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There's none so blind as those who will not listen.


Mogar
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Over the past Six months or so, this community has had a divide wider than the grand canyon in it. This is something that has been festering and growing for years, every movement the hegemony forcing wider. There are obviously two very distinct groups, a venn diagram of sorts, the more full one filled with new players and those who were destroyed in the original world, the withering one filled with those either in the hegemony or supporters of it. A few in both, straddling worlds until a resolution is made.

 

Every single one of us is Stubborn, yes, even you. This entire game concept is about Collaboration, how much collaboration is there really though? What is the reason you RP? For me it's about good storytelling, and while it is fun to win, at what point does your own enjoyment become more important than anyone elses? that is the question every single one of us needs to ask ourselves, take a step back and ask, are you here to create or destroy?

 

There are a few players in this community who wish to do nothing but destroy, to win, but that's sort of a catch 22 isn't it? what happens when you are left in a dying world because quite simply nobody wishes to actually RP being stomped on any further? There are numerous(most probably) players of CNRP2 who want to simply RP a storyline and not feel threatened by TSI/UN/Vektor coming in and destroying their entire nation simply out of boredom. It should be a right to every single player to be able to RP in peace, and not be forced into an  so long as they are not breaking the two main rules, I personally have.

 

1) Intentionally being antagonistic to another nation, through IC threats or provocation

 

2) mass murder/genocide.

 

I will leave this up other players to decide if anything else should be added, or better wording chosen, as one of the core tenants that I believe makes CNRP2 such a stronger community is our willingness to discuss anything and everything. we have voted and changed numerous rules, simply in the past week, I expect this to continue so long as our community is thriving.

 

Tonight two of the more "Notorious" RPers joined our community and then instantly quit, due to the requirement of being voted in, when I asked him about it, he stated everyone should be treated equally, and I believe that is a fair opinion to have.

 

I'm not going to sit here and ask you to come into this thread and beg Triyun, I'm asking you to come here and express your willingness to not create a nation that will behave in the same manner as Tianxia has to the dozens of RPers who are quite happy in CNRP2, You can believe that you are being persecuted if you'd like, but there's dozens of us who have been persecuted for the past 5 years due to your hegemony. TSI strangled the life out of CNRP1, and many of us are fearful you will do the same to this new creation we have all come to thoroughly enjoy, due to there not being the ever present Sword of Damocles over our heads as was in your world.

 

 

Convince me why I should bother Triyun? Every day someone has another take on the rules. Every day someone attempts to use a clique to manipulate the rules so that at any point and time something completely implausible becomes plausible with no documentation in order to screw folks over. This is not a creative community, it is a competitive and destructive one. You are master of it with all your pals so its your sandbox. I'll leave you with the sand. I have better toys to play with.

You have worn this for years as a symbol of pride, you pushed someone so far they actually quit the game over your destruction of them, and it is not a unique case, perhaps after all this time you should reread it and consider how many other players have felt this level of frustration before due to your IC destruction of their nation, months or years of writing taken away simply because they are not as good at War RP as you are.

 

I do not believe you have ever really understood your position, for the past few years you have been craving to be taken down, just like the NPO was, a challenge to your empire, but you have worn the answer to most of our frustrations in your signature all along. We never had to play in your sandbox, we're on a beach, we can go to another part of the beach and have our own party, if you would like to join us, please, show us you are willing to not be the same destructive personality you have been as Tianxia.

 

I'm willing to listen, I'm willing to talk about the grievances you probably have with the new world, but you have to give others that same chance to air their own grievances against you, I want to fix this community, and have driven my friends from this RP up the wall crazy talking to them for the past few weeks, we can all play together, but it comes down to do you want a storyline or a hegemony? sometimes you cant have both. I take responsibility for helping cause this rift in the first place, you have had anger towards your hegemony for the past 3 years, it boiled over once when you were about to be removed from the map, I genuinely wish you could listen to those who are telling you what you are doing that is creating the tension and anger that has been spiraling and dividing our community.

 

It is my opinion you are not a horrible person, you are just Ender, you win, completely. Please, prove to us you can play in our sandbox without going back to kicking over our sand castle.

Edited by Mogar
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And not a single thing you've listed has not been done here in some way or form in the two months CNRP2 has existed.
 
Yes he was a all-around bad person in CNRP1. He lead to CNRP2 being made. However we have limits in place now to prevent that via Caps. 
 
You claim he kept people barred from the game, but does two wrongs make a right?
 
