FAN Announcement

[Saxplayer]

I think FAN is having fun with CN and that we shouldn't really question whether they want a more ecomonically advanced yellow or not, it's their alliance and they can attempt to take over yellow if they want.

[lonewolfe2015]

FAN is upset we didn't consult with them prior to making our decision. They aren't declaring on us at this time, although they aren't ruling it out next time if we vote in a policy which does not serve their nations judging by this post. That's basically what this boils down to.

 

FAN is aware the events are providing economic profit to their nations not presently purchasing nukes or under the ~4k infra mark depending on various nation building factors. tJL however has been up front from the start about our intentions with FAN. We will not be picking the policy that roleplays the best, we will be picking the policies that benefit others economically the best. In the future if FAN wishes to discuss this event without pulling out their guns they have sent a great diplomat to our forums who is doing all of the work for them in trying to communicate despite not being given all of the information he needs to do so with. FAN can make a case for why tJL or other yellow senators should have NOT boosted the economies of their various constituents in this situation. And I can only surmise that the argument to be made is one in which you will be purchasing nuclear weapons sometime within that 30 day window.

 

Since only Mackay has visited our forums, I'll leave that here to ensure the message is understood on both sides clearly. tJL is not here to do what FAN wants us to, we will gladly discuss events with you like normal people though. Unfortunately future discussions seem set to be done in back-alleyways with a loaded shotgun and a couple of hand grenades at the table, rather than at the bar with a couple of beers in hand.

Edited July 18, 2014 by lonewolfe2015

[BringMeTheHorizon]

FAN is more than welcome to vote for me as their third yellow senator. 

 

 

 

 

Presumably it was not this proposal that FAN took issue with, due to the fact that it basically just adds 3 income to everyone on yellow.

 

I'm not saying your math is wrong, but I'm not following it. Here is what I got: In order to test this theory I deleted a stadium. My taxes paid per citizen went from 178.61 to 174.66. => +3 happiness = $3.95 per citizen. 

 

If nuclear upkeep is 400k as you said (412.5k for me), we would need to make at least that to make it worth it. 

 

Therefore I would need 3.95x to be > 25% of 412,500 for this to be worth it for my nation where 'x' is the number of citizens. => x = 26107 citizens. 

 

Therefore any nation with less than 26,107 citizens would be adversely effected by this IFF they have full wonders.  

 

EDIT: Did my math above wrong, fixed now.  

 

Now looking at a nation with zero economic wonders I have the following givens (but 20 nukes for sake of argument): 

- 1 stadium deletion results in income going from 68.44 to 65.08. => 3.36

 

=> Following the above math, they would need 30,691 citizens to make this profitable.  Which is approximately 3k infrastructure with 3BR and full clinics/hospitals.  

 

EDIT: tl;dr So basically this screws over anyone under 3k infrastructure who has nukes on yellow, namely RIOT. 

 

 

 

 

This is so co-prosperous!

Edited July 18, 2014 by BringMeTheHorizon

[Freelancer]

Holding elected officials accountable ... what a concept, I wish it worked this way elsewhere ..

EDITED for spelling, posting with your phone bad k

Edited July 18, 2014 by Freelancer

[Groucho Marx]

 

I would love to hear why those proposals should have not passed.

I would love to hear how you can't understand a number of nations wouldn't benefit from them. 

[mpol777]

Since only Mackay has visited our forums, I'll leave that here to ensure the message is understood on both sides clearly. tJL is not here to do what FAN wants us to, we will gladly discuss events with you like normal people though. Unfortunately future discussions seem set to be done in back-alleyways with a loaded shotgun and a couple of hand grenades at the table, rather than at the bar with a couple of beers in hand.

 

Please don't take us the wrong way.  We always have shotguns and hand grenades on us.

[hartfw]

I would love to hear how you can't understand a number of nations wouldn't benefit from them. 

 

Yeah, considering one helps every single nation yet you called them out for both, lets save time and assume it would go over your head. 

 

Edit: Still for the sake of others:  At most this proposal hurts 3 (might only be 2) Fan nations, while helping 84.  The gains to those 84 are of of a considerable magnitude more than the potential loses for the 2, and it is not clear that the 2 will stay that low infra when they even collect.

