CNRP2 Over 50k nation rule discussion

[Mogar]

500k soldier cap, 2014 tech level is the most commonly thrown about proposal so far, unless they arent over 3500 tech ingame, in which case they fall under whatever under the tech scale, navies and aircraft to be decided elsewhere.

[Lysergide]

With as much as we need to flesh out with the bugs we are running across to keep the RP running in the right direction for the current players, I don't think this subject matter should be discussed at this time.

[BringMeTheHorizon]

Would this apply to everyone, or just people over 50k? Because if it only applies to people over 50k, I'd have 470k soldiers at (around) 28k, and it would be a horrible advantage for people below 50k.

 

 

Though I do think 50k is perfectly fine as a cap, and if people go over it who were established we can figure out something at a later date. Keep it capped at 50k, starting NS. Also, the average NS in CN is 33k, so 50k is perfectly fine as a cap. 

[Captain Enema]

With as much as we need to flesh out with the bugs we are running across to keep the RP running in the right direction for the current players, I don't think this subject matter should be discussed at this time.

 

Mogar needs to chill out and let us get to more important matters first.

 

Navy rules/aircraft rules/ nuke rules and then the 50k and over nations.

 

Mogar, stop trying to appease everyone, this is not a contest between cnrp2 and cnrp. Peace in our time, no thank you Mr. Chamberlain. 

[Mogar]

The cap would only apply to nations above 50k as an intentional weakening of their statistics to bring them down closer to the average sized nation.

[Captain Enema]

wrong thread, wrong place.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Tidy Bowl Man

[Markus Wilding]

I CAN'T READ

Edited May 21, 2014 by Markus Wilding

[BringMeTheHorizon]

The cap would only apply to nations above 50k as an intentional weakening of their statistics to bring them down closer to the average sized nation.

 

So theoretically I could almost double my NS, and have double their solider count? 

[Hereno]

Does everyone agree that we'd like to eventually open CNRP2 up to >50k nations?

Does everyone agree that we think their stats should be somehow limited in the event that CNRP2 is opened up?

These questions can be answered now, as can what potential soldier levels for these nations should be. Naval, aircraft, nuclear, and other questions about even more limitations will have to wait until later. However, I see no reason why we can't hit the ground running and at least decide if we need to even figure out the numbers for those nations or not.

[Markus Wilding]

Does everyone agree that we'd like to eventually open CNRP2 up to >50k nations?

 

I do.

 

 

 

Does everyone agree that we think their stats should be somehow limited in the event that CNRP2 is opened up?

 

I do.

 

Something that came up a lot on IRC was limiting 50k+ nations was tying them to an average CN nation around 50k. Did someone have stats for that or am I imagining things?

[Captain Enema]

At this time I'd object to allow nations over 50k into CNRP2. i think it is important to allow the little guys time to get settled, get rping, before having them face off against far more experienced and larger rpers, who will have a major advantage no matter how their stats are limited.

[Dillon1102]

I agree with TBM, as a small nation in CN:SE I'm a lot smaller than everyone. Therefore it's my opinion any nation under 10,000 NS should have increased benefits

[Hereno]

I agree with TBM, as a small nation in CN:SE I'm a lot smaller than everyone. Therefore it's my opinion any nation under 10,000 NS should have increased benefits

What does this have to do with whether or not we allow in larger nations?

[Evangeline Anovilis]

The cap would only apply to nations above 50k as an intentional weakening of their statistics to bring them down closer to the average sized nation.

As much as I might not have a say in this matter and as it might make me looks suspicious, I think that a cap should bring 50k+ nations in line with what's around 50k NS, not with the average. It's a bit strange if I could be theoretically a lot larger with 49k NS, than I'd be if I am at 50,001 NS. Most people at larger NS did nothing to deserve getting levelled more than those in the 40ks of NS.

