CNRP2 Over 50k nation rule discussion

[Captain Enema]

 

Actually yes it is, just like your cursing is really necessary. You see it expresses my extreme disapproval of this whole system and how it is designed to keep certain people disenfranchised. Separate but equal is inherently unequal.

 

Edit: Massa.

 

 

You are more than free to play cnrptrashpit. Ain't nobodies stopin' yuse from perpetuatin' the oppression in dem there parts.

 

CNRP2 though, it was suggested by myself originally for nations under 50k. 

 

Though, I'm just going to throw this out there and clear the air entirely.

 

Nearly ever single person I've spoken to, nearly everyone of them said they have no problem with the 50k and over nations other than Triyun.

 

 

Now I find this amusing, for months he's said, "DO SOMETHING ABOUT US."

 

So we did.

 

And now we are being oppressive?

 

 

lol. 

 

whatever.

 

Now, what I advise you do is just be patient. This will work itself out in its own good time. I personally don't want any nations over 50k involved. 

 

What I want is of little consequence when it comes down to the will of the community. However, that will has been poorly expressed through a series of absurd and moronic irc rants and polls. This discussion is to get a transparent and binding resolution by the active CNRP2 community as to how to best include nations 50k and over.

 

Since I'm outnumber in my desire to keep out 50k nations, I'm sure you'll have your poor cotton picking rights sooner than you think.

 

But, they'll come when the community has voted and only after the community has had a transparent discussion as to best go about it. The more you rant and rave the harder you make it for us to reach a conclusion we can use for moving to a vote.

 

 

and because markus will hate me

 

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/8193059840/hA7CCFE78/

Edited May 21, 2014 by Tidy Bowl Man

[Markus Wilding]

 

 

I hate it when you are the voice of reason.

 

Good points though.

 

why not leave the choice to the over 50ks.

 

They can come in over 50k and be optionally recognized.

 

Or come in with reduced stats that gets them under 50k for full recognition.

 

I think though we are playing with fire if we vote on specific members. Which is really my objection to over 50k nations in the first place. By allowing any in by vote, we are looking at being a popularity contest.

 

At least without over 50k nations, no popularity contest. Just no contest at all. 

 

This is a good suggestion. I like this suggestion. Who else likes this suggestion? See Spot run.

 

Though, I'm just going to throw this out there and clear the air entirely.

 

Nearly ever single person I've spoken to, nearly everyone of them said they have no problem with the 50k and over nations other than Triyun.

 

 

Now I find this amusing, for months he's said, "DO SOMETHING ABOUT US."

 

So we did.

 

And now we are being oppressive?

 

And now we're at the problem. We can RP with him in CNRP, but we always have to be careful to not piss him off. That's why we made this, really, so that we could RP and not have to worry about a world superpower destroying all our pixels because he didn't like the way we typed a word. I know it's not "SUPER-REALISTIC!@u*u!*!" but it's the truth (at least to me, that's why I joined in on this whole shebang). I just want to have fun and write a good story, because writing alone is boring as hell. I enjoy having this huge soundboard of people that react and respond to what I'm doing.

 

What I don't enjoy is being told that I can't do something because one person doesn't like it. I don't enjoy having a good RP be killed and destroyed because someone was bored and decided to declare war. Now, I'm guilty of this in the past, I know this, but it's still not fun to be on the receiving end of it.

 

Also, for the record, please for the love of god don't start arguing about whether or not Triyun planned all those wars or not because I don't wanna hear it, we've all heard it already and it's getting tiresome, just leave it be. I used it as an example of what I don't like to see, it's not meant as a tangent that's nowhere close to this topic's discussion.

[Captain Enema]

Markus, 

 

it is more than just one person. The entire cnrptrashpit culture is/was sick and toxic. 

 

That being said, the topic here is about whether or not to allow over 50k nations into cnrp. 

 

I again maintain allowing them in by vote is playing with fire and that we should not bother with them at all. If we exclude one, we should exclude them all. 

 

I for one have a very short list of people I refuse to rp with due to their blatant and constant metagaming in cnrptrashpit. 

 

Which means to me this is something we need to move carefully on and put a great deal of thought into rather than vomiting out some irc chats on the subject.

[Centurius]

 

 

You are more than free to play cnrptrashpit. Ain't nobodies stopin' yuse from perpetuatin' the oppression in dem there parts.

 

CNRP2 though, it was suggested by myself originally for nations under 50k. 

