Limitless Nexus Clarification of Policy

[Sephiroth]

What if DS let him in anyway? Would you still war with Rey?

Now pretend Rey is Stonewall and you are Kashmir...aaaaaand GO!

The war with Kashmir could of been over yesterday and Neo Uruk off the Enemy of Nexus list, had that been Neo Uruk's desire.

 

Also I would not declare on Rey while he is a member of DS, as I would speak with Hershey about it instead. Also I really doubt Hershey will let Rey back in, regardless of whether Rey is an Enemy of Nexus or not. There is a reason Hershey has no tech himself, its because he is shipping it out to the Doombirds. What use would Rey be to Doom Squad if he's unwilling to send out his tech?

[Walshington]

To be honest I'm actually a little embarrassed Denkimon is slightly edging me out in the damage, although me and him are making a fun competition out of it to see who will edge the other out by the end of the war.

 

Denk's a quality opponent.  Izakaya are on the no target list, though.

 

You're doing an amazing job against Lazarus Long, who hasn't logged in yet! And it's good to know you're still ahead of mattski after the update quad, would be embarrassing otherwise UGH.

 

Oh sure, NOW he doesn't log in.  Where was this inattention back in December when I could have used it?

[Walshington]

Cursed double posting Gin Fingers. 

Edited June 19, 2014 by Walshington

[Sephiroth]

 

Denk's a quality opponent.  Izakaya are on the no target list, though.

Its not often I fight a worthy opponent, but Denk definitely is among them. He's always on at update and knows what he's doing. Somehow he seems to be blocking all my cruise missiles as well.

[Beauty]

I still don't understand why Rey and Kashmir have this thing about Nuke Damage doesn't count.

 

The Infra/Land/Tech that is taken from nukes to them is apparently regained by them some how?

 

Like i've responded the last 4 times this is used. "A rose is a rose is a rose"

 

The infra that is destroyed from nukes, is still infra missing. The damage sustained from nukes is just as irreplaceable as the damage from CMs, GAs, and Bombing Runs.

[Master Hakai]

I still don't understand 

Nailed it

[Beauty]

Nailed it

 

It's true I do not understand about the nuke damage.

 

To be fair to you as trying to paint me as someone who doesn't understand this war either, I honestly don't. I haven't really read much about it. Just knowing your previous actions and from what I've read Kashmir tried to exploit smaller unaligned nations and got kicked in the teeth for it again.

[Master Hakai]

 

It's true I do not understand about the nuke damage.

 

To be fair to you as trying to paint me as someone who doesn't understand this war either, I honestly don't. I haven't really read much about it. Just knowing your previous actions and from what I've read Kashmir tried to exploit smaller unaligned nations and got kicked in the teeth for it again.

No you just don't understand things in general. But if you must know, we are pursuing stonewall for stealing aid and forcing a new nation out of the game. And you've been his head cheerleader so far!

 

e: When did we get kicked in the teeth for exploiting smaller unaligned nations? Can you cite an example of this ever happening, or did you just make it up because it sounds neat?

Edited June 19, 2014 by Master Hakai

[Beauty]

No you just don't understand things in general. But if you must know, we are pursuing stonewall for stealing aid and forcing a new nation out of the game. And you've been his head cheerleader so far!

 

e: When did we get kicked in the teeth for exploiting smaller unaligned nations? Can you cite an example of this ever happening, or did you just make it up because it sounds neat?

 

It sounded neat.

[Lex Quintus]

Okay so you're right, a rose is a rose is a rose.

 

But how many roses are on the bush in your front yard?

 

When one neighbor takes a rose from you, nobody else on the street can until the next day, because the little thorns get all supercharged, plus the aphids become positively ravenous.

 

On the other hand, you are yourself free to take a rose from each of [up to 6] neighbors per day.

 

So you make a bouquet while others get a corsage if they're lucky.

[RevolutionaryRebel]

Personally, I prefer carnations.

[Master Hakai]

Man, fuck flowers.

 

But I think we can quickly put a stop to these debates by understanding the timeline that occurs every time they come up:

 

1) Someone brags about doing more damage than all the nations they're fighting

2) Someone else points out it's not worth bragging about, given that nation is nuking everyone and only one nation is nuking him (nukes doing the majority of damage)

3) Rotavele immediately shifts the debate from bragging to "just stating facts" which wasn't the actual issue (everyone is fully aware of what is happening)

4) Nothing is accomplished

5) Everyone hates each other

 

I think that's where the miscommunication was happening, so now it's cleared up and we don't need to argue about it anymore. But I know you will. But I tried.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

 

It's true I do not understand about the nuke damage.

