A Conference on Africa

[Triyun]

With the powerpoint display over, J. Denard turns his attention to the representative from Draka and asks, "With respect, my government would like to better understand the Drakan position on the recent attack on Cape City. Could you, and I ask with respect as your government from all appearances has tamed a rather unruly section of Africa, explain your governments actions so that we might all better understand them?

 

I will point out to those gathered there that Legion's experience with the South African, now Drakan, region has always been one in which the various native groups have not always been able to coexist. Very early in Legion's history, before Athens came to Africa, South Africa was a place of repression and disharmony. Drakan moves seems to have created a much more united region free of some of the more troubling ethnic divisions. 

 

Yet, the Cape City question remains and given Draka's efforts to create a more unified society free of the odious taint of apartheid, I feel it appropriate to have Draka help us all understand the situation more."

Beyond the Capeian President Mogar being a nuclear criminal, who should probably be submitting himself to trial in Athens and Tianxia, he was also President of countries in North Africa and South East Asia in times past.  In fact it is the government of Tianxia's position as well as I believe the Government of Athens position that the causes of the war in North Africa included mass kidnapping of Asian citizens, as well as slavery of what are currently now Athenian citizens.  A carpet bagger tin pot dictator with a history of these types of human rights abuse, coming in to South Africa... if I was concerned about preventing the taint of Apartheid, I'd be worried.  

 

Of course none of these crimes need to follow someone around their entire life, but a trial would be positive step.  I believe the Athenian Criminal Court has a noticeable international justice section for crimes with points of origin in Europe and Africa.  While Tianxia's supreme court has universal jurisdiction for crimes against natural law, we're in this instant willing to defer to the Athenians and avoid double jeopardy.

[Centurius]

"That very much is in line with the Athenian position, while the government was willing to overlook past offences when deciding on the independence of the Cape the first signs of a repetition of the past have already shown themselves. The Supreme Court of the Athenian Federation has precedent of trying crimes in Europe and Africa in the past and the authority to extend its jurisdiction even further"

[Mogar]

"Nico Haumann is our Prime Minister, I am unsure who this Mogar person even is, and am curious to know where you have heard this information. Every member of our government was born in Southern Africa and has lived in or near The Cape their entire lives. What signs of repetition are you speaking of?"
 

 

OOC: Mogar visited The Cape and sold some more favorable technology to a few of the companies, that's the extent of his interaction with the Cape, I am genuinely curious to know where you decided I put myself into a leadership position. not to mention I was tried and convicted, not my fault Cent decided to try and kill him in a plane crash. also, neither of you has ran spy rolls to try to find Mogar, nor has he made any public statements or appearances your governments would know about due to rapture being heavily optional canon, are you acknowledging you are using OOC reasons to support IC actions? This would be metagaming at the very least. I would like to see a link to ANYTHING posted on these forums that implies that you have any IC justification to believe that Mogar is in a leadership spot of The Cape.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Mogar

[Triyun]

OOC:  Chillax brosef, I was under the impression your nation is currently rapture and that  the Cape has abandoned its post and been overrun by Vektor due to the formation of the new nation, your lack of further posting to Vektor's attacks, and your posting there.  I don't recognize vamps, but if you're at the conference I can only imagine it is that nation, otherwise why would you not have responded to Vektor's post.

[Mogar]

OOC: my representative here is from The Cape, I have very little motivation to post daily in a thread that I have explicitly been told I will not exist at the end of, so yeah my focus has been put elsewhere.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Mogar

[Uberstein]

Chancellor Samara would do whatever it is that people do make microphones make that horrible whining noise, and then spoke, "Esteemed representatives, we are not here to argue, at least not yet." He smirked and continued, "I do have a semi-formal agenda of topics for us to discuss. The first of which is the question of stability. Africa has seen a series of conflicts in a very short time, and as far as I'm concerned, the lack of initial diplomacy seen is completely unacceptable. We are people, not animals. We have words, we can speak. Of course violence has its place, but diplomacy must be our first option every time. Its in this interest that I propose the creation of an African Union, a body to which African states can bring their issues and proposals."