EDIT: Keep in mind no one can say they were chased from CNRP1 by him more than myself. He's destroyed 12 of my nations. Chased me from the game for several month hiatus's several times. However I won't sit here and blindly say no he can't play with me because I don't like him OOCly. People change, rules change. They have. If the community here does what they did in CNRP1 and cower from him, well then it's all of our own faults. A hegemony is forming none-the-less in CNRP2. Look at this world war that almost sparked off. I am not going to sit here and say he can't play when he can roleplay adequately and well. If he breaks a rule, deal with it via GM. If he conforms a hegemony and people flock to him, handle it ICly. It's no one else's but our fault if a hegemony takes place from his joining. Many of the people in CNRP2 were part of his hegemony and turned on him once this community took off. In my eyes those people are just as guilty.
 
Mogar you've already told me that Me and Tywin were similar to them and have made people leave the game already. I don't see that, but you are entitled to your opinion. I am just saying as his worst prey Triyun might have had, I will not permanently bar someone from the game.

Edit2: 

You have worn this for years as a symbol of pride, you pushed someone so far they actually quit the game over your destruction of them, and it is not a unique case, perhaps after all this time you should reread it and consider how many other players have felt this level of frustration before due to your IC destruction of their nation, months or years of writing taken away simply because they are not as good at War RP as you are.


See: Tywin Lannister

Edited by Rotavele
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I would vote for him, should he still be given one, if you are trying to compare the systematic destruction of dozens of players to tywin's consistent attempts of abusing every single rule, it is not at all the same.

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We didn't bar Triyun. He never waited for his vote. That's slightly different. My neck is on the block. I personally am not afraid of that rule and if he follows the rules of the community, keeps in line with the structures being generated to sustain the global balance and prevent someone from running amok, neither should he.

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Well we could create coherent rules that reduce the impact of NS while separating wargaming from roleplay. As long as wargaming is the same as roleplay you will forever have an inferior class of players retconning and attempting to ban or exclude the superior class of players.

The solution is fixed assets and the assumption everyone is going to run out of troops and be forced to reroll at some point.

Edited by Tywin Lannister
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Well we could create coherent rules that reduce the impact of NS while separating wargaming from roleplay. As long as wargaming is the same as roleplay you will forever have an inferior class of players retconning and attempting to ban or exclude the superior class of players.

The solution is fixed assets and the assumption everyone is going to run out of troops and be forced to reroll.

how about you stop trying to game the system and just write a story?

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Well we could create coherent rules that reduce the impact of NS while separating wargaming from roleplay. As long as wargaming is the same as roleplay you will forever have an inferior class of players retconning and attempting to ban or exclude the superior class of players.

The solution is fixed assets and the assumption everyone is going to run out of troops and be forced to reroll at some point.

 

You do realize that they saw us as the superior class, but the GMs were on their side?

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how about you stop trying to game the system and just write a story?


Why not do both? If the rules were properly written, you wouldnt need game mods everywhere, enforcement would be minimal and strictly related to wargaming. Let people roleplay whatever they want.

Remember Baghdad Bob? If you have a concrete system of rules it will be possible to know which side is winning despite roleplay/propaganda.
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how about you stop trying to game the system and just write a story?

 

 

Why not do both? If the rules were properly written, you wouldnt need game mods everywhere, enforcement would be minimal and strictly related to wargaming. Let people roleplay whatever they want.

Remember Baghdad Bob? If you have a concrete system of rules it will be possible to know which side is winning despite roleplay/propaganda.

 

To be fair he's right. People who opposed Tywinn manipulated/gamed the rules just as well to get him wiped. You could of handled it ICly like the initial GM ruling until you noticed the numbers, and on whose side those numbers favored.

 

 

You deployed almost half your troops in the baltic bro come on. You would have had possibly 200000 enemy troops all over Russia.

 
IIRC the rules says that he couldn't have done that because he wouldn't have enough to defend his lands.
Edited by Rotavele
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Everyone simply heed my advice. They will make it about Tywin.. or them.. or how hard they were done by by the rules we all must adhere to. Disregard that distraction entirely. It is the only way they will stop. The only way they will figure out it is not about them, is to not let it be about them. Let them dream that it is about them if they so desire.

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This thread is not about Tywin. Take that !@#$ elsewhere.

 

No its about Triyun. How Triyun did people like the community did her with Tywin.

 

Everyone simply heed my advice. They will make it about Tywin.. or them.. or how hard they were done by by the rules we all must adhere to. Disregard that distraction entirely. It is the only way they will stop. The only way they will figure out it is not about them, is to not let it be about them. Let them dream that it is about them if they so desire.

