DIOS MIO

[BringMeTheHorizon]

"If NSF attacks FAN, we'll attack NSF. Because we want to. There's no real reason to pick them out of the plethora of targets we have. We just want to."

But you care so much~

 

Wow... are you missing the point where we said if NSO attacked, we'd attack NSO?

 

The reason for NSF was that Die Linke had so far not posted a DoW or gotten involved. UCR was the original target, so why attacked them! We were going in if anyone attacked FAN. If we attacked them (Die Linke) without them posting a DoW, you'd have !@#$%*ed about that as well, and what if they weren't going to attack, we'd be attacking people who weren't going to get involved. We could have attacked OG, but there weren't a lot of target in our ranges. In fact we attacked before Die Linke even posted DoW's.... 

 

I just don't understand what you're not getting, you really are trying too hard, man. 

 

Whether NSF was going in or not, you had multiple other alliances to chose from, and you chose NSF. That was poor planning or a really low ball move, because you saw an opportunity to hit them with DT not being involved. Either way, it doesn't look good.

 

 

I concur, it does not look good. Any attack we made was not going to look good, but what good are agreements if you don't honor them? For the plethora of other targets, read above. 

Edited March 11, 2014 by BringMeTheHorizon

[Neo Uruk]

Are you seriously going to tell me that you didn't see all the declarations on FAN from SWF?

I'm not trying hard at all, it's actually pretty easy to make this declaration look like complete bullshit. Maybe there's a reason for that.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Neo Uruk

[Auctor]

Are you seriously going to tell me that you didn't see all the declarations on FAN from SWF?

 

He doesn't remember?

[BringMeTheHorizon]

Are you seriously going to tell me that you didn't see all the declarations on FAN from SWF?

I'm not trying hard at all, it's actually pretty easy to make this declaration look like complete !@#$%^&*. Maybe there's a reason for that.

 

Am I supposed to scouring all the wars across the globe, see random nations attacking FAN then if I don't see a DoW. Am I supposed to think they are sanctioned? That's like seeing NSO nations attacking someone, without a NSO DoW, are they sanctioned? 

[Gh0s7]

Am I supposed to scouring all the wars across the globe, see random nations attacking FAN then if I don't see a DoW. Am I supposed to think they are sanctioned? That's like seeing NSO nations attacking someone, without a NSO DoW, are they sanctioned?

If that someone is fighting an ally of NSO's, then I'd assume so, yes. Edited March 11, 2014 by Gh0s7

[Neo Uruk]

Am I supposed to scouring all the wars across the globe, see random nations attacking FAN then if I don't see a DoW. Am I supposed to think they are sanctioned? That's like seeing NSO nations attacking someone, without a NSO DoW, are they sanctioned?

If we have 20% of our nations hitting someone -- this someone has also by chance directly attacked our MDP partner and blocmate -- and do not make a note of it to defuse the situation, as well as openly saying that we are preparing to go to war? Yeah, probably.

Blaming it on you not wanting to "scour all the wars across the globe" -- when, in reality, it's a very public issue and you should have made a note of who was hitting FAN if your intent was really to help FAN and you had any intentions whatsoever of avoiding conflict with NSF -- is not only just plain lazy, it also would still point the blame directly at yourself. Edited March 11, 2014 by Neo Uruk

[BringMeTheHorizon]

Look, anything I say, short of showing you logs from our discussion with FAN, or DT. Or screen shots of our embassy on DTs forum, and our from our forums will not convince you.

 

If you want to believe there is something deeper than there is, sure go ahead. I wont sit here, and lie and say that hitting NSF doesn't make me extremely happy, the only reason we're attacking them is FAN asked for our help with NSF, they were the target we could do the most damage. EDIT (THAT HAD ALREADY DoWed)This isn't us getting a cheap shot in on NSF, or anything. I apologized to DT before we attacked. 

 

Rey, if you have any other concerns I will address them. But I will not be going on about this part of the discussion anymore, because you keep thinking it's something that it isn't. 

Edited March 11, 2014 by BringMeTheHorizon

[hartfw]

I feel like there is a great shame in everyone expecting something from BMTH in this thread.

 

Shame on you all.

