Let's talk this out guys

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

IN CONGRESS, January 14, 2014
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen people who want to talk to Triyun and Cent,
When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to address the social bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these players; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present players of Triyun and Cent is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these players. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

They have expelled players from their nations over minor and perceived slights.
They have ruled the game with utter fear and tyranny that prevents players from the maximum enjoyment. 
They have restricted the entrance of people into their protectorates so that the resulting players will be completely subservient to their whims.
They have generated a culture of superiority amongst themselves, leading to rudeness when addressing people both in and out of character.

They have lolteched a system of invulnerability into the military, leading to futile resistance and the removal of players from their current roleplays.

They have usurped the governments of many players, forcing them to be completely subservient to their tyrannical regimes.

They have refused to interact with the greater community outside of dull treaty posts.

They have stolen Sarah from the rest of us, causing us to interact with sub-par players.

 

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury and responses to do something about it IC. Players whose characters are thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, are unfit to be the ruler of a free role playing game.
Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our player brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to aid in extending an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our engagement here, and remind them that we are all players in the same game whose final goal is not conquest, but enjoyment. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the oppressed players in CNRP, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these players, solemnly publish and declare, That these players are, and of Right ought to be Free and noble states; that they are Absolved from all tyranny to the hierarchy, and that all political connection between them and the oppression of Triyun and Cent, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent players, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

 

KAISERMELECH MIKHAIL HANCOCK

 

lkfht Gwinnett

 

Generalissimo Hall

Edited January 15, 2014 by KaiserMelech Mikhail

[lkfht]

Yeah I support this.

[Triyun]

I'd respond to this but I don't know how.  I will be happy to talk to people about diplomatic strategies and if you have specific language about helping noobs tell me.  If a noob ethnically cleanses someone I still may shoot them. 

 

In regards to land all of South American and Latin America pretty much are open.  ME will be soon too.

[PresidentDavid]

I'm not sure if you recognize that your territory isn't the problem. If you noticed, MGL and Justinian were not put into this situation. It's your conduct. I don't mean to sound rude or personal, but I just wanted to make sure that was perfectly clear.

Please, by all means, reference back to the other thread for more clarification.

 

That's all I have to say on the matter - just wanted to inform. 

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

While I cannot speak for everyone, I don't care about all your land except for the Russian land that you illegally occupy.  Nobody is saying that you shouldn't fight people who are off ethnically cleansing people (although it really should be done by people in the general region, not you all the way around the world), but short of that, try to cut people more slack.  Condemn actions, urge for moderation, send a PM to the person telling them to knock it off, all these things should come before any military action.  Also, if someone wants to roll or reroll in your land/protectorate, try not to be so constricting on them.  Filling the world with mini-triyuns isn't fun for anybody.

Edited January 15, 2014 by KaiserMelech Mikhail

[Captain Enema]

Oh god help me....

 

If this ends up with the mods getting involved, I'm saying this now, don't be too surprised if they throw their hands up in the air and close the entire fantasy rp sub.

 

ONE THREAD about this was enough.

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

Oh god help me....

 

If this ends up with the mods getting involved, I'm saying this now, don't be too surprised if they throw their hands up in the air and close the entire fantasy rp sub.

 

ONE THREAD about this was enough.

If they wanted to shut us down, they would have done it LONG ago.  Also, while the other thread was divisive, mine is uniting.  I'm trying to salvage this situation.

[Generalissimo]

Generalissimo supports KaiserMelech Mikhail's declaration with every fiber of his long dwindling soul.

[Triyun]

Why'd you bring up Australia in chat then, honestly I have no clue how to respond to this Melech.  

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

It was an example of land that you just don't use, and could easily open to new people.  I understand that it may not be the most popular plot, but it's the thought that counts.  However, our general grievances are not with your land size.  While we all may not like it, it is not what this is about.

[Captain Enema]

I for one, support the total and complete reform of the war system. You should not need to spend endless hours studying Military Science to be able to reasonably compete in a role playing forum. Some people are always going to be better at fighting wars, that's a given, however the level of technological sophistication involved in some of these posts is far too out of the grasp of many involved in CNRP.

 

War system needs to be user friendly.

War system needs to be easy to use.

War system needs to be designed in a way that takes out part of the griping. (You'll never stop all of the griping, so I wouldn't insist on people trying.).

War system needs to a system where objective analysis takes place over subjective analysis. I don't care one jot or tittle what the GMs think about the squiggles and sqauggles of future technology. I do care that they have a system in hand to allow them to make a judgement based on objective facts and not speculation.

 

Get rid of any technology older than 2013.

 

Create advantages in size of air force and navy due to infra versus due to technology and then close the technology gap from 2013 to 2000.

 

Bigger nations get more toys because they are bigger and can afford to build them.