 

To be fair to you as trying to paint me as someone who doesn't understand this war either, I honestly don't. I haven't really read much about it. Just knowing your previous actions and from what I've read Kashmir tried to exploit smaller unaligned nations and got kicked in the teeth for it again.

 

When a group of nations gang up on one the defender can only take a nuke from one of them each day, while she can fire one at each of them. It's a tactical situation known to everyone beforehand (and the price the defender pays for it is high) but the attackers invariably profess to find it unfair and want to "correct their score" so to speak by calculating it out after things get going.

 

As to this war, I will give you my view in a nutshell. Rey and Meth have been feuding, probably mostly out of boredom on both their parts. Rey went unaligned at some point and war broke out between them (with Meth using mercs since they are not in range.) Ironically the mercs seem to have gotten word of the job through the callout thread Rey posted here, anyway.

 

So stonewall comes in I think as a merc volunteering to take on Rey. And he talks Meth into letting him join LN. And then Kashmir comes to Meth and says the guy is bad, he's on our enemies list, you shouldnt take him, and they declare wars against him.

 

Meth replies he wants to resolve it somehow without compromising his current war, he's trying to talk them into accepting some reps to resolve the situation or failing that to at least get it put on hold while his engagement with Rey is ongoing, and believes he has an agreement to do just that in the works, he is told it's acceptable but someone else has to sign off before it's official.

 

And while he is waiting for confirmation, they instead declare another war on his AA.

 

At which point he really had no choice but to recognise war and defend his own AA, by  hitting 3 of Kashmirs best himself.

 

I believe that covers the essentials in the correct order.

[Neo Uruk]

"he really had no choice" seems a bit slanted, don't you think?

[Sigrun Vapneir]

"he really had no choice" seems a bit slanted, don't you think?

 

No, I really do not.

 

Who would do otherwise in that situation? You're negotiating, you're told to wait for a confirmation, then instead of a confirmation, or a counteroffer, or anything along those lines at all,  you get another war declared on your AA?

 

An AA that does not defend itself has no excuse to exist. Maybe some do but I wouldnt be there, and neither would Methrage.

[Kilroy]

 

 

 

 

...believes he has an agreement to do just that in the works...

 

...At which point he really had no choice...

 

He literally had no reason to believe that it was in any way guaranteed. I've no clue why you're taking anything he says at face value as it's been proven again and again in every thread since this brouhaha started that he's more full of !@#$ than the sewers after a Taco Bell convention that served authentic Mexican water. Meth is less reliable a source for information than a drunken homeless man who sings everything he says.
 

He had many choices. He could have chosen not to accept a nuclear rogue into his ranks. He could have chosen to actually check his applicants war history. He could have chosen to put his vendetta against Rey on hiatus until he found a less insane hitman or until we finished with stoney. The man had a million choices and he settled for the stupidest option.

 

Edit:

"An AA that does not defend itself has no excuse to exist. Maybe some do but I wouldnt be there, and neither would Methrage."

 

What the hell do you think we were doing when we attacked Stoney? He made it quite clear he wasn't finished messing with us. So instead of letting him get to a point he could actually cause us damage we attacked him. How high are you right now?

Edited June 24, 2014 by Kilroy

[Sigrun Vapneir]

 

 

 

 

 

He literally had no reason to believe that it was in any way guaranteed. I've no clue why you're taking anything he says at face value as it's been proven again and again in every thread since this brouhaha started that he's more full of !@#$ than the sewers after a Taco Bell convention that served authentic Mexican water. Meth is less reliable a source for information than a drunken homeless man who sings everything he says.
 

He had many choices. He could have chosen not to accept a nuclear rogue into his ranks. He could have chosen to actually check his applicants war history. He could have chosen to put his vendetta against Rey on hiatus until he found a less insane hitman or until we finished with stoney. The man had a million choices and he settled for the stupidest option.

 

 

 

He had no reason to think anything was guaranteed in terms of a resolution, I would accept that. He DID have reason to expect you to refrain from launching new attacks while the terms were being considered, however. That third war appears to have been a deliberate escalation and provocation.

 

I have known Meth a long time. He is excitable, and he sometimes has a unique perspective, but I have never had any reason to question his honesty.

 

I have said already I find his acceptance of Stonewall regrettable. But you act like he knew what he was getting when he clearly did not!

