Limitless Nexus Recognition of Hostilities

[denkimon]

 

Well keep in mind I only became aware of the situation approximately 5 hours ago. Methrage has had very little time to absorbe my warnings.

 

And also keep in mind this is a guy that has been aid-scamming and deserting for 4-5 years now *with the same nation.*

 

If you did not know this about him, you did not do due diligence. Join the club,etc, but please at least take responsibility here. It's not like you could have done anything approximating a background check and failed to find problems. No, not at all. You (in plural, the alliance as a whole) either failed to do due diligence here, or you knowingly admitted a serial aid-scammer and serial deserter.

 

Just for the record, you failed at due diligence (never twigged to his past) or you knew this jackasses past and just like every other prior alliance you saw the positives and blinded yourself to the negatives?  Which is it?

And the same cannot be said for Methrage?

 

Stonewall attacked us. We were dealing with our mistake.

 

Methrage steps in barking orders at us about our own affairs.

 

Now Methrage attacks us.

 

How can you even levy blame on Kashmir?

[Sephiroth]

 

In the meantime, enough with the spin, lets fight! 

Quoting this for emphasis, enough with the spin. Lets fight. :war:

[Kilroy]

I offered you guys large sums of money to let him go, when it was made clear you wanted to attack him instead; I offered large sums to delay his punishment. When you guys didn't want that, I even allowed you guys to continue your 2 wars against him and we seemingly had an agreement. Then suddenly you ignore negotiations and do something in complete contradiction. You messed up.

You accepted stoney into your alliance and insisted on keeping him even after we explained all the trouble he caused. Yet we're the bad guys? I would love to have some of what you are smoking. You can't pay the prison to let you out early if you murder someone. Bribery doesn't work on us. You can't paint us as the bad guys here. You're the one harboring a fugitive. You're the one escalating things. You're the one who doesn't seem to understand why we're upset. I get it. You don't like Neo Uruk for whatever reason. You've allowed your hatred for one guy to cause you to get in over your head and now you feel you have to save face. Just admit you made an oopsie, cut him loose and walk away. Or don't and suffer the consequences. We're not the ones looking for a war. We just want stoney to pay for his crimes against us. After that we don't really give two squirts of piss what he does.

[denkimon]

Quoting this for emphasis, enough with the spin. Lets fight. :war:

This is what you wanted from the start.

 

Now you have it.

 

Hooray you.

[The Pansy]

I think Methrage would have seen it that during those 16 hours as a sign of good faith, no actions would have been taken, until he was given an answer from Kashmir.
To the best of my knowledge, Kashmirs answer on that fate was the next declaration of war, which Methrage has taken as an insult, and acted as he has.

That's what I am getting from this timeline, anyway. Correct me if I am wrong.

Can anyone confirm/deny this for me please and thank you?

[WorldConqueror]

Can anyone confirm/deny this for me please and thank you?

Pretty sure Kashmir has said a few times that they were still deliberating during that 16 hours, so it would seem that the war dec was not an answer but a continuation of stonewall's status as an active target until a resolution was reached.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

And the same cannot be said for Methrage?

 

 

No, that is exactly the point.

 

Any excuses that cover Kashmir here also cover LN.

 

If we are going to levy a penalty for failing due diligence in recruitment, fine.

 

Both parties are guilty. Equal reps and let's call this a day.

[Sephiroth]

Can anyone confirm/deny this for me please and thank you?

It is true if you're asking from my point of view. I expected during that 16 hours no new attacks would happen. I even told SirWilliam I wanted a response faster, as I didn't want to risk seeing more attacks while I'm waiting on a response. Eventually I told him I'll give him the 16 hours, since in good faith I expected him to work towards deescalation and for them not to start new wars. When I contacted him on IRC, I was trying to confirm our agreement was in place on no new attacks and trying to urge him to inform his members of the deal, since going by some members postings on OWF they were saying they were going to attack any LN nations in range, which was in contradiction with what we were talking about in the embassy.