 

Then don't make it relative. Triyun's victims always complained he violated the rules. The community did the same thing as they are doing here. The funny part is that here Tywin had plenty of numbers on his side, but the GMs were not.

Edited by Rotavele
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Considering part of the OP indirectly refers to me...

 

You believe yourself one of the "notorious two" I hate to tell you and Rota this.. you weren't the two. Your narcissism shows in your ignorance that you couldn't think outside of your duet, but I digress. This conversation between us is not useful, it will not continue.

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You believe yourself one of the "notorious two" I hate to tell you and Rota this.. you weren't the two. Your narcissism shows in your ignorance that you couldn't think outside of your duet, but I digress. This conversation between us is not useful, it will not continue.


I was talking about some other stuff in the OP.
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Im convinced at this point that the approach for CNRP2 has simply lead to the samy sort of oligarchy that the leadership of CNRP1 is accused of, except here it is disguised as democracy. But it is a democracy which, like the "Republic of Hawaii" which overthrow the Queen, limits political power to a small minority who is part of that victim clique who were either too small or too incompetent to survive. Thats not to say all the grievances were wrong, but they are certainly used as an excuse for the conduct of this ruling class of whiners and retconners.

CNRP1 is hegemonic IC, and not politically dynamic. This is due to the rules favoring the largest, most effective players.

CNRP2 is hegemonic OOC, and not politically dynamic. This is due to poorly written rules and a "democracy" requiring excessive "interpretation" by game mods (one of which is self declared).

The solution is simple: we kill the batman we create a system that promotes instability, and therefore, a lack of hegemony IC or OOC. This can be accomplished by eliminating "canon roleplay" and instead allowing all to participate and roleplay however they like.

The map would be determined by limited wargaming during roleplay disputes and would be the sole determinant of CNRP3 objective reality. The wargame system would favor defenders while expecting aggressors to do their research. It would also level the playing field through a points system. It woukd require land grabs to be backed by teeth and for at least a 1/100 soldier/civilian ratio be upheld in occupied territories. However, holding populous land might have benefits as well, such as allowing for force replenishment when you lost battles.

If you want a truly dynamic, unstable and thus anti-hegemonic environment, you have to remove the potential for hegemony both IC and OOC.

Edited by Tywin Lannister
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You are more than welcome to attempt to design and implement your own system and see if others are interested in it. It's been done many times over, but not often with great success. You are right that we all play differently. Some styles of play simply will not mesh. We have rules that the community in CNRP 2 have forged that we expect for all to follow. We.. the plurality.. have shaped that world to our collective will and how we expect people to behave and in such a way we expect to sustain and maintain balance. It's not a perfect system, few are. Rather than working with the plurality, you chose to directly move against it.. a failing move every time.

 

That said, I'd like to see what you come up with for your own system, but if you're not going to follow this system and attempt to change it to suit your whim from within simply because not enough of us agree with you, it's not going to work. You are basically beating your head against a wall. I look forward to seeing what you propose and create. We have chosen our path. You haven't accepted that. You have had your vote, but you were in the minority.. usually a minority.. of one.. or two. And then you contested the will of the GMs that we appointed when they enforced those rules. I'm sorry we didn't agree with you, but it's just not working.

Edited by Maelstrom Vortex
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I somewhat expected Triyun to DoE sooner or later in this RP, following that it was said people no longer get kicked out like before. But given the system is still in place, you expect him to want to be here? I don't. It's a waste of time and even if you say you'd vote for him... similar declarations of support had pretty much zero bearing on my vote. You'll kick him, the second he's not going to just play nice, regardless of what reason he might have to do so. Mogar, you say you don't want to RP while the sword of Damocles is hanging over your head, yet you expect Triyun to do so?

 

There are limits in place, in terms of quantity and quality of his hard power. He isn't the overwhelming force he is in CNRP. To say he'll recreate the hegemony is nonsense, unless the community allows for it by inaction or support, because quite frankly, nothing prevents you from creating an overwhelming coalition. It's quite frankly a terrible idea that there's a vote on every 50k+ nation, after all the limits that are already in place, because quite frankly, this is no longer a vote on removing people that are a threat, but removing people you don't like.

 

And seeing this, I personally find it ridiculous that people tell my person that I could rejoin anytime and that CNRP2 has gotten any better, when the community that awaits me is the community that kicked me out first time and which did little to nothing to give me reason I'd not be similarly wasting my time with a second run. There's so little reason to bother for people like us, regardless of what we RP.

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