 

Looking at Riot Society since they got singled out as it must hurt them, they have only 2 nations this could hurt, and either have enough nukes for it to hurt.  Meaning it is good for 18 of 18 in Riot Society.

 

Calling these 2 proposals stupid to vote for is a bold move.  

Edited July 18, 2014 by hartfw

[mattski133]

 

FAN is more than welcome to vote for me as their third yellow senator. 

 

 

This is so co-prosperous!

 

 

The timing could not have been worse for you considering you are rebuilding, but it makes more sense if you rebuild your infra before your nuke stockpiles.  And it makes a lot of sense for everyone else.

 

I would love to hear how you can't understand a number of nations wouldn't benefit from them. 

 

2 is a number.

[BringMeTheHorizon]

 

Yeah, considering one helps every single nation yet you called them out for both, lets save time and assume it would go over your head. 

 

Edit: Still for the sake of others:  At most this proposal hurts 3 (might only be 2) Fan nations, while helping 84.  The gains to those 84 are of of a considerable magnitude more than the potential loses for the 2, and it is not clear that the 2 will stay that low infra when they even collect.

 

Looking at Riot Society since they got singled out as it must hurt them, they have only 2 nations this could hurt, and either have enough nukes for it to hurt.  Meaning it is good for 18 of 18 in Riot Society.

 

Calling these 2 proposals stupid to vote for is a bold move.  

 

 

Well to be fair, we did lose 5 nations yesterday to a splinter, which hurt them the most which was roughly close to 25% of our AA. Even I have seen my collections go down, a negligible amount, but still have gone down. So if we count the 6 people out of 23 thats good enough for 25% in my eyes. Because those 5 people fall into the range that had enough nukes, and where in the right infra bracket for it to hurt. 

[hartfw]

 

 

Well to be fair, we did lose 5 nations yesterday to a splinter, which hurt them the most which was roughly close to 25% of our AA. Even I have seen my collections go down, a negligible amount, but still have gone down. So if we count the 6 people out of 23 thats good enough for 25% in my eyes. Because those 5 people fall into the range that had enough nukes, and where in the right infra bracket for it to hurt. 

 

I feel like this thread is turning into a basic course. Or just the usual post dumb stuff thread.

 

Your collection did not go down because of this. It boosted happiness, and raised your bills much less so. Unless you mean cause GRL is up.

 

Also, it is pretty stupid to say it hurts 5 guys who left you, making it 6 of 24, when only 2 of those guys are even on yellow, and oth actually gain from this.

 

Edit: However, if Chow starts buying up his nukes again, it can hurt 3 of 100 or so.  I don't want to come across unfair.

Edited July 18, 2014 by hartfw

[Neo Uruk]

Who the fuck cares? FAN didn't like it. They are reminding everyone that they reserve the right to do something about it.

[Lady Dakota]

mpol777, I could kiss you sometimes. Seriously though. 

[BringMeTheHorizon]

 

I feel like this thread is turning into a basic course. Or just the usual post dumb stuff thread.

 

Your collection did not go down because of this. It boosted happiness, and raised your bills much less so. Unless you mean cause GRL is up.

 

Also, it is pretty stupid to say it hurts 5 guys who left you, making it 6 of 24, when only 2 of those guys are even on yellow, and oth actually gain from this.

 

Edit: However, if Chow starts buying up his nukes again, it can hurt 3 of 100 or so.  I don't want to come across unfair.

 

 

Nah, you're right about the other nations, I didn't feel like checking their team. All I can say is that, since I started buying nukes again, during this senate proposal that went into affect, my collections have gone down. Also, it hurts any nation on RIOT buying nukes (except 2, who are not on yellow, but the 6 people in RIOT still rebuying nukes still are effected), " +25% nuclear weapon purchase cost and upkeep cost."  So to say that 18 out of 18 benefited from this is wrong, since it's costing us 25% more to buy, and we're missing 25% extra from nuke purchases, which RIOT is rebuying, out of our warchest, ( I guess we use collections differently but I digress) so it does indeed affect RIOT, and anyone buying nukes, because the happiness increase does not cover the amount of money we are spending extra on nukes, and the small upkeep amount extra. 