 

 

 

<Methrage>

You available for a quick chat?

 

<Methrage>

"So you know, War Jesus has received no orders to limit our operations. There's a difference between 'rogue' and 'autonomous'. Your clan of baby seals can hide in peace mode all they want, but if Jack and I are in range, they will find themselves clubbed"

 

<Methrage>

your alliance member is saying he will attack any of our nations which game mechanics will allow

 

<Methrage>

this contradicts the deal I thought we had on the ceasefire

 

<Methrage>

so can you clarify the situation?

 

<SirWilliam>

he shouldn't

 

<SirWilliam>

although having money funnelled to stonewall doesn't exactly show a desire to keep this from escalating ;)

 

<Methrage>

What if I just get one aid package to him, so he put up a little more of a fight against rey?

 

<Methrage>

you have two nations on him

 

<Methrage>

also are you going to notify your nations of the deal and is it in place?

 

<Methrage>

if we're in open war and that deal isn't valid, I need to know

 

<Methrage>

Going to watch the new game of thrones episode in a bit, so I would like to get to the bottom of this fast

 

<Methrage>

need to know if I need to be on for update or not :P

 

<SirWilliam>

a ceasefire with stonewall following this round of wars is in place, preliminarily. kashmir considers no other member of LN - save paulthewall if he followed stonewall over - to be an enemy

 

<Methrage>

so that means no Kashmir nation has any authority to declare new wars to contradict that, or they will be considred a rogue?

 

<Methrage>

what about this "I'm willing to push for a ceasefire after this round as well as a standing order for no additional wars to be declared on LN (whether stonewall or not)."

 

<SirWilliam>

i have not at present personally authorized any additional attacks

 

<SirWilliam>

the above pertains to the end of this round of wars

 

<Methrage>

So there is a standing order for no additional wars to declared on LN (whether stonewall or not)?

 

<Methrage>

can you notify this Conrad guy of our deal?

 

<SirWilliam>

give me 16 hours to clarify with my membership before i commit to anything with you. don't want to misspeak or appear to be lying to you

 

<SirWilliam>

i can assure you that, personally speaking, i am looking to eventually end things with stonewall and his clan

 

<Methrage>

I would really appeciate it if this could be clarified before update. I don't know why some of members are peace mode, but I would like to tell them to get out and not risk more wars starting between us as a result

 

<Methrage>

but if you need 16 hours, I'll give it to you

 

<Methrage>

as I trust you will act in good faith and war between us will not be neccecary, as I would rather think of Kashmir as friends than enemies

 

<Methrage>

I'm allowing you guys to get your wars done on stonewall, since he wrong you when he wasn't limitless nexus and you are justified in seeking your justice. Just as I am justified in seeking mine against Neo Uruk

 

<SirWilliam>

i figured 16 to cover differing timezones (16 will be 12 pm tmw which will be around when i'll be waking up)

 

<Methrage>

so I hope everything can be worked out and you guys don't get in the way of us punishing an Enemy of Nexus

 

<Methrage>

and this really is about you guys seeking justice against someone who was an Enemy of Kashmir before joining Limitless Nexus

Edited June 17, 2014 by Methrage

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Looks to me like they are pissed at stonewall14 (they got my sympathy on that) and he looking to take it out on you.

 

I told you this guy is bad news, just confirm that for me publicly if you please?

 

They took advantage of CN norms when they recruited him. They were fools, it sucked. You then took advantage of CN norms yourself.

 

It's gonna suck for you too if you think you are getting any loyalty, but that is your problem and I give you the respect to trust you to figure that out as !@#$ proceeeds.

 

I am not going to let Kashmir or anyone else do that to you without doing that to me at the same time. It's not a lot but it is what I can give you and it is yours.