 

My concern here is that I'd advocate a raise of the soldier cap to 700,000, given that even people like Hereno could have that many, at much lower NS. As pointed out before, if I truely were to cut my tech to the point of complying with the 50k rule, I'd still get about 900,000 soldiers. I see that this might make me a bit infra-heavy, and I'd become a heavyweight, but it pretty much shows how much leeway there is while staying below 50k NS. 700,000 should be a good middle ground between real capability and limitation.

 

Additionally, I'd argue that you just cap soldier counts for everyone, so as to avoid infra-heavy high-40's. There is no magical change at 50k NS where a peaceful happy guy becomes a blood-thirsty oppressive tyrant. Just look at Lynneth and Shammy. Here again, 700,000 would seem pretty fair to me.

 

I agree with TBM, as a small nation in CN:SE I'm a lot smaller than everyone. Therefore it's my opinion any nation under 10,000 NS should have increased benefits

 

Before we start about how small new nations are going to suffer at the hands of a 700k army, let's just point out that a nation with less than 100,000 soldiers will suffer already from someone with 300,000 soldiers to the point they would most likely lose. Any decent-sized nations could oppress those. So, either you decide to just hope everyone's going to stay nice, or you give them a lower ceiling, where any nation has for example 70k soldiers, even if they are 3 NS.

 

Overall, I argue in favour of the modification. The rationale should, in my opinion, become to make the gap between large and small nations smaller and capabilities more equal. The tech scale works towards that, soldier counts could also be modified towards this. 70,000-700,000 is still large, but it is definitely a step away from ~20-4 million. As said before, people don't change at 50k NS and this rule, as much as you may crave for protection, is shutting out a lot of people who might be in CNRP or even completely new, and who did nothing at all to deserve being shut out. People that might just be friendly and easy-going contributers, that ended up at too high an NS to join. And for some, like Lynneth, those can't even sell down infra to comply, as 10k+ tech is an automatic disqualification and noone would spend the months it'd require to send away all those thousands of tech.

[Hereno]

Actually Eva makes a good argument there and I do think 500k is way too low when I've currently got over 100k more at less than 40k NS.

[Captain Enema]

snip

 

 

 

 

What I think you should do is not involve yourself in this discussion. You've hounded, badgered, and ranted to Mogar far too much to get yourself into this for my comfort. What you ought to do is quietly let this community decide who we want to approach the over 50k question.

 

That's my personal opinion. 

 

 

That being said, you do make the occasional good point.

 

 

I personally think if a nation over 50k wants to RP, fine. 

 

Let them.

 

With no nukes, at at 15,000 ns for their first 3 months. After which, if the community is comfortable with them around, they'll vote to let them go up to 50k and with nukes.

[Kevin Kingswell]

 

 

 

 

What I think you should do is not involve yourself in this discussion. You've hounded, badgered, and ranted to Mogar far too much to get yourself into this for my comfort. What you ought to do is quietly let this community decide who we want to approach the over 50k question.

 

That's my personal opinion. 

 

 

That being said, you do make the occasional good point.

 

 

I personally think if a nation over 50k wants to RP, fine. 

 

Let them.

 

With no nukes, at at 15,000 ns for their first 3 months. After which, if the community is comfortable with them around, they'll vote to let them go up to 50k and with nukes.

 

As a member of said community I say no to your proposal. This is turning out to be more about you being able to lord over certain people jsut as people like you have complained about in CNRP than being actually about making somewhere else for people to role play. I vote to just let people like Eva to join and to be recognised on a per person basis. If someone doesn't want to recognise them that is their choice but I refuse to agree to people being refused out right or limited in any way. 

[Captain Enema]

 

As a member of said community I say no to your proposal. This is turning out to be more about you being able to lord over certain people jsut as people like you have complained about in CNRP than being actually about making somewhere else for people to role play. I vote to just let people like Eva to join and to be recognised on a per person basis. If someone doesn't want to recognise them that is their choice but I refuse to agree to people being refused out right or limited in any way. 

 

 

Then why make it on a per person basis? You are making no sense what so ever by going onto say "I refuse to agree to people being refused out right or limited in any way."

 

The entire point of the RP was for people to be under 50k. If they are accepted into the rp, they'll have to come down under the 50k limit. 