[Unknown Smurf]

I think BMTH was well intentioned. He had 3 allies in a difficult position potentially if he fought for yellow unity (which I think we can all agree is probably RIOTs ultimate goal -- as a member of a small badly connected alliance I can attest to the benefit of having good relations with the alliance that controls your senate). NSO DT and Kashmir were the alliances btw.

NSO would be in a difficult position because their allies in SL potentially are going to fight on DLs side. Considering SL doesn't honor treaties and NSO told BMTH that they weren't going to war, BMTH did all he could on this front.

DT would have been in a difficult position if NSF defended their DL allies but NSF told DT that they weren't going to enter the war. At this point BMTH did what he should've. He later found out that NSF was going to attack.. At which point the story gets hazy but both sides seem to agree BMTH said to DT he would attack NSF if they hit FAN, which they did and he did. So he did right by DT.

Kashmir would only have been in a difficult position if NSO entered but as stated above they told KCP they weren't going to.. It seems as though BMTH kept them in the loop anyways as a good ally should.

That said I think planning to enter for FAN may not have been the best decision considering his allies but after that point he did nothing wrong. Clearly BMTH is on the wrong side of the web.

PS This is why I didn't consider KCP a power sphere but I did consider DL and Arizona and whatever smaller blocs as one.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Unknown Smurf

[Lysergide]

Still the same stupid people spouting off at the mouth.

[Pat Bateman]

What is so difficult to comprehend here? RIOT had a perfect opportunity to hit an alliance they didn't like. They provided logs of why they didn't like them. I'm sure their tie to NSF will be cut one way or the other after the war, as it should. So what's there to analyze here exactly?

[Neo Uruk]

lmao @ the above two posts

@Smurf, NSO is not an ally of Riot Society. I was approached asking if we were hitting, on a false premise of trying to preserve KCP.

[Unknown Smurf]

lmao @ the above two posts

@Smurf, NSO is not an ally of Riot Society. I was approached asking if we were hitting, on a false premise of trying to preserve KCP.

KCP is a chaining ODP isn't it? That is how RIOT, Kashmir and tJL hit Kaskus via NSOs treaty with ShangriLa.. So I would say NSO is an ally of RIOT.

[Neo Uruk]

Actually, if I recall, Kashmir cited that hitting SL directly interfered with NSO's war with TOP/Polar/Fark via taking away an ally that should have been assisting there. I could be wrong, but I don't recall the actual treaty being cited. It could very well be interpreted how you say, but as far as I am concerned our business with KCP is strictly a tie to Kashmir.

[YOLO SWAG]

 
I think you use the word massive like I try to convince Mrs. Beloved to use it.  

This post is massively underrated.

[Ovidsidios]

I like it. FAN is having fun and so will you

 

People crying too much itt

 

You know, I started to like you in the God Tier thread. Now, I'm starting to like you even more...

 

obligatory no-homo

 

I feel like there is a great shame in everyone expecting something from BMTH in this thread.

 

Shame on you all.

 

You know...I...I mean...what can I say? BMTH is a straight shooter. He's never been one to dance around notions, especially when it comes to something he's got nothing to hide. Yeah there's a great shame here, and it's making everyone look foolish 

 

Still the same stupid people spouting off at the mouth.

 

aaaaaaaaaannnnnddddddd......

 

Actually, if I recall, Kashmir cited that hitting SL directly interfered with NSO's war with TOP/Polar/Fark via taking away an ally that should have been assisting there. I could be wrong, but I don't recall the actual treaty being cited. It could very well be interpreted how you say, but as far as I am concerned our business with KCP is strictly a tie to Kashmir.

 

There's a lot of ambiguity in your post. If your certain about something, than quit your stuttering boi!


EDIT:

 

For YOLO

 

 

 

 

I think you use the word massive like I try to convince Mrs. Beloved to use it.  

 

 

This post is massively underrated.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Ovidsidios

[603Redneck]

Omg just shut up already! 5 pages of e-lawyering and crying from uninvolved parties. No one gives a shit about your point of view so drop it already! FFS!!!

[Pat Bateman]

lmao @ the above two posts

@Smurf, NSO is not an ally of Riot Society. I was approached asking if we were hitting, on a false premise of trying to preserve KCP.