 

 

OOC: Please bring OOC discussions to the OOC thread, it's what it's there for. IC yelling about the war is perfectly acceptable.

[Captain Enema]

Beyond the Capeian President Mogar being a nuclear criminal, who should probably be submitting himself to trial in Athens and Tianxia, he was also President of countries in North Africa and South East Asia in times past.  In fact it is the government of Tianxia's position as well as I believe the Government of Athens position that the causes of the war in North Africa included mass kidnapping of Asian citizens, as well as slavery of what are currently now Athenian citizens.  A carpet bagger tin pot dictator with a history of these types of human rights abuse, coming in to South Africa... if I was concerned about preventing the taint of Apartheid, I'd be worried.  

 

Of course none of these crimes need to follow someone around their entire life, but a trial would be positive step.  I believe the Athenian Criminal Court has a noticeable international justice section for crimes with points of origin in Europe and Africa.  While Tianxia's supreme court has universal jurisdiction for crimes against natural law, we're in this instant willing to defer to the Athenians and avoid double jeopardy.

 

"There is an insturment that can be used in a time such as this, its called a warrant for arrest. Of course, diplomacy seems to be something that was missed entirely. Further, a general invasion of a nation over one person who as far as Legion knows wasn't in power, is utterly excessive and entirely wrong. We appreciate Tianxia's position on war criminals, we support the bringing of these sorts of criminal to justice, but we can't support going these sort of lengths to deal with this specific type of situation. Legion steel industries were active in Cape City prior to the attack, we knew nothing of this General Mogar being in power, nor were we even aware of him being in Cape City. Had we known, it would have been a different story. 

 

What I want to know, what Legion wants to know is what is motivating Draka to carry out their mission? Draka was not around for this General Mogar. Which brings me back to, why is this happening?"

Edited May 8, 2014 by Tidy Bowl Man

[Kevin Kingswell]

 

"There is an insturment that can be used in a time such as this, its called a warrant for arrest. Of course, diplomacy seems to be something that was missed entirely. Further, a general invasion of a nation over one person who as far as Legion knows wasn't in power, is utterly excessive and entirely wrong. We appreciate Tianxia's position on war criminals, we support the bringing of these sorts of criminal to justice, but we can't support going these sort of lengths to deal with this specific type of situation. Legion steel industries were active in Cape City prior to the attack, we knew nothing of this General Mogar being in power, nor were we even aware of him being in Cape City. Had we known, it would have been a different story. 

 

What I want to know, what Legion wants to know is what is motivating Draka to carry out their mission? Draka was not around for this General Mogar. Which brings me back to, why is this happening?"

 

"Perhaps the Dominion of Draka is simply acting because it can do so. After all they have declared South Africa as their territory and the small blip that was The Cape may not have been to their liking. I seriously doubt The Cape would have willingly joined with the Dominion so that left military force as the only measure left" offered Kresh.  

[Triyun]

Threats can simply manifest themselves as they come.  Draka's existence or lack thereof at any point does not alter that event from occurring.  There are known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns.  Sometimes in order to protect against unknown unknowns preventative actions are justified so long as they are undertaken in an expedient and judicious manner in order to facilitate the deescalation of future crises of the most dire political, economic, and strategic nature.

[Markus Wilding]

"It is the opinion of Sierra Leone that diplomacy should have been at the minimum attempted before the sudden invasion by Draka. If land is what they were after, perhaps a referendum could have been held, or an integration of their governments. I do not feel obliged to believe that The Cape posed a significant threat to Draka, although I suppose an investigation will make this clear."

[Triyun]

The idea, that the Drakan State does not have the right to self defense absent a popularity contest is bordering on absurdity.  The World still exists outside the confines of fanciful and idealist commentary of those in this room.  The creation of a precedent of referendum for justifying action in inter-state conflict, conflict between two sovereigns, is staunchly opposed.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Triyun

[Markus Wilding]

"Sir, that is not what I said at all. Again, Sierra Leone's position is that some form of diplomacy should have been attempted, and a referendum on whether The Cape should join Draka could have been part of that. Again, we in Sierra Leone do not believe that The Cape posed a significant military threat to Draka, but if we are proven wrong, then we are wrong. We do not deny that Draka, and other states, should have the right to self-defense. As you said, that is absurd."