 

-Sig

[The Pansy]

While I don't agree with Methrages tactics of jumping in with both feet before furthering diplomacy, I can see where he has come to his conclusion.
I fully understand Kashmirs decision to chase their Rogue, and believe in their right to do so, I can only say that the minor slip in courtesy has led here.
I hope you all have a fun and fruitful fight, and I thank you for filling in the blanks for this old man.

Edited June 17, 2014 by The Pansy

[WorldConqueror]

You guys are just being intentionally obtuse at this point, those logs disprove Methrage's whole position. Esp. this part:

<Methrage>

So there is a standing order for no additional wars to declared on LN (whether stonewall or not)?


<Methrage>

can you notify this Conrad guy of our deal?


<SirWilliam>

give me 16 hours to clarify with my membership before i commit to anything with you. don't want to misspeak or appear to be lying to you

[Sephiroth]

You guys are just being intentionally obtuse at this point, those logs disprove Methrage's whole position. Esp. this part:
 

I agreed to the 16 hours only on the assumption he wouldn't allow more attacks during that time, as he said himself he wasn't authorizing any. He never said anything about his members having authority to declare new wars at will while we were still in the middle of negotiations.

[The Pansy]

You guys are just being intentionally obtuse at this point, those logs disprove Methrage's whole position. Esp. this part:
 

To be honest WC, I am not being obtuse, I am merely trying to see where Methrage is coming from, as I have mentioned, I don't agree with his styling, and believe wholeheartedly in Kashmirs right to chase their rogue. I can just see that the lack of the courtesy "look, we are going to carry on hitting with another" has pushed Meths buttons and led to this.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

You guys are just being intentionally obtuse at this point, those logs disprove Methrage's whole position. Esp. this part:
 

 

Actually that supported his position, it did not weaken it.

 

Sir William did not promise what Meth wanted, but did indicate he thought it would come through.

 

It did not come through. Fine. Status quot ante.

 

You are pissed at stonewall 14. So am I. but at the moment he has been accepted as a member of a legit alliance and so you are just going to have to simmer your arse down and be patient.

 

Just as I will do.

[Sephiroth]

Also with my comment on needing to know, so I would know if I need to be on for update; I was making it pretty clear (without threatening him directly) I would take further attacks to mean we are in an open state of war and respond as such.

[WorldConqueror]

I agreed to the 16 hours only on the assumption he wouldn't allow more attacks during that time, as he said himself he wasn't authorizing any. He never said anything about his members having authority to declare new wars at will while we were still in the middle of negotiations.

 
He said authorized, not authorizing. There was no agreement on new wars, that was where the 16 hours to consult came in.
 

To be honest WC, I am not being obtuse, I am merely trying to see where Methrage is coming from, as I have mentioned, I don't agree with his styling, and believe wholeheartedly in Kashmirs right to chase their rogue. I can just see that the lack of the courtesy "look, we are going to carry on hitting with another" has pushed Meths buttons and led to this.

 
I was referring to Methrage and Sigrun with that, I do get what you're saying. And I agree that he was probably annoyed to see another war declared. But for him to present it as though Kashmir reneged on anything by doing so is in direct contradiction with the logs he posted. SirWilliam proposed a ceasefire to begin after this round of wars, and when pressed for an immediate promise of no new wars stated that he needed 16 hours to consult the alliance, there was no agreement in place.
 

Actually that supported his position, it did not weaken it.
 
Sir William did not promise what Meth wanted, but did indicate he thought it would come through.
 
It did not come through. Fine. Status quot ante.
 
You are pissed at stonewall 14. So am I. but at the moment he has been accepted as a member of a legit alliance and so you are just going to have to simmer your arse down and be patient.
 
Just as I will do.

No, Methrage preempted resolution by deciding to declare war because his feelings were hurt that a third war was declared on stonewall.

[The Pansy]

Fair enough WC, my bad.... been a while since I have been in these halls, taking a little catching up

[Sigrun Vapneir]

 No, Methrage preempted resolution by deciding to declare war because his feelings were hurt that a third war was declared on stonewall.