 

Though, I'm just going to throw this out there and clear the air entirely.

 

Nearly ever single person I've spoken to, nearly everyone of them said they have no problem with the 50k and over nations other than Triyun.

 

 

Now I find this amusing, for months he's said, "DO SOMETHING ABOUT US."

 

So we did.

 

And now we are being oppressive?

 

 

lol. 

 

whatever.

 

Now, what I advise you do is just be patient. This will work itself out in its own good time. I personally don't want any nations over 50k involved. 

 

What I want is of little consequence when it comes down to the will of the community. However, that will has been poorly expressed through a series of absurd and moronic irc rants and polls. This discussion is to get a transparent and binding resolution by the active CNRP2 community as to how to best include nations 50k and over.

 

Since I'm outnumber in my desire to keep out 50k nations, I'm sure you'll have your poor cotton picking rights sooner than you think.

 

But, they'll come when the community has voted and only after the community has had a transparent discussion as to best go about it. The more you rant and rave the harder you make it for us to reach a conclusion we can use for moving to a vote.

 

 

and because markus will hate me

 

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/8193059840/hA7CCFE78/

You'll notice nearly none of the complaints originate from Triyun, nice try deflecting though sunshine.

[Captain Enema]

Don't you have an international rp board to get back to sweetie?

[Centurius]

Watching you quit and rejoin every other day is way too fun, I'll get back to that later.

[Justinian the Mighty]

At the risk of sounding like a 6:00 news soundbite -- I am part of the community, no matter how much you want to keep me out. I will continue to voice my opinion because I will not be kept in shackles.

 

As I see it, a better solution to the problem is to freely allow people to rp. I've been hearing a lot about "optional recognition" Well, why can't you "optionally recognize" things before? I don't understand why you had to create a new rp, then say, "only people 50k and below can participate" Have I done anything in cnrp that has kept any of you from rping 100% the way you want? To my knowledge, no I haven't, and yet I am not now allowed to rp in your club because I chose to manage my nation and buy loads of tech and infra in game.

 

To me this was just a way to spite people who you don't like and force guilt on people. Well sir, I say nuts to that! Nuts to you, and Nuts to anyone who thinks I'm just doing this to be a jerk.

[Captain Enema]

At the risk of sounding like a 6:00 news soundbite -- I am part of the community, no matter how much you want to keep me out. I will continue to voice my opinion because I will not be kept in shackles.

 

As I see it, a better solution to the problem is to freely allow people to rp. I've been hearing a lot about "optional recognition" Well, why can't you "optionally recognize" things before? I don't understand why you had to create a new rp, then say, "only people 50k and below can participate" Have I done anything in cnrp that has kept any of you from rping 100% the way you want? To my knowledge, no I haven't, and yet I am not now allowed to rp in your club because I chose to manage my nation and buy loads of tech and infra in game.

 

To me this was just a way to spite people who you don't like and force guilt on people. Well sir, I say nuts to that! Nuts to you, and Nuts to anyone who thinks I'm just doing this to be a jerk.

 

 

Easy, 

 

I pushed for a new rp of under 50k nations to avoid the hegemonic assclowns stinking up cnrptrashpit. It was a fresh map, new start, and hopefully it steers clear of the ooc nonsense for at least a little while. When it came time to go live, there were conflicting positions on whether or not over 50k nations should be invited. Because of those conflicting positions, I limited it to 50k and under and decided to put it to the cnrp2 community for a discussion.

 

 

I for one am have a great time in cnrp2. It is great having a flood of new members to interact with, the forums have not had this much energy and excitement for the last two years or more.

 

It feels great to be able to rp without having to kowtow to anyone. 

 

I reiterate my stance, no over 50k nations.

[Helios]

Yeah, no compromise is reachable in this situation.

 

Stick to the rule, no 50k+ nations.

[Uberstein]

Personally I've decided to just ignore everyone who's complaining about CNRP2.

 

I'm also re-recognizing TBM. I've been under quite a bit of stress and I have been making rash decisions because of it. I still have some issues with his behavior at times but overall he's a decent fellow, heh.

 

As for the 50k nations thing, I agree with the idea of creating a standard number of soldiers and then applying their tech level to the scale. We just need to settle on the exact amount of soldiers.

 

We can figure out how we handle their navy once the navy rules have been made.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Uberstein

[Captain Enema]

Personally I've decided to just ignore everyone who's complaining about CNRP2.