[Triyun]

The idea that any referendum could be held, where the propagandist of the Cape could not influence the outcome to a predetermined one is absurd.  Military Force is not for using as an alternative of diplomacy.  It is used for shaping diplomacy.  

[Uberstein]

Samara signed and leaned against the podium, "I see that the agenda is going to be ignored. Anyway, this is my question. Why the constant change of story? First it's that the cape is starving it's civilians. A humanitarian mission, with no evidence provided nor any investigation. Then suddenly the war is about this Mogar person, who seems to have never held a position of power in the cape. And now the war is some strange mix of self defense and territorial expansion. Why does the story keep changing? Are we not rational people? If it is truly self defense, shouldn't there be evidence for it? Is it not reasonable that we, Draka's continental neighbors, might be concerned with the fact that this war appears to be nothing but territorial expansion? And as sovereign nations seeking the continuation of said sovereignty, I'm sure you understand our desire to figure out if we should be condemning a destabilizing, expansionist action, or applauding a humanitarian act. It's a little difficult to do so when the reason for this war keeps changing. But, the representative from Draka is here, I'm sure they could speak on their own behalf if they so choose, rather than have justifications thought up for them by the esteemed representative from Zanzibar."

[Triyun]

If Draka moves against the Imperial Sphere of Influence in East Africa, or the Athenian Protectorate, or the Russians, I think it will find itself in a very precarious situation.  As for the Cape, there are many problems with that nation.  All of Draka's are not our own, and all of ours are not Draka's, however, if the Cape wished to survive it should have had better allies, a better military, or different policies.  There are only so many nations that spend enough money on national defense to stop Drakan Aggression at this instant.  Mine is first among them, followed by the Athenians.  Its not our job or obligation to enable through either our direct action or basing in our territory the defense of a nation that's a shit stain on the map.

 

The delegate from Sudan surely must realize everyone here has a choice.  You can go through your countries political life, under investing in national defense while acting ungrateful to larger nations upon which you free ride for collective defense, you can attempt to be a revisionist power and challenge the status quo, you can choose some course in between.  But all actions and all choices have consequences.  Pointless complaining serves no one.

 

 Like it or not, the simple truth at the end of the day is, that unless you can get a credible military power to act as a unconditional supplier, which does not include any of those complaining here today, The Cape was never a sovereign state once a true major African power in the form of Draka arose.  Pretending otherwise is foolish.  

[Uberstein]

"We're not asking, at this point, for a larger nation to step in. In fact, the original purpose of this conference was to bring Africa together in such a way that it could police itself, without intervention. Personally? I feel that there is nothing at this point that we can do about the Cape. But we have a positive example; the way the conflict between Gabon and Sierra Leon was handled was fantastic. There was a swift reaction not only from the Exarchate of Africa, but Legion and my own nation of Sudan. Right now, the two nations are in peace talks, and both attended this conference as well, even before peace talks were guaranteed to happen. That is my goal, the creation of a stable Africa which can rely entirely on internal mechanisms for that stability. With stable regimes comes economic prosperity, and from there we can maintain better relations with the rest of the world. You speak of power flowing from the barrel of a gun. I personally seek not power, but peace, maintained by collective security supported by member states rather than a singular power. One could say I wish to lift the burden from the superpowers' shoulders."

Edited May 8, 2014 by Uberstein

[Malatose]

After listening for a brief moment, the Drakan representative began to speak. "As we have specified in earlier announcements, the Cape is Drakan land. For that reason alone, we do not have to bow down to international pressure, when it comes to the well being of our state. This conflict is an internal Drakan issue, and it will continue to be treated as such." The Drakan representative paused and began to speak again, "The Dominion of Draka does find it disturbing, that there is support for partisans which are actively involved in direct military actions against us. By supporting these groups, you are supporting direct harm to our people, which might force us to act accordingly."

