated in the subpeona to the individual who paid for the hosting that they wanted the information that the Mushroom Kingdom Forums had on those users.

 

The individual who paid for the hosting would've gone "I have no access to that information. Ask someone in gov."

 

Then Hoo would've had to have subpoenaed Cybernations for the IP addresses of myself and other members of MK gov. Admin probably would've complied after checking with his lawyer.

 

Then Hoo would only have an IP address. He would've had to have subpoenaed each of our ISPs individually, and the ISPs would've had to have made a decision and some would've been harder than others (college/university networks, other members were not in the US, etc.) then released the information for the account holder after notifying them. Then, he would've issued a subpoena to the account holder. In a few cases, it would've gone to people's parents or roommates, which would result in nothing, except probably the names of everyone else living with them. A new subpeona would have to be drafted with the proper individuals information in order for it to be binding.

 

To get to this point, Hoo would've wasted probably half a year of his time and probably ten thousand dollars+ in legal bills (for a good attorney).

 

Then once the proper individuals were subpoenaed for the information, they would've pointed to me, or provided the information themselves. If they did the former, I would've been able to claim immunity from being culpable for the actions of the members of the site before providing the attorney with the information.

 

Then guess what happens?

 

More subpoenas!

 

Of each and every IP address that each and every user involved used. I would've had to have supplied them with thousands of IP addresses. That is thousands of subpoenas.

 

The only person who would've hired a lawyer would've been Hoo, and he would've wasted his time and money for nothing.

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It was humorous because he thought he could hold the admin of a website culpable for the actions of the members - which is contrary to federal law with regards to message boards/forums. At the most, he would've had to have attempted to subpeona the individual who paid for MKs hosting at the time (who lives in Sweden) to give up pertinent information, which would've been much more trouble than it would've been worth. When Hoo sent his... request, the way he acted with the request was also humorous. But in an abundance of caution, I strongarmed the MK gov at the time to move it to private forums or i'd delete the topic altogether.

 

No MK members were obsessed with the game, they just found it enjoyable through different avenues than other individuals. MK didn't want to dig up dirt by contacting the biological father of KaitlinK's daughter, they wished to express their support, which the members were thanked for by the father.

 

If Hoo had filed a lawsuit, it would've gone nowhere, as it would've been dismissed outright per the laws in his state - he was attempting to frame it as cyber-stalking, which has very specific regulations in California. What occurred did not even meet the bare minimum for such in the state of California, Texas (Where CN is based), or NJ (Where MK is hosted).

 

The first step of his lawsuit would've been to file a subpeona with our host to ask for the contact information for the individual who paid for the hosting at that time. Hoo and his attorney would've hit a roadblock then, as they would've had to have gotten a subpeona for a civil case in the US to a Swedish citizen & convince the individual in question not to just ignore it, because it's not like he could be extradited for it.

 

Hoo and his attorney would've also have had to have collected a list of every username who participated in the alleged harassment/defamation and stated in the subpeona to the individual who paid for the hosting that they wanted the information that the Mushroom Kingdom Forums had on those users.

 

The individual who paid for the hosting would've gone "I have no access to that information. Ask someone in gov."

 

Then Hoo would've had to have subpoenaed Cybernations for the IP addresses of myself and other members of MK gov. Admin probably would've complied after checking with his lawyer.

 

Then Hoo would only have an IP address. He would've had to have subpoenaed each of our ISPs individually, and the ISPs would've had to have made a decision and some would've been harder than others (college/university networks, other members were not in the US, etc.) then released the information for the account holder after notifying them. Then, he would've issued a subpoena to the account holder. In a few cases, it would've gone to people's parents or roommates, which would result in nothing, except probably the names of everyone else living with them. A new subpeona would have to be drafted with the proper individuals information in order for it to be binding.

 

To get to this point, Hoo would've wasted probably half a year of his time and probably ten thousand dollars+ in legal bills (for a good attorney).

 

Then once the proper individuals were subpoenaed for the information, they would've pointed to me, or provided the information themselves. If they did the former, I would've been able to claim immunity from being culpable for the actions of the members of the site before providing the attorney with the information.

 

Then guess what happens?

 

More subpoenas!

 

Of each and every IP address that each and every user involved used. I would've had to have supplied them with thousands of IP addresses. That is thousands of subpoenas.

 

The only person who would've hired a lawyer would've been Hoo, and he would've wasted his time and money for nothing.

It's still not funny.  Your scenario is also pretty much out there too.  Finding the proper IPs wouldn't have even required shifting through your attempts to obstruct justice by throwing thousands of IP addresses at a lawyer either.  Could he have won a lawsuit?  Probably not even in California.  Could he made some people's lives a living hell if he wanted to?  Absolutely, which is really why many of those involved apologized to him privately.

 

But all that aside, you also are completely missing the point.

 

NONE of this should even be a topic of conversation in a browser-based computer game.  Ever.  Yet, it was.  Why was it?  Your friends, who insisted to poking and prodding at two players (not characters, real people) for "laughs", so that they could "win" the game some more, or out of some sense of twisted black knighting (no, not white knighting, that would imply good intentions).  If it wasn't driven by obsession, then certainly wasn't rational behavior for people claiming to be adults.

 

Stop rationalizing.

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It's still not funny.  Your scenario is also pretty much out there too.  Finding the proper IPs wouldn't have even required shifting through your attempts to obstruct justice by throwing thousands of IP addresses at a lawyer either.  Could he have won a lawsuit?  Probably not even in California.  Could he made some people's lives a living hell if he wanted to?  Absolutely, which is really why many of those involved apologized to him privately.

 

But all that aside, you also are completely missing the point.

 

NONE of this should even be a topic of conversation in a browser-based computer game.  Ever.  Yet, it was.  Why was it?  Your friends, who insisted to poking and prodding at two players (not characters, real people) for "laughs", so that they could "win" the game some more, or out of some sense of twisted black knighting (no, not white knighting, that would imply good intentions).  If it wasn't driven by obsession, then certainly wasn't rational behavior for people claiming to be adults.

 

Stop rationalizing.

 

It wouldn't have been obstruction of justice. A subpoena for such a case would most likely request all information on the users in question, which would result in thousands of IP addresses for something like 100 users (We figured it out at the time), as many users had dynamic IPs, and we kept a log of user IPs on the MK boards. Providing all of the information for each user wouldn't be obstruction. Not providing it would be.

 

He wouldn't have been able to make their lives a living hell without also inflicting that torture upon himself.

 

The incident occurred because certain members of MK found the statement by KK and Hoo to be a bit peculiar, so they looked to find news articles about it to see what was being left out/if anyone in the alliance could assist. Users then discovered that Hoo was not the biological father of KKs daughter. People in MK wished to figure out what was up with the biological father (i.e. why he wasn't mentioned in any news articles).

 

Let's put it in terms that you might understand. If MKs actions during this time were a D&D alignment, the members involved would've been Chaotic Good.

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So I guess the charity bit isn't the important part then?

 

This is CN, where everything is political and revolves around events that took place years ago.

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