Declaration of War from the Viridian Entente

[The Zigur]

Personally I dont want to see terms on Pacifica, but when they have demonstrated such hostility and noncompliance with the standards of diplomacy, one has to wonder what plots of revenge are hatching as we speak. I can imagine the post war dread already as NPO slowly rebuilds its strength, poising for the attack.

It's not good from a stability perspective to end this war unfinished.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[WarriorSoul]

Personally I dont want to see terms on Pacifica, but when they have demonstrated such hostility and noncompliance with the standards of diplomacy, one has to wonder what plots of revenge are hatching as we speak. I can imagine the post war dread already as NPO slowly rebuilds its strength, poising for the attack.

It's not good from a stability perspective to end this war unfinished.

 

TIL: Rejecting terms is now hostility.

[The Zigur]

TIL: Rejecting terms is now hostility.

I have read the Farrin logs and you have too, lets stop pretending there was anything in your allied Emperor's demeaner that could be called diplomatic or even courteous.

[Hereno]

Raw defiance goes nowhere in negotiations, you might recall the tale of the former Gramlins alliance's ill fated attempt.  It's even more difficult when it is not merely your own nations on the line.

 

If I were NPO, I'd accept nothing less than white peace for entering on an MD clause. Feel free to quote me on that whenever it is relevant.

[Sephiroth]

Personally I dont want to see terms on Pacifica, but when they have demonstrated such hostility and noncompliance with the standards of diplomacy, one has to wonder what plots of revenge are hatching as we speak. I can imagine the post war dread already as NPO slowly rebuilds its strength, poising for the attack.

It's not good from a stability perspective to end this war unfinished.

You seem to be projecting what aggressions actions you would be doing for NPO. They're defense has been their priority for a long time. However NPO let you guys off with white peace when they were winning, if you now let them off with white peace things are even. if the next war has you guys fighting again, then both alliances could remember the white peace alliance from before and do the same for each other if they end up in conflict. 

This focusing on ways to cripple them with terms is what will make NPO not able to trust you guys.

You both need to show the ability win without giving them crippling terms for it to be even. As it is now they did you a favor in the last war during peace times, then now would be the time you repay that favor if you aren't the type to take advantage of people's goodwill to damage them further.

[WarriorSoul]

I have read the Farrin logs and you have too, lets stop pretending there was anything in your allied Emperor's demeaner that could be called diplomatic or even courteous.

 

We're not allied. :|

[The Zigur]

You seem to be projecting what aggressions actions you would be doing for NPO. They're defense has been their priority for a long time. However NPO let you guys off with white peace when they were winning, if you now let them off with white peace things are even. if the next war has you guys fighting again, then both alliances could remember the white peace alliance from before and do the same for each other if they end up in conflict. 
This focusing on ways to cripple them with terms is what will make NPO not able to trust you guys.
You both need to show the ability win without giving them crippling terms for it to be even. As it is now they did you a favor in the last war during peace times, then now would be the time you repay that favor if you aren't the type to take advantage of people's goodwill to damage them further.

I think you are a bit naive to think NPO ended the last war to establish a pattern of amicable warfare. I wasnt present on this planet during the war, but my understanding is they disrupted the war effort due their interests on the other side. In other words, they placed their own interests above their coalition.

Im not being conscended but if you saw Farrins logs you would not find any evidence to support your thesis. NPO remains a very real threat to peace if they want to be. Edited January 17, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[keeology]

 
We're not allied. :|

Activate RnR/NPO super secret MDAP :p

[Rush Sykes]

No, it really isn't.  NPO can easily afford a real offer of merit.  It's not our coalition's problem if they are not interested enough in peace to do so.

 

You would have a leg to stand on, in many of our opines... if it were not for those pesky screams from the tops of mountains to ANYONE who would listen in the early days of the war.... "this is not about NPO"... "this is about supporting Polar"...

 

You see.. when people lie about things they dont need to lie about.. the world takes note.... They could have just STFU in regards to NPO, let the war play out as everyone already knew it was(it was ALWAYS about NPO)... instead, they screamed it to anyone who would listen, that it was NOT about NPO. Now you come here and expect an alliance, whom the war was not about... to negotiate terms, rather than getting the exact same peace that was offered to everyone else who, as NPO did, just honored treaties.

 

Aggregate lesson to be learned? Do not say things when you dont need to say them.

[The Zigur]

I think you are going deep into conspiracy theory territory here Rush. There is no real evidence to prove that this war was intended to target NPO. However, conditions change in war and new objectives have to be set as the enemy counters. Lets keep this discussion to rational standards.

[Neo Uruk]

I think you are going deep into conspiracy theory territory here Rush. There is no real evidence to prove that this war was intended to target NPO. However, conditions change in war and new objectives have to be set as the enemy counters. Lets keep this discussion to rational standards.

Rational standard; Terms are designed to punish a specific target that has either been decided upon or that has broke convention and then lost. NPO has not broken convention.