Edited July 18, 2014 by BringMeTheHorizon

[hartfw]

 

 

Nah, you're right about the other nations, I didn't feel like checking their team. All I can say is that, since I started buying nukes again, during this senate proposal that went into affect, my collections have gone down. Also, it hurts any nation on RIOT buying nukes (except 2, who are not on yellow, but the 6 people in RIOT still rebuying nukes still are effected), " +25% nuclear weapon purchase cost and upkeep cost."  So to say that 18 out of 18 benefited from this is wrong, since it's costing us 25% more to buy, and we're missing 25% extra from nuke purchases, which RIOT is rebuying, out of our warchest, ( I guess we use collections differently but I digress) so it does indeed affect RIOT, and anyone buying nukes, because the happiness increase does not cover the amount of money we are spending extra on nukes, and the small upkeep amount extra. 

 

Okay, technically you can make it hurt, restocking enough now.  Most of those nations have had plenty of time to restock before this, and *if* they were willing to wait until now because of war chest issues, should debate waiting longer instead of making the proposal hurt.  Even still that would leaves it under 10% of Fan and RS even if they lean into it that this is hurtful for. 

 

{Going from no nukes to nukes hurt you, regardless of this}

 

 

 

Also, I do feel like I should voice my support to Fan in the concept of hitting a senator or random related party for a vote you dislike.  I like this concept very much.

[The Pansy]

I'd personally like to congratulate admin on some well played drama. Well done good sir.

[killjoy123]

I'd personally like to congratulate admin on some well played drama. Well done good sir.

Praise be to admin

[Xavier Harkonnen]

I like your far right wing extremist t-shirt. Did you get that at AlexJones.com?

[Freelancer]

I like your far right wing extremist t-shirt. Did you get that at AlexJones.com?

 

That would be infowars.com/store .. as for your far right comment, tread lightly pal, some of us who are actually intelligent enough to understand the true ramifications of a socialist/ communist agenda and who are armed to the hilt may take offense and have that subpar third world country you rule turned into downtown Fallujah

Edited July 18, 2014 by Freelancer

[tayloj7]

I'm a little confused how is this not a declaration of war considering they've essentially nuked two members of another alliance and appear to be condoning the attacks? Anyways, interesting play by FAN...

[Freelancer]

I'm a little confused how is this not a declaration of war

Aggressive negotiation's .. nothing more, nothing less. 

[WorldConqueror]

That would be infowars.com/store .. as for your far right comment, tread lightly pal, some of us who are actually intelligent enough to understand the true ramifications of a socialist/ communist agenda and who are armed to the hilt may take offense and have that subpar third world country you rule turned into downtown Fallujah

you literally just confirmed the stereotype he was portraying you as

[Sephiroth]

Aggressive negotiation's .. nothing more, nothing less. 

I don't think I would take getting nuked as a sign of negotiation. With FAN's itchy trigger finger, I can see why they might feel such a proposal would have a negative overall effect for them. During war the benefit of increased of collections might not outweigh the increased bills and cost of nukes.

[Xavier Harkonnen]

 

That would be infowars.com/store .. as for your far right comment, tread lightly pal, some of us who are actually intelligent enough to understand the true ramifications of a socialist/ communist agenda and who are armed to the hilt may take offense and have that subpar third world country you rule turned into downtown Fallujah

 

Jarhead, eh? W'ere armed too, so come at me bro. You're not the only segment of a population that enjoys the pop and chatter of firearms. Either way, I sincerely doubt you know the definitions and applications of what Socialism or Communism is, and is not. 

[MitchellBade]

Sanctioning all of FAN is the only appropriate response

[Freelancer]

you literally just confirmed the stereotype he was portraying you as

How should I respond ??? THANK YOU ??

The one thing about us armed to the hilt people, we pretty much keep to ourselves and are basically nice folk .. until it's time not to be nice, calling me and my kind 'rightwing' doesn't sit well with me.

Have a nice day !

 

Edited July 18, 2014 by Freelancer