 

Smaller nations get less toys because they are smaller.

 

Last, I've come to the opinion that as no one here rps economy in any great detail we've done ourselves a disservice. Many problems in cnrp could be rped out via an embargo. I want some sort of roll system put into place that decides just how much a nation's abilities to field modern equipment deteriorates over time due to an embargo. If the embargo is insufficient to close all the holes, then the rolls should reflect that in favor of the embargoed nation, if the forces arrayed are sufficient the rolls should favor the nation/nations doing the embargo.

 

Those be my thoughts on all of this.

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

War system needs to be user friendly.
War system needs to be easy to use.

What is the difference?

War system needs to be designed in a way that takes out part of the griping. (You'll never stop all of the griping, so I wouldn't insist on people trying.).

Each side will think they're right, so you'll always have griping. However, hopefully the griping can come from tactics and not from tech.

Get rid of any technology older than 2013.

I agree with you here, and luckily Triyun has shown willingness to go with this. While 2014 would be an ideal tech year, I am perfectly fine with the top tier going up to something like 2020. Give the top guys a little bit of a bump while stopping at a year where we have a fairly good idea of what will be available. It's much better than stopping at 2034 where everything is an unknown at that point.
 

Create advantages in size of air force and navy due to infra versus due to technology and then close the technology gap from 2013 to 2000.

We do have navy advantages for more infra (to reach multipliers, you need to hit both tech and infra requirements).

Bigger nations get more toys because they are bigger and can afford to build them.
 
Smaller nations get less toys because they are smaller.

Your military is tied up with your IG size and infra, not IC. Because of that, people who are big IG have the ability to be big IC.

Last, I've come to the opinion that as no one here rps economy in any great detail we've done ourselves a disservice. Many problems in cnrp could be rped out via an embargo. I want some sort of roll system put into place that decides just how much a nation's abilities to field modern equipment deteriorates over time due to an embargo. If the embargo is insufficient to close all the holes, then the rolls should reflect that in favor of the embargoed nation, if the forces arrayed are sufficient the rolls should favor the nation/nations doing the embargo.

While I definitely agree with you here, it is a lot of math and new rules, something most people on the internet are not in favor of. However, I would say that proposing this as an official policy is definitely worth a try.

[Mogar]

I support just about everything TBM suggested.

[Generalissimo]

Let's not kill each other's characters?

Mostly consensual roleplay?

Occasional courtesy?

[Captain Enema]

I honestly have no problem with character killing.

 

I oppose anything over 2013. If it isn't in service today, then it isn't used. I don't mean test planes either, fully deployed as of 2013.

 

The embargo thing could be done easily enough, up to X percent decrease in nation abilities over a set period of time. So for example, every 3 to 5 days of an embargo, a roll is made and up to 10 percent of your stuff goes offline due to equipment failures etc. The numbers are examples, no idea what would be fair.

 

 

I'm not talking about the infra modifiers we have now, I'm talking about increasing them and then decreasing the tech scale.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Tidy Bowl Man

[Mogar]

Let's not kill each other's characters?

Mostly consensual roleplay?

Occasional courtesy?

I'd also support adding these three, but based on the convo in #cnrp i think the majority of these should be automatic.

[Justinian the Mighty]

The embargo plan sounds kind of meh. You cant effectively embargo larger nations that have a lot of native resources. Even for smaller nations everyone has to participate in an embargo to make it work well.

[Triyun]

Or have a navy to blockade everyone.

[Mogar]

The embargo plan sounds kind of meh. You cant effectively embargo larger nations that have a lot of native resources. Even for smaller nations everyone has to participate in an embargo to make it work well.

sounds like real life.

[Captain Enema]

Clearly some nations are going to be a bit more difficult to embargo than others. That ought to be obvious.

[Justinian the Mighty]

Clearly some nations are going to be a bit more difficult to embargo than others. That ought to be obvious.

Apparently it isn't if you're suggesting an x% decrease in a country's ability to make war. Tianxia could withstand an embargo for a long time before it felt the effects. Russia's energy output could fuel its military during a war for years and Athens, the American commonwealth and Tianxia would be difficult to blockade. The best way to make embargos would be to use the honor system and we all know how well that works in cnrp. Edited January 15, 2014 by Justinian the Mighty

[Lynneth]

I'd just like to note that I agree with Melechs and TBM's posts.
Though no matter what happens on the military front, I'll keep my SCIENCE RPing up. That's the only thing keeping me here aside from a few specific persons and I don't wanna lose either.