[The Zigur]

Rational standard; Terms are designed to punish a specific target that has either been decided upon or that has broke convention and then lost. NPO has not broken convention.

I happen to agree with you that NPO did not break convention. IAA also did not break convention when it activated it's MDP with GATO in 2008. Yet IAA got the worst terms.

 

You cant judge all warfare by the last handful of wars. Whether and why NPO entered is of no consequence. What does matter is that they still represent a likely strategic threat in the near future and thus the war must be waged longer. This fact is backed by both comparative statistics as well as Farrin accepting the role as his side's "coalition" leader and his conduct as such.

[Neo Uruk]

IAA: biggest strategic threat to NPO in the 1V-GATO war.

[RevolutionaryRebel]

If Tywinn has to scramble all the way back to 2008 for a reference point (a time when VietFAN still raged), then clearly there aren't any relevant case studies in recent history.

 

The terms presented are punitive. As such I find it most amusing that certain alliances privately mentioned by TOP/NpO coalition members as future targets (IRON, for starters) continue to support the war, despite knowing that they'll likely receive the same as NPO has. For NpO to insist upon punitive terms while allied to one of the last alliances in a global conflict to enforce punitive terms (against NpO no less) either demonstrates a subscription to an incredibly antiquated worldview, or the early stages of dementia. Of course, it's already been mentioned here that not all members of the NpO-TOP coalition agree with their current overall stance.

 

If you must be punitive, please pick more interesting terms, like a limited war. At least that would be entertaining.

Edited January 17, 2014 by RevolutionaryRebel

[Starfox101]

 

 

Think you're Ivan or something? Don't be such a !@#$@#$ !@#$% and buy some infra if you're gonna sit here and talk.

 

This about sums up every Rayvon post.

 

 

You would have a leg to stand on, in many of our opines... if it were not for those pesky screams from the tops of mountains to ANYONE who would listen in the early days of the war.... "this is not about NPO"... "this is about supporting Polar"...

 

You see.. when people lie about things they dont need to lie about.. the world takes note.... They could have just STFU in regards to NPO, let the war play out as everyone already knew it was(it was ALWAYS about NPO)... instead, they screamed it to anyone who would listen, that it was NOT about NPO. Now you come here and expect an alliance, whom the war was not about... to negotiate terms, rather than getting the exact same peace that was offered to everyone else who, as NPO did, just honored treaties.

 

Aggregate lesson to be learned? Do not say things when you dont need to say them.

 

Oh great, another "NPO was the real target" comment. Do you really have to say this in every topic? Can we just discuss something else for once? If not, go make a topic discussing this in a theoretical essay and we'll debate it's merits as a conspiracy theory.

 

Everyone is ragging on Tywinn, including myself, but by towing the party line and saying the same thing in every thread, you are not much better.

[BrJLa]

Oh great, another "NPO was the real target" comment. Do you really have to say this in every topic? Can we just discuss something else for once? If not, go make a topic discussing this in a theoretical essay and we'll debate it's merits as a conspiracy theory.
 
Everyone is ragging on Tywinn, including myself, but by towing the party line and saying the same thing in every thread, you are not much better.

Why do you have to insist in every thread that we weren’t? Dajobo has said fairly directly that the Polar coalition includes members that would not have naturally been aligned with Polar, and that their agenda in regards to NPO was the incentive that got them to join. Seeing that agenda unrealized is the only thing keeping this going.

[Sardonic]

You would have a leg to stand on, in many of our opines... if it were not for those pesky screams from the tops of mountains to ANYONE who would listen in the early days of the war.... "this is not about NPO"... "this is about supporting Polar"...
 
You see.. when people lie about things they dont need to lie about.. the world takes note.... They could have just STFU in regards to NPO, let the war play out as everyone already knew it was(it was ALWAYS about NPO)... instead, they screamed it to anyone who would listen, that it was NOT about NPO. Now you come here and expect an alliance, whom the war was not about... to negotiate terms, rather than getting the exact same peace that was offered to everyone else who, as NPO did, just honored treaties.
 
Aggregate lesson to be learned? Do not say things when you dont need to say them.

Don't look at me, NPO already made a peace offer that would have been sufficient for GOONS, but we are not the only stakeholder. Other people's reasons in this war are their own, GOONS is in it to support allies, not some undying vendetta to hit NPO over, and over and over again. (It gets old) Edited January 17, 2014 by Sardonic

[Branimir]

Oh great, another "NPO was the real target" comment. Do you really have to say this in every topic? Can we just discuss something else for once? If not, go make a topic discussing this in a theoretical essay and we'll debate it's merits as a conspiracy theory.

 

 

Seriously? I thought that by now, you would abandon your hilarious party line propaganda, when actions so blatantly showed what is up.

 

You can repeat your nonsense a thousand time, who in their right minds should get fooled? Or are you just trying to fool yourself?

