Jump to content

(IC) Global Analysis 2: Accountability in government


The Zigur
 Share

Recommended Posts

No, I don't. That being said, nor do I pretend to. I don't know the member culture of any alliance particularly, aside from TOP. Nor do I pretend to... and that right there is the key difference between you and I on this matter.

 

It was not about knowing the culture, it was about knowing the history. When a new regime seizes power, they burn the books and execute the dissidents. When I began to question what I saw around me on their forum, the leadership, none of whom I recognized, quickly turned hostile. This accelerated after I left the HB AA to deal with Mushqaeda, and defended Neutrality from within Zulu.

Edited by Tywin Lannister
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 91
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

'New regime' - Ivan's regime, the only regime you know, was 5 years ago. It ceased to be when he ceased to be. It has changed through 4 other Emperor's before me - and it'll change with the next and the next until The End.

Crying over how we screwed you over has nothing to do with us and our culture, or our leadership. It had everything to do with not giving a fuck about you imposing terms for your uninvited "services".

For all the bawling you do about global stability, you sure do try damn hard to bring it all tipping down on you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

'New regime' - Ivan's regime, the only regime you know, was 5 years ago. It ceased to be when he ceased to be. It has changed through 4 other Emperor's before me - and it'll change with the next and the next until The End.Crying over how we screwed you over has nothing to do with us and our culture, or our leadership. It had everything to do with not giving a $%&@ about you imposing terms for your uninvited "services".For all the bawling you do about global stability, you sure do try damn hard to bring it all tipping down on you.

Reactionaries are always fueled by fear, but my only intent was to help you embrace Order and prosperity, rather than the decline I quickly observed. I had no desire for your throne, no backdoor admin access, I wanted you to grow.

But power and even basic stability has slipped through your hands since seizing total control.

Hopefully Pacificas Praetorian Guard survived any new purges, although Im not too hopeful. Edited by Tywin Lannister
Link to comment
Share on other sites

<OP>

If I am not mistaken you identified three distinct forms of organization:

  • "Stagnant" democracies, or organizations "not completely removed from the state of nature".
  • "Efficient" democracies, or organizations where the leader is democratically accountable.
  • "Democratic" autocracies, where the leader and the members are made accountable by a secret "ideologically pure" "handpicked" internal organization.

You then promised to «explain why Order always prevails», but all I see are glimpses of (interesting, anyway) histories that don't really explain the reason of anything.

  • I can't find in your post any explanation of how or why the internal political dynamics/institutions you alluded to would deliver the results they would promise. There are no theories or modeling.
  • I can't find any proof or attempt to prove (either scientifically or philosophically or heuristically or statistically or ...): there are just anecdotes.
  • I don't see any comparison of characteristics and/or results with other forms of government.
  • Even the end results of the three forms of government are not really explained, but just labeled: "state of nature" and "order".

Could you please elaborate a bit more?
 
For starters: what are the key differences between what you call "stagnant" and "efficient" democracies? What positive/negative feedback or internal other action is supposed to deliver/obstruct the achievement of the results you speak of? What is "Order"? What is the "state of nature"? What are the problems, advantages and success/failure factors in all of this? Etc. (thanks)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
It was not about knowing the culture, it was about knowing the history. When a new regime seizes power, they burn the books and execute the dissidents. When I began to question what I saw around me on their forum, the leadership, none of whom I recognized, quickly turned hostile. This accelerated after I left the HB AA to deal with Mushqaeda, and defended Neutrality from within Zulu.


Did you actually expect to see the same leaders from five years ago? Seems like that's a terribly unrealistic expectation.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't Neo Uruk NSO government after being there for like a month?
 
Instead of strongest, I would say it's rule of whoever is still active. After all, that is the only explanation for that one.


He is mid-gov. But no - people have failed to proceed in a challenge against an empty seat, and have also failed challenges against someone less active than themselves. The Brotherhood's check and balance over whom leads them.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the biggest fault I find here is that NSO has apparently faded into obscurity/is just a horrible horrible version of itself from ~5 years ago. I'm not gonna sit here and defend NSO to the death or anything, I don't like 'em that much.

 

...But if your alliance in the spark of a global war (inb4 "this war's really about NPO though!"), I'd say you're still in the big picture. I can think of a bunch of different alliances off the top of my head that would better represent a fall from grace than NSO.

 

Edit:

 

 

To be fair Feanor has been our King since '08.

 

Exception not the rule. <_<

Edited by WarriorSoul
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the biggest fault I find here is that NSO has apparently faded into obscurity/is just a horrible horrible version of itself from ~5 years ago. I'm not gonna sit here and defend NSO to the death or anything, I don't like 'em that much.

 

...But if your alliance in the spark of a global war (inb4 "this war's really about NPO though!"), I'd say you're still in the big picture. I can think of a bunch of different alliances off the top of my head that would better represent a fall from grace than NSO.

Well, activity is not as rampant as it was years ago. This might explain why Tywinn and Neo both sit in government positions. There are no other explanations for those two. 

 

This is not to say NSO is dead, or irrelevant, just perhaps in need of active middle management, which, outside of the sanctioned alliances, everyone is. Given that Polar is my first sanctioned alliance since CDS - I am a reliable source on that front. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For Pacifica, it has been 4 emperors since Moo was Emperor (Cortath, Mary, Brehon, Farrin). Together, these 4 emperors have been in leadership more than 1.5 times the duration of Moo's reign as Emperor.