 

I disagree. Kashmir pre-empted resolutiong by deciding to declare war prematurely.

 

I have no interest in humiliatiting them for any reason, I have no interest in dragging this on any longer than absolutely necessary.

 

But Kashmir needs to accept their fair share of the blame here. If they insist on hitting my treaty partner as a substitute for taking responsibility for their own mistakes, we will have a problem.

 

Let me be very clear - this is not a threat. Kashmir has no one in range to me so I could not threaten if I wanted to, and I dont.

 

But anyone that tells you I will sit by quietly while methrage is humiliated for PRECISELY the same crap the big alliances get away with day in and day out, they are not just a liar, they are a fool

 

That will not happen.

 

Push war if you must but be warned - you can start one anytime you want, but ending one is a lot more complicated.

 

Would be much more logical to just keep talking and figure something out, would it not?

[berbers]

Taking Rey out of the picture, we have a nuke rogue who was owned by Kashmir, we have an AA taking said nuke rogue in under their protection and negotiating for his peace with Kashmir.

 

Some thoughts:

 

• Alot of AA's don't take people at war into their AA until finding out all the facts and negotiating an end to the war
• Stonewall is no ordinary rogue and did a whole lot of damage to Kashmir and has used this exact same tactic on multiple occasions to further his roguery
• Methrage is using Stonewall to fufill a personal vendetta and gave him aid for said purpose
• Stonewall has no doubt used that aid to continue fighting Kashmir as well as Rey

Sorry Meth, Kashmir was 100% within their right to keep hammering SW while in negotiations and you were wrong to feed him aid for any reason while he was being attacked.  Best thing for you to do was find another person to hit Rey, then you could have avoided the entire mess.

 

Also, I owe Kashmir a bunch of money and they decided it should go to Rey, you're cool with that right?

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Taking Rey out of the picture, we have a nuke rogue who was owned by Kashmir, we have an AA taking said nuke rogue in under their protection and negotiating for his peace with Kashmir.

 

Some thoughts:

 

• Alot of AA's don't take people at war into their AA until finding out all the facts and negotiating an end to the war
• Stonewall is no ordinary rogue and did a whole lot of damage to Kashmir and has used this exact same tactic on multiple occasions to further his roguery
• Methrage is using Stonewall to fufill a personal vendetta and gave him aid for said purpose
• Stonewall has no doubt used that aid to continue fighting Kashmir as well as Rey

Sorry Meth, Kashmir was 100% within their right to keep hammering SW while in negotiations and you were wrong to feed him aid for any reason while he was being attacked.  Best thing for you to do was find another person to hit Rey, then you could have avoided the entire mess.

 

Also, I owe Kashmir a bunch of money and they decided it should go to Rey, you're cool with that right?

 

I dont speak for Meth but if you owe Rey some money and want to send it now I believe that is your right.

 

Might be a slightly douchy thing to do, depending on the sitch and all, but yeah... send him all the money you want. We wont mess with you, as long as your side gives us the same courtesy.

[Stonewall14]

War Jesus is second only to Baby Jesus in my heart.


Actually, custom is to look into a nation's past before you accept him. Also, my warchest is higher than Stonewall's. He's near bill-lock by now I imagine.

Thank You for your 2 million donation this AM...I have put it to good use....o/

[mattski133]

I agreed to the 16 hours only on the assumption he wouldn't allow more attacks during that time, as he said himself he wasn't authorizing any. He never said anything about his members having authority to declare new wars at will while we were still in the middle of negotiations.

 

this is the problem you encounter when you believe you are dictating the policy of another alliance.  we never gave up the authority to declare wars on stonewall as he was a nuclear rogue.  changing his AA does not and has never wiped his (or anyone's) slate clean and until you secured his release we had every right to continue war against him.  sirwilliam simply never gave this release.

 

because you disagree with that (for whatever reason, ego, i presume) and believe you can simply tell us what we can and cannot do*, you have declared war on us for pursing this rogue.