 

I'm also re-recognizing TBM. I've been under quite a bit of stress and I have been making rash decisions because of it. I still have some issues with his behavior at times but overall he's a decent fellow, heh.

 

As for the 50k nations thing, I agree with the idea of creating a standard number of soldiers and then applying their tech level to the scale. We just need to settle on the exact amount of soldiers.

 

We can figure out how we handle their navy once the navy rules have been made.

 

That's one of the options Mogar mentioned to me. I am tentatively tip toeing my way towards it. 

 

What I suggested to mogar is he go around and start sounding people out for a voting poll.

 

3 choices

 

A) No change

 

b) optional recognition

 

c) fixed troop counts for 50k and plus nations

 

I've heard the number for 50k plus nations being 710,000 troops. That seems fair. I'd like to hear more about this idea. It honestly doesn't sound half bad. 

[Zoot Zoot]

I have been watching this entire thing unfold both OOCly, and ICly on the fantasy boards with both sides making valid points, some more so than others.

I won't make a secret of my desire to be involved in CNRP2, but at just under 100k, that isn't going to happen.

 

I would rather my membership be voted in by the CNRP2 GM's after a free and clear election process once CNRP2 has been ironed out. I say this because Mogar and I am sorry to say this, is being quite despotic and his ego his attitude and ego is one of arrogance. Watching TBM ragequit and then return is both disconcerning and strange because its showing that there is alot going on on IRC which is enraging, but hes not willing to give up on the project.

As for capping stats, I do agree with it to an extent, but a guy with 500k men, and excels at RPing war, can make just as much of a mess of a smaller nation as some of our war RPers in CNRP can do. My biggest defence against an opponant do excels at war, is my size itself and my numbers because I can't war effectivly. The price for joining CNRP2 is for me to sacrifice this defence and fight with one arm behind my back. Now, as uber pointed out on IRC, its down to research, and lets be realistic, those of us with jobs, our own houses and responsibilities in RL, are not realistically going to sit down and pour over journals, articles, wikipedia pages DARPA and other sources on modern war, in order to be able to play a game effectly. The comparision he used was Eve Online, the difference is, is that you learn on the job in Eve, part of the game itself is getting the correct fittings for your ships depending on the situation and how to be use your ship class against the enemy. CNRP and CNRP2 are fundamentally different because its a text based, roleplaying game which is driven by the community dynamic and it shouldnt demand that people have to sit down and read up on how to conduct a real war and all its sideshows, to play a damn game.

In conclusion, if you are capping stats, be reasonible, there are countries in the real world with million men armies that use their numbers as their strength, not their technological feat of arms, likewise, there are nations with tiny armies who cause massive havoc because of the technological advantage. If you want to keep out the undesirable elements from CNRP2 that made you break off from CNRP, then it should be done after GM elections, and done on a person by person basis.

An example would be that I am happy to use my IG aircraft count, my IG navy count and be capped a flat million men, knowing full well I wouldn't even have all of them active at one time, like I have done with my CNRP nation. I have a 50/60k man regular army, and like 1.4 million reserves. I hope my point makes sense, if not, then don't jump down my throat, just tell me whats confusing and i will explain.

[Evangeline Anovilis]

 

What I think you should do is not involve yourself in this discussion. You've hounded, badgered, and ranted to Mogar far too much to get yourself into this for my comfort. What you ought to do is quietly let this community decide who we want to approach the over 50k question.

 

That's my personal opinion. 

 

 

That being said, you do make the occasional good point.

 

 

I personally think if a nation over 50k wants to RP, fine. 

 

Let them.

 

With no nukes, at at 15,000 ns for their first 3 months. After which, if the community is comfortable with them around, they'll vote to let them go up to 50k and with nukes.

I voiced my opinion and you are free to ponder about it, ignore it, do whatever. I don't claim voting rights on your community rules, but I think it is not unimportant to raise certain points. If you feel uncomfortable about me stating my opinion, well, it can't be helped.

 

Also, I see no reason to utterly restrict the people over 50k NS. Reach a solution that caps everyone at 50k and over, so noone's ridiculously powerful, but stop treading us all like we ought to be first put into quarantine and on trial period, if we are capped anyway.

At the risk of sounding like a 6:00 news soundbite -- I am part of the community, no matter how much you want to keep me out. I will continue to voice my opinion because I will not be kept in shackles.