Edited May 8, 2014 by Malatose

[Kevin Kingswell]

After listening for a brief moment, the Drakan representative began to speak. "As we have specified in earlier announcements, the Cape is Drakan land. For that reason alone, we do not have to bow down to international pressure, when it comes to the well being of our state. This conflict is an internal Drakan issue, and it will continue to be treated as such." The Drakan representative paused and began to speak again, "The Dominion of Draka does find it disturbing, that there is support for partisans which are actively involved in direct military actions against us. By supporting these groups, you are supporting direct harm to our people, which might force us to act accordingly."

 

"Imperial Gabon would like to take this time to reinforce its support for the Dominion of Draka".

[Triyun]

"We're not asking, at this point, for a larger nation to step in. In fact, the original purpose of this conference was to bring Africa together in such a way that it could police itself, without intervention. Personally? I feel that there is nothing at this point that we can do about the Cape. But we have a positive example; the way the conflict between Gabon and Sierra Leon was handled was fantastic. There was a swift reaction not only from the Exarchate of Africa, but Legion and my own nation of Sudan. Right now, the two nations are in peace talks, and both attended this conference as well, even before peace talks were guaranteed to happen. That is my goal, the creation of a stable Africa which can rely entirely on internal mechanisms for that stability. With stable regimes comes economic prosperity, and from there we can maintain better relations with the rest of the world. You speak of power flowing from the barrel of a gun. I personally seek not power, but peace, maintained by collective security supported by member states rather than a singular power. One could say I wish to lift the burden from the superpowers' shoulders."

 

Last I checked the Exarchate was backed by the Athenian Military, which is armed by the Athenian Federation, manned by Athenian citizens, and funded by the Athenian Treasury.  Without the Athenian Military getting involved, I'm a bit skeptical Gabon would be listening to Sudan at all especially with Draka's backing.  In other words, the world we live in is a brutal one motivated by bastardly people with bastard interests.  The thing holding those back are people with bigger swords, and speaking as on with a big sword, perhaps it'd be nice to get a thank you card and some flowers on occasion instead of demands from normally hostile nations to go bleed for hem.

[Markus Wilding]

Bright listened to the remarks made by the Drakan, Gabonese and Tianxian delegates, then rolled his eyes and ignored them. "To get back to the topic at hand, Sierra Leone would be in favor of an African Unity pact."

[Malatose]

Darren leaned back in his chair, "The last I heard, the situation in the Cape was the current subject at hand. Perhaps it was too much for you to comprehend...?"

[Markus Wilding]

"I'm sorry, was it not announced by our host that the idea of a unity pact was first on the list of things to discuss? I realize it was a semi-formal agenda, but it appears I am the only one actually thinking of this. However, if you are here only to insult me then I do not believe we will get along well."

Edited May 8, 2014 by Markus Wilding

[Mogar]

 "In regards to the Tianxian representatives comments, The Cape did seek out an agreement with Athens to prevent this sort of atrocity from occurring, there is few others in the world who could have provided protection from a fellow African nation. We have been nothing but cordial in our interactions with both Tianxia and Athens, the only comment we had made since our independence was questioning Tianxia claiming the British Isles as theirs, but upon the creation of the independent state once more, any concerns we had were quelled, we had supported the intervention into Sierra Leone, and are genuinely surprised at the lack of intervention upon our behalf considering Athens vested interest in African Stability. I wonder where you hear your information to believe our City had numerous problems, a 3% unemployment rate and falling, as well as the largest economy on the continent with the exceptions of Draka and Athens."

After listening for a brief moment, the Drakan representative began to speak. "As we have specified in earlier announcements, the Cape is Drakan land. For that reason alone, we do not have to bow down to international pressure, when it comes to the well being of our state. This conflict is an internal Drakan issue, and it will continue to be treated as such." The Drakan representative paused and began to speak again, "The Dominion of Draka does find it disturbing, that there is support for partisans which are actively involved in direct military actions against us. By supporting these groups, you are supporting direct harm to our people, which might force us to act accordingly."