 

 

Why do you have to insist in every thread that we weren’t? Dajobo has said fairly directly that the Polar coalition includes members that would not have naturally been aligned with Polar, and that their agenda in regards to NPO was the incentive that got them to join. Seeing that agenda unrealized is the only thing keeping this going.

 

Comrade. NpO is directly allied with people which primary agenda is only to hurt us and I am of a firm well substantiated opinion that sentiment is also shared, propaganda spam notwithstanding.

 

Actions speak louder then words. Words are cheap.

 

On the topic matter-- VE war rawr.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Branimir

[killjoy123]

What I learned from this thread is...
WHAT I LEARNED FROM THIS THREAD IS...

[Rayvon]

 
This about sums up every Rayvon post.

Aww oh noez I swearsesed again and offended your pwetty wittle sensitive ears. I so bads. Read back through my last how many posts? I told you, quit chasing me around - you can't catch me.

( Here - I'll help you .... http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=core&module=search&section=search&do=search&fromsearch=1 ) Edited January 17, 2014 by Rayvon

[Starfox101]

Aww oh noez I swearsesed again and offended your pwetty wittle sensitive ears. I so bads. Read back through my last how many posts? I told you, quit chasing me around - you can't catch me.

( Here - I'll help you .... http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=core&module=search&section=search&do=search&fromsearch=1 )

You got me. I am only here in this thread to respond to you, and I'll never catch you!

 

Seriously man, calm down. You show quite possibly the least respect to people around here. There are people here I don't approve of either, but I'm not going to lose my mind over it. Have some fun and don't age too fast.

 

 

Seriously? I thought that by now, you would abandon your hilarious party line propaganda, when actions so blatantly showed what is up.

 

You can repeat your nonsense a thousand time, who in their right minds should get fooled? Or are you just trying to fool yourself? 

 

 

"No, you are the one towing the party line!"

 

Which is...what, exactly? 

 

Why do you have to insist in every thread that we weren’t? Dajobo has said fairly directly that the Polar coalition includes members that would not have naturally been aligned with Polar, and that their agenda in regards to NPO was the incentive that got them to join. Seeing that agenda unrealized is the only thing keeping this going.

That would mean some in the coalition targeted NPO. Nowhere, in any sense of that statement attributed to Dajobo does he say NPO was our target. Given that we kicked off the war with a legit CB against someone other than NPO, I think you've found yourself a sufficient answer. 

Edited January 17, 2014 by Starfox101

[Rayvon]

You got me. I am only here in this thread to respond to you, and I'll never catch you!
 
Seriously man, calm down. You show quite possibly the least respect to people around here. There are people here I don't approve of either, but I'm not going to lose my mind over it. Have some fun and don't age too fast.

Yup you got me pegged, don't ya. You know everything about what I say and who I say it to? Bloody genius, ain't ya? Aww woops losing control. *ohmmmm* Center. Ok better.

Respect gets given where it's due; Tywin was given it when we first met, he quickly eroded it. You, aren't much better anymore either.

[Rush Sykes]

Don't look at me, NPO already made a peace offer that would have been sufficient for GOONS, but we are not the only stakeholder. Other people's reasons in this war are their own, GOONS is in it to support allies, not some undying vendetta to hit NPO over, and over and over again. (It gets old)

 

Thats all well and good, and I appreciate your position, but you do seem to be quite frequently finger pointing at NPO, when the totality of your opinion suggests you should be finger pointing at those allies you are supporting.

 

But you did just say a mouthful. NPO made an offer... and that offer came after the initial terms. So we are in agreement that it is now your allies turn to make the next move in negotiation. Which is really the only point I have a contention with. Your coalition made an offer... NPO made their counter offer. Lets stop pretending and posting that it is now NPOs turn. 

 

You were part of the coalition in the last war that was 95% unified in its exit stance, so you know where NPO allies are coming from this time. None of us are going to let them get shit on with terms by exiting and "trusting" those we know to be liars.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Rush Sykes

[The Zigur]

I think we are missing that this is a war of survival, not a vendetta. NSO coalition was plotting and scheming to take down Polar. NSO was reduced sufficiently but time has revealed NPO's shenanigans and fact that they have not been reduced as a threat sufficiently. A few months of PM for a few nations will not cripple NPO.

[Starfox101]

Yup you got me pegged, don't ya. You know everything about what I say and who I say it to? Bloody genius, ain't ya? Aww woops losing control. *ohmmmm* Center. Ok better.

Respect gets given where it's due; Tywin was given it when we first met, he quickly eroded it. You, aren't much better anymore either.

You've done nothing to earn respect, but, that doesn't mean I'm going to act like a fool when speaking to you. There's common decency and respect, and you lack both. 

 

In a year, you might very well end up allied to some of these people. Not worth being so angry at people for being on a different side. Hell, we were allied a year ago.

 

Tywinn is a handful. I've conspired against him while he was on my own side (Never thought those Vox elections were funny, Tywinn?). Still, he's better than nothing.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Starfox101