 

As I see it, a better solution to the problem is to freely allow people to rp. I've been hearing a lot about "optional recognition" Well, why can't you "optionally recognize" things before? I don't understand why you had to create a new rp, then say, "only people 50k and below can participate" Have I done anything in cnrp that has kept any of you from rping 100% the way you want? To my knowledge, no I haven't, and yet I am not now allowed to rp in your club because I chose to manage my nation and buy loads of tech and infra in game.

 

To me this was just a way to spite people who you don't like and force guilt on people. Well sir, I say nuts to that! Nuts to you, and Nuts to anyone who thinks I'm just doing this to be a jerk.

I don't know what to say. Quoted because it's true.

 

 

That's one of the options Mogar mentioned to me. I am tentatively tip toeing my way towards it. 

 

What I suggested to mogar is he go around and start sounding people out for a voting poll.

 

3 choices

 

A) No change

 

b) optional recognition

 

c) fixed troop counts for 50k and plus nations

 

I've heard the number for 50k plus nations being 710,000 troops. That seems fair. I'd like to hear more about this idea. It honestly doesn't sound half bad. 

Should cap it for everyone at such a number. What's the difference really between a nation at 51k NS that gets shrunk from 900,000 to 710,000 and a nation at 49k NS, that gets full 900,000. If you want noone being ridiculously powerful, there should be an overall cap.

 

Otherwise, it's reasonable.

[Captain Enema]

GM elections have been done for a day or so now. 

[Captain Enema]

 

 

Should cap it for everyone at such a number. What's the difference really between a nation at 51k NS that gets shrunk from 900,000 to 710,000 and a nation at 49k NS, that gets full 900,000. If you want noone being ridiculously powerful, there should be an overall cap.

Otherwise, it's reasonable.

 

Given I have 810,000 troops at 25k ns.. I find myself somewhat reluctantly agreeing to this statement.

[Mogar]

Have I done anything in cnrp that has kept any of you from rping 100% the way you want? To my knowledge, no I haven't, and yet I am not now allowed to rp in your club because I chose to manage my nation and buy loads of tech and infra in game.

supported every single war against any nation I have had ICly to which I have never been given a chance to exist a good enough thing to list?

[Justinian the Mighty]

The question did just occur to me, what happens if someone already under 50k ns goes above 50k? Do they automatically get kicked out? Do they get capped? Do they get to continue to increase their stats and lord over those dirty "Highbies" Do crows suddenly appear and peck out their eyes? In respect to this I think Eva is on the right track. If anyone cares about my Highbie opinion.

[xoindotnler]

My proposal is to keep it the discussion off IRC and all in here.

 

Person 1 posts his proposal or what needs to change and how. People need to wait a day to respond to it or propose something else. This way everyone gets to think about it, and most importantly don't make hasty discussion because some people want to burn their tires.

 

Trying to build rome in one hour while screaming on IRC will not help.

Edited May 21, 2014 by xoindotnler

[Mogar]

They screenshot their nation and use those statistics as their stats from that point forward, Xoin was our first nation to do this and that will remain the rule until a solution is reached.

[Justinian the Mighty]

supported every single war against any nation I have had ICly to which I have never been given a chance to exist a good enough thing to list?

 

When have I supported, whether in character or out of character, any war against you? True, I didn't intervene on your behalf, but do you really want me to?

[Uberstein]

I believe what was already discussed on that point was the idea of taking a screen of your stats prior to going over, and using your pre 50k stats.

So no, you didn't find a huge hole. That's part of what were figuring out.

[Captain Enema]

So our three voting choices..

 

A) no nations over 50k

 

B) optional recognition

 

C) allow them in at a capped strength

[Justinian the Mighty]

I believe what was already discussed on that point was the idea of taking a screen of your stats prior to going over, and using your pre 50k stats.

So no, you didn't find a huge hole. That's part of what were figuring out.

 

I never said I found a huge hole. It was an honest question brought about by a fundamental failure in my searching skills. But now I know, and knowing is half the battle.

[Uberstein]

Should we make a thread for the poll?

[Hereno]

As much as I want more people, the posting from the over-50k people have been like almost entirely mean-spirited and annoying. I'm starting to really not see any benefit to including any of you, and I'm starting to get why TBM wanted to take our time and really search for an answer. Because, invariably, the people who we're trying to include in the RP are showing me exactly why they haven't been.