"I will be waited with bated breath for your military to move against the Exarchate, as they are in control of far more South African land than our humble City. We find it disturbing you have not provided any evidence of our City proving a threat to you, the "partisans" you speak of are defending their independence and homeland against an unprovoked aggressive invasion." Elfrieda pulled up a website streaming live footage from reporters with hardened electronics, originally intended to report on foreign wars but quite useful for reporting on the defend of The Cape. holographic images of the blatant use of fuel air explosives against civilians would be shown. "How does Draka rationalize committing war crimes to this international conference I wonder? By supporting Draka you are supporting the deaths of millions of innocents who did nothing but wish to be left in peace." she turned to the host of the conference and added quickly. "Although based upon the words of the Drakan representative The Cape will not be allowed to exist further, we support the creation of an African Union, Africa has always had chaos and infighting, a reformed African Union would allow for Africa to solve its own problems rather than constantly force the powers that be to intervene on the continent's behalf."

Edited May 8, 2014 by Mogar

[Mergerberger II]

It was at this point that John Olympio finally stood and spoke.

 

"Mr. Mohammed," he said in a slightly condescending tone, "if you and the empire you represent accept that only might makes right, and that morality is of no consequence anymore, then why are you even here? Indeed, why are any of us here? No one of us could hope to stand up to Tianxia or Athens, or even Draka, yet here we are, negotiating and attempting to reason with one another, despite your claims that it is only might that can possibly triumph.

 

"And Mr. Darren, if you do not recognize the right of a state to exist freely because you claim it has economic issues, then why do you allow your state, or indeed any state, to exist freely? All nations have some economic problems, which are best resolved either internally, or if the nation has begun to spiral downward, diplomatically, not through use of overwhelming force as you have done with the Cape."

 

John cleared his throat and took a drink of water, but remained standing, as all eyes were fixed on him. "If we as states, as African states who share a common heritage of colonialism and imperialism, are going to claim any right to exist, it must start with the Cape. We must realize that all peoples are just that - people. And as people, they are endowed with certain rights, and first and foremost among them is the right to life. Mr. Darren, your nation has taken this right from millions of Cape citizens, as well as some of your own people. It is for this reason that I propose a trial of Drakan leaders for war crimes committed against the Cape. You had no right to invade, no right to kill all those citizens, and no right to blow up an entire civilization simply because they were bothering you.

 

"General Mogar had nothing to do with the situation in the Cape, and unless you can provide indisputable evidence that he did, we will remain firm in that position. Further, as the representative from the Cape said, they were facing outstanding economic growth, and the unemployment rate was <3% and falling. By this logic, we of Guinea have determined your crusade to save the people of the Cape from their evil overlords to be illegal, unethical, and immoral.

 

"Switching to the topic that was proposed by the Sudanese representative, I do not believe it is possible to create a body to solve African problems so long as there are nations within the continent seeking to stir up trouble," he looked at the Drakan representative, who was giving him a scornful look back, but he just smiled and continued, "and foreign powers without any significant land in Africa practicing doublespeak at formal African gatherings," he now looked at Said, who show no emotion of consequence. "It is for that reason that I consider this meeting a waste of Guinean resources and time, and I would ask that if we are to get anything done here, we should remove the representative from Tianxia from this meeting," and with that said, he sat, fairly certain that his words would bring nothing but outrage from Draka and Tianxia. But maybe some smaller nations in the meeting would find the courage to support him.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Mergerberger II

[Captain Enema]

Malatose, on 09 May 2014 - 12:55 AM, said:
Darren leaned back in his chair, "The last I heard, the situation in the Cape was the current subject at hand."

 

 

 

"I offer this to Draka, in the interest in stopping the immediate fighting, bringing about a rapid peace. Of course, what I offer is contingent of the citizens of Cape City agreeing to go along with it as well, if they choose not to do so, that is their choice. Legion has the city of Bossaso in Northern Legion. We offer it without cost, to any or all Cape City refugees. 

 

This is also contingent that those refugees agree to not use Bossaso as a base of operations against the government of Draka. Part of this agreement will also be an enforcement mechanism between Legion and Draka."

Edited May 8, 2014 by Tidy Bowl Man