Did I just get owned? I have no idea. I feel like I just mispronounced a name from Lord of the Rings and two Melvins snickered and high fived eachother after calling me a loser. Is that what just happened?

[Walshington]

KCP is a chaining ODP isn't it? That is how RIOT, Kashmir and tJL hit Kaskus via NSOs treaty with ShangriLa.. So I would say NSO is an ally of RIOT.

 

Not as I understand it.  KCP is not a bloc -- it radiates OUT from Kashmir to each individual member of the KCP, but the members do not have the same ties to each other.  In short, Kush is the hub and reserves the right to intervene militarily, economically or otherwise along each of the spokes, but the spokes do not necessarily have any obligations to each other (although they are presumably on good terms). KCP simply defines what Kashmir sees as its sphere of influence.

 

In that way, I suppose it could be viewed as an ODAP between Kashmir and each individual member in conventional terms. But why am I prattling on?  Read this, and all will be revealed...  

 

Actually, if I recall, Kashmir cited that hitting SL directly interfered with NSO's war with TOP/Polar/Fark via taking away an ally that should have been assisting there. I could be wrong, but I don't recall the actual treaty being cited. It could very well be interpreted how you say, but as far as I am concerned our business with KCP is strictly a tie to Kashmir.

 

You are half correct.  Kush attacked Kaskus because they saw Kaskus' war against Shangri-La as removing an ally from NSO's war on TOP, but the KCP was specifically invoked in doing so.  Why wouldn't they?  That's what the KCP is there for.

 

The Red Asses countered Kashmir in defense of Kaskus, and tJL hit the Red Asses  in defense of Kashmir, not NSO -- consistent with KCP.  Riot Society was not a member of KCP at the time if I recall correctly, but entered because... well, read the OP.  It's what they do.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Walshington

[Lysergide]

Did I just get owned? I have no idea. I feel like I just mispronounced a name from Lord of the Rings and two Melvins snickered and high fived eachother after calling me a loser. Is that what just happened?

 

In a nutshell, yes.

[YOLO SWAG]

Not as I understand it.  KCP is not a bloc -- it radiates OUT from Kashmir to each individual member of the KCP, but the members do not have the same ties to each other.  In short, Kush is the hub and reserves the right to intervene militarily, economically or otherwise along each of the spokes, but the spokes do not necessarily have any obligations to each other (although they are presumably on good terms). KCP simply defines what Kashmir sees as its sphere of influence.
 
In that way, I suppose it could be viewed as an ODAP between Kashmir and each individual member in conventional terms. But why am I prattling on?  Read this, and all will be revealed...  
 
 
You are half correct.  Kush attacked Kaskus because they saw Kaskus' war against Shangri-La as removing an ally from NSO's war on TOP, but the KCP was specifically invoked in doing so.  Why wouldn't they?  That's what the KCP is there for.
 
The Red Asses countered Kashmir in defense of Kaskus, and tJL hit the Red Asses  in defense of Kashmir, not NSO -- consistent with KCP.  Riot Society was not a member of KCP at the time if I recall correctly, but entered because... well, read the OP.  It's what they do.

 
This guy gets it.

In that way, I suppose it could be viewed as an ODAP between Kashmir and each individual member in conventional terms.

Though to be clear, Kashmir does not subscribe to this analysis. Edited March 12, 2014 by YOLO SWAG

[Shave N Haircut]

Well. Glad all that got settled out good and proper.

[Ovidsidios]

Well. Glad all that got settled out good and proper.

 

 

Don't jinx it just yet.

[Neo Uruk]

There's a lot of ambiguity in your post. If your certain about something, than quit your stuttering boi!

Maybe I put it that way because I wasn't certain, and in fact worded it that way specifically because I knew I could have been incorrect and was too lazy to go to the source (as Welsh did) and see that KCP was specifically invoked (as Welsh pointed out) despite NSO not officially declaring war.

[Ovidsidios]

Maybe I put it that way because I wasn't certain, and in fact worded it that way specifically because I knew I could have been incorrect and was too lazy to go to the source (as Welsh did) and see that KCP was specifically invoked (as Welsh pointed out) despite NSO not officially declaring war.

 

And still here you are, useless regarding clarification, and still running your mouth. But I digress. I think your point has been seen, met, and dashed.

 

obligatory words of encouragement, "better luck next time".