 

Why did you let him go unmolested for 2 weeks prior to this? A lot of people would have seen the dates and believe it when told that it was settled just because of that.

 

You talk about choices, and it's true, Methrage made several that I personally do not approve of. But Kashmir had plenty of choices too. Kashmir could have tried to keep this guy at war so that his status as an enemy of Kashmir was apparent. Once they found their target accepted by an alliance, they could have taken diplomacy seriously here and pursued it in good faith. If you had been pursuing it in good faith, there was absolutely no reason at all to launch that third war, less than 24 hours after he gets his first warning that there is trouble, while he is waiting to hear an official response!

[Neo Uruk]

Sigrun shut up.. You're mad because STA punked you out over the issue and then Kashmir decided they have more balls than you.

[Master Hakai]

 

He had no reason to think anything was guaranteed in terms of a resolution, I would accept that. He DID have reason to expect you to refrain from launching new attacks while the terms were being considered, however. That third war appears to have been a deliberate escalation and provocation.

 

I have known Meth a long time. He is excitable, and he sometimes has a unique perspective, but I have never had any reason to question his honesty.

 

I have said already I find his acceptance of Stonewall regrettable. But you act like he knew what he was getting when he clearly did not!

 

Why did you let him go unmolested for 2 weeks prior to this? A lot of people would have seen the dates and believe it when told that it was settled just because of that.

 

You talk about choices, and it's true, Methrage made several that I personally do not approve of. But Kashmir had plenty of choices too. Kashmir could have tried to keep this guy at war so that his status as an enemy of Kashmir was apparent. Once they found their target accepted by an alliance, they could have taken diplomacy seriously here and pursued it in good faith. If you had been pursuing it in good faith, there was absolutely no reason at all to launch that third war, less than 24 hours after he gets his first warning that there is trouble, while he is waiting to hear an official response!

I understand you want to stick your neck out for your pal, but it's a losing battle. It's also a fruitless one, since it this particular argument b/t you/meth and everyone else will never settle anything or even change anything about what's happening or what will happen.

 

We're talking things over with methrage, but for now we're at war and that's the reality of the situation.

[Kilroy]

 

He had no reason to think anything was guaranteed in terms of a resolution, I would accept that. He DID have reason to expect you to refrain from launching new attacks while the terms were being considered, however. That third war appears to have been a deliberate escalation and provocation.

 

I have known Meth a long time. He is excitable, and he sometimes has a unique perspective, but I have never had any reason to question his honesty.

 

I have said already I find his acceptance of Stonewall regrettable. But you act like he knew what he was getting when he clearly did not!

 

Why did you let him go unmolested for 2 weeks prior to this? A lot of people would have seen the dates and believe it when told that it was settled just because of that.

 

You talk about choices, and it's true, Methrage made several that I personally do not approve of. But Kashmir had plenty of choices too. Kashmir could have tried to keep this guy at war so that his status as an enemy of Kashmir was apparent. Once they found their target accepted by an alliance, they could have taken diplomacy seriously here and pursued it in good faith. If you had been pursuing it in good faith, there was absolutely no reason at all to launch that third war, less than 24 hours after he gets his first warning that there is trouble, while he is waiting to hear an official response!

Two weeks? Where do you get that number from? I had literally just come out of nuclear anarchy via Stonewall about 3-4 days before this all started. I declared my revenge war on him the 2nd. He then declared war on Rey the 15th. That's much less than 2 weeks after our war ended.

 

At no point did we say the attacks on Stoney would stop. We said we would discuss things but that until a decision was reached Stoney would see no peace. I was there. I read the threads. Just because Methrage suffers from a strange condition where he only reads what he wants to read doesn't make it true. You're a smart guy I know you can figure out who's right in this. If he had just said "LOL no let's fight" I think he'd get a lot more respect from us (at least from me) than his feeble attempts at justifying it.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Two weeks? Where do you get that number from? I had literally just come out of nuclear anarchy via Stonewall about 3-4 days before this all started. I declared my revenge war on him the 2nd. He then declared war on Rey the 15th. That's much less than 2 weeks after our war ended.

 

At no point did we say the attacks on Stoney would stop. We said we would discuss things but that until a decision was reached Stoney would see no peace. I was there. I read the threads. Just because Methrage suffers from a strange condition where he only reads what he wants to read doesn't make it true. You're a smart guy I know you can figure out who's right in this. If he had just said "LOL no let's fight" I think he'd get a lot more respect from us (at least from me) than his feeble attempts at justifying it.