 

Each Emperor is motivated by different things and has a different set of goals that they want to accomplish in their time as Emperor. Without having been under their leadership OR seen/understood the changes each Emperor has brought to the alliance, I'm afraid your analysis looking from the outside is woefully incomplete, despite you speaking with a member of low level government in NPO with said member not having been a member of the Praetorian Guard.

 

Nearly half a decade has gone by since Moo's reign, Tywin. Many of the organizations within NPO have been forced to restructure and reorganize in the wake of declining membership for greater efficiency or because of changes in policies and thought processes.

 

The way you speak of Pacifica implies that the real power behind the Emperor and the alliance is Praetorian Guard, which is not the case. The Praetorian Guard is, but one department of many in Pacifica and is responsible for specific tasks as outlined in our wiki page (with additional duties assigned as needed by the head of the department).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, activity is not as rampant as it was years ago. This might explain why Tywinn and Neo both sit in government positions. There are no other explanations for those two. 

 

This is not to say NSO is dead, or irrelevant, just perhaps in need of active middle management, which, outside of the sanctioned alliances, everyone is. Given that Polar is my first sanctioned alliance since CDS - I am a reliable source on that front. 

 

The fact that Tywin sat in government, at least on this roll, is a fluke. :|

 

Contrary to popular belief (and it took a good bit of convincing), Rey isn't nearly as awful as you might think. OWF posturing has a way of slanting your attitude toward someone, which we're all pretty much guilty of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The fact that Tywin sat in government, at least on this roll, is a fluke. :|

 

Contrary to popular belief (and it took a good bit of convincing), Rey isn't nearly as awful as you might think. OWF posturing has a way of slanting your attitude toward someone, which we're all pretty much guilty of.

If you present yourself as terrible, you are probably terrible. I've spoken with him many times and have been in an alliance with him before, and some things never change.

 

I'm just glad Starfox has crippling dementia so that I don't have to feel slighted.

Okay, I guess I'll just assume you are such a good pickup that NSO had to make you government in weeks. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, I guess I'll just assume you are such a good pickup that NSO had to make you government in weeks.

fyi it took like months but okay starfox, master of not shooting himself in the foot

And for the record, the alliance we were in was terrible and that was....4 years ago? Get over yourself. Edited by Neo Uruk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

fyi it took like months but okay starfox, master of not shooting himself in the foot

And for the record, the alliance we were in was terrible and that was....4 years ago? Get over yourself.

As I said, some things never change. 

 

You've had a real run of alliances since then, I see.

 

Edit: Months? ...48 days? 

Edited by Starfox101
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I said, some things never change. 
 
You've had a real run of alliances since then, I see.
 
Edit: Months? ...48 days?

Yes, alliance seniority shows exactly how long I have been a member. Perhaps if you paid attention instead of criticizing things you know nothing of, you would see things in this very forum that would explain the 48 day seniority to you. In reality, I joined before this war even started.

But don't let that stop you from being part of my adoring, clueless fan club. Groupthink is a helluva drug. Edited by Neo Uruk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, activity is not as rampant as it was years ago. This might explain why Tywinn and Neo both sit in government positions. There are no other explanations for those two. 

 

Why have you been harping on me constantly? You yourself said I would have won a senate seat in Vox Populi, except you stole the election. I was your Emperor in IAA and as Regent supported giving you shelter when fleeing the wrath of Pacifica.

Edited by Tywin Lannister
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I am not mistaken you identified three distinct forms of organization:

  • "Stagnant" democracies, or organizations "not completely removed from the state of nature".
  • "Efficient" democracies, or organizations where the leader is democratically accountable.
  • "Democratic" autocracies, where the leader and the members are made accountable by a secret "ideologically pure" "handpicked" internal organization

 

This is fairly correct, although for democracies to be efficient, they need two qualifications: a sovereign who's legal power is not too divided, and an active, educated and selective membership. My first alliance, Fifth Column Confederation, for example, had an extremely active and educated membership but a weak sovereign due to separation of powers. I still remember all the political (and downright personal) civil wars that used to blow up, some of which nearly turned violent.

 

I'll get to your other questions in time, Jerdge.

Edited by Tywin Lannister
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I said, some things never change. 

 

You've had a real run of alliances since then, I see.

 

Edit: Months? ...48 days? 

Rey joined me in my great crusades against those who oppose me, during this time he continued to be a member of NSO, as does everyone on my AA besides myself retain their membership in their original alliance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Why have you been harping on me constantly? You yourself said I would have won a senate seat in Vox Populi, except you stole the election. I was your Emperor in IAA and as Regent supported giving you shelter when fleeing the wrath of Pacifica.

I wouldn't say I stole it. I just re-appropriated it because you are political suicide. I recognized that years ago, and it is still apparent today.

 

I had actually forgotten you led IAA. That was good times, but it was ages ago.

 

Yes, alliance seniority shows exactly how long I have been a member. Perhaps if you paid attention instead of criticizing things you know nothing of, you would see things in this very forum that would explain the 48 day seniority to you. In reality, I joined before this war even started.

But don't let that stop you from being part of my adoring, clueless fan club. Groupthink is a helluva drug.

Even so, 2-3 months is not a long time to make government, especially for someone who has been in so many alliances.

 

Fan club. You're starting to sound like that other person who assumed everyone criticizing them was obsessed with them. I won't name who it is for fear he will return and begin posting again. I guess it's a defense mechanism to use when all else fails.

 

 

You present yourself with Naruto so...

 

Then again, you do suck that much so maybe you're right about Rey.

I would return the compliment, but I have no idea who that is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...