 

Meaning they'll be facing a limit to how much of their NS they'll be able to use.

 

I'm not lording anything over anyone. I have my own concerns I want addressed. I put forward the idea of cnrp2 for the purpose of escaping the toxic environment of cnrptrashpit, an environment perpetuated by a number of nations over the 50k mark.

 

I for one am not eager to have nations over 50k involved. 

 

 

Now what might work any nation over 50k is considered optional. They can have a place on the map, but no nation under 50k need recognize their actions or existence.

 

But that has to apply to every single nation over 50k. And neither do I want to have to deal with some arcane formula of technowizardy to figure out just exactly where they are in the stats.

 

CNRP2 should not require a degree in advance maths. 

Edited May 21, 2014 by Tidy Bowl Man

[Justinian the Mighty]

Why hey Massa! If I's can dranks from the sames wata'fontin' and rides on da frunt o' da bus an go's to the same school as you fine gent'lmen I's be willin to do anything. I's might even do a lil' tapdancn' fo's ya. Massa!

 

'scuse me whils i's go eat some wal'mellon and drank some purpl' drank. Swing low, sweet chariot...

[Captain Enema]

Why hey Massa! If I's can dranks from the sames wata'fontin' and rides on da frunt o' da bus an go's to the same school as you fine gent'lmen I's be willin to do anything. I's might even do a lil' tapdancn' fo's ya. Massa!

 

'scuse me whils i's go eat some wal'mellon and drank some purpl' drank. Swing low, sweet chariot...

 

 

My cotton needs picking as well, get on it. 

[Justinian the Mighty]

 

 

My cotton needs picking as well, get on it. 

Please, don' hit me, massa. I's be a good slave. I ain't never not done no wrong to nobody massa, but lordy lordy it sho do be hot out der in dem cotton fields. Can I's have a drank o' ya lemon wata' massa?

[Markus Wilding]

So both ideas have pretty good ideas.

 

I like the idea of having 50k+ come in but be recognized optionally, like Triyun's good ol' Pure Lands. This also ties in with voting to let people in.

 

I also like the idea of limiting the bigger kids in terms of stats.

 

Both have their problems. 50k+ nations can come in and gobble up land that newer players could want, for example. How do we determine these stats? What's the baseline? How do we stop voting in from just being a popularity contest? Neither idea is perfect in it's own way.

 

The solution is probably in finding a compromise between the two.

[Hereno]

Please, don' hit me, massa. I's be a good slave. I ain't never not done no wrong to nobody massa, but lordy lordy it sho do be hot out der in dem cotton fields. Can I's have a drank o' ya lemon wata' massa?

Is this shit really necessary?

[Captain Enema]

So both ideas have pretty good ideas.

 

I like the idea of having 50k+ come in but be recognized optionally, like Triyun's good ol' Pure Lands. This also ties in with voting to let people in.

 

I also like the idea of limiting the bigger kids in terms of stats.

 

Both have their problems. 50k+ nations can come in and gobble up land that newer players could want, for example. How do we determine these stats? What's the baseline? How do we stop voting in from just being a popularity contest? Neither idea is perfect in it's own way.

 

The solution is probably in finding a compromise between the two.

 

 

I hate it when you are the voice of reason.

 

Good points though.

 

why not leave the choice to the over 50ks.

 

They can come in over 50k and be optionally recognized.

 

Or come in with reduced stats that gets them under 50k for full recognition.

 

I think though we are playing with fire if we vote on specific members. Which is really my objection to over 50k nations in the first place. By allowing any in by vote, we are looking at being a popularity contest.

 

At least without over 50k nations, no popularity contest. Just no contest at all. 

Edited May 21, 2014 by Tidy Bowl Man

[Justinian the Mighty]

Is this !@#$ really necessary?

 

Actually yes it is, just like your cursing is really necessary. You see it expresses my extreme disapproval of this whole system and how it is designed to keep certain people disenfranchised. Separate but equal is inherently unequal.

 

Edit: Massa.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Justinian the Mighty