 

I stand corrected on the declarations, I miscalculated obviously. It was more like a week that he had been left alone.

 

But as to the rest, I did get the impression somehow in this he-said she-said that someone from Kashmir did tell him you would not launch new attacks on LN, and let's say you interpreted that statement differently than he.

 

Even if that did not happen, it would be the normal, reasonable assumption that if you are trying to negotiate you dont want to escalate at the same time. Sure, at some point you need to move if there is not a breakthrough, but that point was still many hours in the future when the third war was declared. Militarily speaking, it was premature edeclaration. It should have been delayed by a minimum of 5 hours, really.
 

Curious.

 

 

Edit:

"An AA that does not defend itself has no excuse to exist. Maybe some do but I wouldnt be there, and neither would Methrage."

 

What the hell do you think we were doing when we attacked Stoney? He made it quite clear he wasn't finished messing with us. So instead of letting him get to a point he could actually cause us damage we attacked him. How high are you right now?

 

 

 

I see your point here, I have from the first, or I would be doing more than talking at the moment.

 

Now let's start from there. You defend your AA. I defend my AA. Guess what? Meth defends his AA.

 

Once he let Stonewall on his AA he had to defend him. You attacked him knowing he had to defend him.

 

There were several days beforehand where you could have attacked him and did not. That would have given Meth warning, even he would have known there was a problem if there had been an active war. It's curious that for several days you could not mount a declaration but then suddenly you could not delay a, let's say less than urgent declaration on a target already tied down, by even a few hours.

 

At any rate, I havent disputed your claim with Stonewall. I'm just pointing out that whether you acknowledge it or not you did back Meth into a corner over it, and you did it very quickly.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Sigrun Vapneir

[Rayvon]

Even if that did not happen, it would be the normal, reasonable assumption that if you are trying to negotiate you dont want to escalate at the same time. Sure, at some point you need to move if there is not a breakthrough, but that point was still many hours in the future when the third war was declared. Militarily speaking, it was premature edeclaration. It should have been delayed by a minimum of 5 hours, really.
 
Curious.

The only reason there's any reason to negotiate is because Methrage put himself in the middle of something that had nothing to do with him. Ignorance is not bliss. War screens so fresh anyone would look up before accepting, plus talking with Stone should have given him even half a clue (unless Stone wasn't forthcoming with Methrage, but no different to Kashmir's responsibility). That "premature declaration" was merely Kashmir continuing with their business already-in-progress.

Why should Kashmir even have to negotiate to begin with?

[Neo Uruk]

Why does Kashmir have to stop hitting their rogue because they said they could possibly reach an agreement to stop hitting him after the current round?

[denkimon]

At any rate, I havent disputed your claim with Stonewall. I'm just pointing out that whether you acknowledge it or not you did back Meth into a corner over it, and you did it very quickly.

 

Actually, Methrage interjected into our affairs, issued ultimatums, and threatened doom and destruction upon us. He had constantly moving goalpoasts for negotiation with offers made and rescinded in matters of minutes, was promised nothing at all but and asked for a few hours so Kashmir could discuss is offer(s). He then literally declared nuclear war over a single new war that had caused ~200 NS damage against a target we were already attacking, and he did it within a matter of hours of said war. At every step he pushed, demanded, placed himself into our business, was unbending in his demands, extreme in his positions, and unrelenting in his insistence. Oh and then he chose to go all-in for nuclear war.

 

He backed himself into his own corner that he built all by himself, and he did it quickly, not us. This whole idea of decisions 'forced' upon him by Kashmir is pathetic. I pity someone so controlled by others in the actions they are 'forced' to take. Please.

[ChairmanHal]

The only reason there's any reason to negotiate is because Methrage put himself in the middle of something that had nothing to do with him. Ignorance is not bliss. War screens so fresh anyone would look up before accepting, plus talking with Stone should have given him even half a clue (unless Stone wasn't forthcoming with Methrage, but no different to Kashmir's responsibility). That "premature declaration" was merely Kashmir continuing with their business already-in-progress.

Why should Kashmir even have to negotiate to begin with?

As a practical matter, because at some point he's going to be able to buy and shoot nukes and land them against nations that don't have SDI?

 

No one respects white knights around here, and from the sound of it, we have another case of someone who went the white knight route without all the facts.  It's in everyone's interest I think that this get wrapped up fairly soon.