[Centurius]

Honestly I don't mind sizing down the techscale, what I would propose is to go with something like from 1990 to 2020 on a logarithmic scale. Within that timeframe even the lowest tech nation gets at least 4.5 gen planes and even early F-22s while the highest tiers can not go beyond a 5th gen fighter with some slightly better enhancements and control system. We also have a solid idea of what is available in 2020 and all of it is very easy to wikipedia(they're all concepts in advanced stages of implementation already). What I would request is a certain transitionary period to be implemented. I for example am not going to have the time to rework all my technology in the upcoming 2 and a half weeks by virtue of having finals and I do think it will be difficult for every piece of tech to be downgraded from 2030 to 2020 in just a few days.

 

TBM with your embargo I think it's actually going to give larger nations a more significant advantage than they already do as Athens for example through its access to various minerals and fuel sources could quite easily live through and embargo and with Africa being a protectorate it would be impossible to blockade all my sources of the resources. Aztlan for example wouldn't be that hard to blockade. I'm not sure what war system you have in mind but I'm interested in the more simplified war system and look forward to your proposal.

 

I will also agree that in the past we have rolled people against their will for less than honest motivations. I am willing to restrict my wars to cases of defence or the obvious triggers like nuclear threats, genocide and similar.

 

When it comes to protectorates, I'm not sure I really have unreasonable expectations and most of them are built around avoiding a war with one of my former protectees. Just to list them; no giving away land(more specifically aimed at giving other continents bases), no crazy governments(as in not fascist genocidal or stalinist kill everyone) and if you go inactive the land reverts to me. If someone has specific objections to any of these I am willing to reconsider them. Beyond this I can only think of Rotavele and ishabad who I've actually denied land however if there is a popular movement to see them back I am also willing to reconsider that provided the same restrictions get followed.

 

As for rp'ing with others, that is a two way street. I am perfectly willing to rp with others and even opened a free area to roleplay in in the past. However few people took up that possibility and I can't exactly beg for someone to roleplay with. So if you had something in mind or just want to RP something in my territory. Send me a query or pm and we'll talk.

 

I think that covers about most of the concerns, if there is anything else

 

 

[Beauty]

Honestly I don't mind sizing down the techscale, what I would propose is to go with something like from 1990 to 2020 on a logarithmic scale. Within that timeframe even the lowest tech nation gets at least 4.5 gen planes and even early F-22s while the highest tiers can not go beyond a 5th gen fighter with some slightly better enhancements and control system. We also have a solid idea of what is available in 2020 and all of it is very easy to wikipedia(they're all concepts in advanced stages of implementation already). What I would request is a certain transitionary period to be implemented. I for example am not going to have the time to rework all my technology in the upcoming 2 and a half weeks by virtue of having finals and I do think it will be difficult for every piece of tech to be downgraded from 2030 to 2020 in just a few days.
 
TBM with your embargo I think it's actually going to give larger nations a more significant advantage than they already do as Athens for example through its access to various minerals and fuel sources could quite easily live through and embargo and with Africa being a protectorate it would be impossible to blockade all my sources of the resources. Aztlan for example wouldn't be that hard to blockade. I'm not sure what war system you have in mind but I'm interested in the more simplified war system and look forward to your proposal.
 
I will also agree that in the past we have rolled people against their will for less than honest motivations. I am willing to restrict my wars to cases of defence or the obvious triggers like nuclear threats, genocide and similar.
 
When it comes to protectorates, I'm not sure I really have unreasonable expectations and most of them are built around avoiding a war with one of my former protectees. Just to list them; no giving away land(more specifically aimed at giving other continents bases), no crazy governments(as in not fascist genocidal or stalinist kill everyone) and if you go inactive the land reverts to me. If someone has specific objections to any of these I am willing to reconsider them. Beyond this I can only think of Rotavele and ishabad who I've actually denied land however if there is a popular movement to see them back I am also willing to reconsider that provided the same restrictions get followed.
 
As for rp'ing with others, that is a two way street. I am perfectly willing to rp with others and even opened a free area to roleplay in in the past. However few people took up that possibility and I can't exactly beg for someone to roleplay with. So if you had something in mind or just want to RP something in my territory. Send me a query or pm and we'll talk.
 
I think that covers about most of the concerns, if there is anything else

So you admit that your guilty of what's been accused of you and what is your plan to fix it?

Also you've been accused of these things personally for way over the past year. However now that you realize that there are consequences and people will get you, you're playing mister apologetic and diplomatic. Where was this side of you before?

You knew about all of these problems and that you were doing wrong, but you didn't care enough to fix them because you had no one to answer to. I do hope you realize that says a lot about your character. Edited January 15, 2014 by Rotavele

[xoindotnler]

Makes me wonder how many people have been ran out and now moved on and no longer come here. Will those people get an apology retroactively?

 

As my nation is pretty much ran by a computer simulation I will await your arrival to get rid of "crazy governments" and ignore your world police views.