 

June 15, 10:30 PM

...I hope you guys can see stonewall14 is a vital part of our alliance, in order to allow us more NS coverage in who we can strike and he's been helpful with recruiting. We would still be close to a 1 man AA without him. So as a friend, I'm asking as a personal favor you guys let him off the hook.

I've already sent an aid offer Bernkastel to help get across the message we are not your enemy. *I've never been your enemy and stonewall no longer is. I hope we can work something out and maybe even become allies. We have more momentum in growing our membership than ever before with stonewall joining and I hope you guys can view it what is good for me, is also good for you. Also him joining my alliance will keep him out of trouble and causing you further problems. He is also remorseful for all the nations he attacked in your alliance except the one who provoked him and is no longer playing. So he has remorse, is a valuable asset to my team, I think I'm friends with many of you at least. So can this be resolved?

 

This was the first post in the Limitless Nexus Embassy on our forums, where it was laid out to us that we are great friends of Methrage and that we could only benefit from his harboring of the guy who has been nuking us for months.  That we've never been methy's enemy (we've personally fought this guy for months if not years in GOONS) and that stonewall isn't our enemy anymore either!  In fact, we could be allies.  You must have felt that way because of the hopping embassy you had just created that day.  I can't speak for the rest of the government, but personally I had hoped never to interact with you in any way, ever again. 

 

can you imagine my disappoinment!

 

I believe the first response was pretty clear and concise and laid out a groundwork for how negotiations would proceed.

 

Those who harbour our enemies may be counted among them. Choose your words wisely, Persian.

 

needless to say you did not and the very next post revealed your true intent.

 

Master Hakai and SirWilliam are both stand up guys who I respect, which is the only reason I came to talk. Although after speaking with some of your other gov, such Bernkastel who made clear no kind gestures mean anything here; I've realized coming here was a waste of time.

Good luck to all of you in bettering yourselves.

 

charmed our socks right off.

Edited June 17, 2014 by mattski133

[Franz Ferdinand]

Riot Society did what we could to resolve the Kashmir / Stonewall14 issue, yet they were adamant that they wanted to get their punitive damages from what Stonewall14 had done to their nations and weren't willing to budge. We did what we could, but at the end of the day, we weren't able to end it. On a side note, Riot Society wishes Kashmir all the best along with Los Pollos Hermanos. Have fun guys!

[Sephiroth]

 

I dont speak for Meth but if you owe Rey some money and want to send it now I believe that is your right.

 

Might be a slightly douchy thing to do, depending on the sitch and all, but yeah... send him all the money you want. We wont mess with you, as long as your side gives us the same courtesy.

This is correct. I'm not going to hunt you down if you send an aid package to Rey. I'd rather you didn't, but whatever. Its someone's choice if they want to waste money on a lost cause.

 

Also I really appreciate the support Sigrun. Dealing with Limitless Nexus was going to be difficult for them. Dealing with Limitless Aesir, well things just got a lot worse for them. :D

Edited June 17, 2014 by Methrage

[Sephiroth]

 
He said authorized, not authorizing. There was no agreement on new wars, that was where the 16 hours to consult came in.
 
 
I was referring to Methrage and Sigrun with that, I do get what you're saying. And I agree that he was probably annoyed to see another war declared. But for him to present it as though Kashmir reneged on anything by doing so is in direct contradiction with the logs he posted. SirWilliam proposed a ceasefire to begin after this round of wars, and when pressed for an immediate promise of no new wars stated that he needed 16 hours to consult the alliance, there was no agreement in place.
 

No, Methrage preempted resolution by deciding to declare war because his feelings were hurt that a third war was declared on stonewall.

Your posting is so bad, I tend to skip over them and don't like reading what you have to say. Although I will clarify it was them who preempted resolution by declaring new wars on Limitless Nexus, when the agreement in progress was they would not do that.