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New Polar Order recognition of war with TIO


EaTeMuP

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Yeah, that part by DDL is kinda ironic. Maybe now we could agree to a term where NATO, TIO and Sparta leave and agree not to reenter and then R&R doesn't have to come in and can aid US, XX, and the rest of its allies after this war? I really want to minimize the damage XX takes atm, as they are my third favorite bloc in the game and pretty close to US. (the ratings go US, AFM (I'm former MCXA) and then XX)

 

As to the arguments as to what side TIO and NATO took, if I were in charge it would have been a painful but easy decision to make. NSO was the original alliance declared on in this war, however NPO and NG were the main targets of this war. To me this means that TIO and NATO should be expected to defend NPO and take its side. I would prefer to be fighting alongside XX this war, b/c I would have preferred to make this war Eq round 2, but unfortunately that's not the hand we've been dealt.

I hear that. We're in pretty much the same boat. Sparta doesn't mind TIO or NATO. It's just an unfortunate circumstance of war.

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I'm not involved in the discussions, so I can't comment on counter offers (others should be able to though), but I'm not sure it matters at this point. This is the unfortunate part of war where the losing coalition doesn't have much bargaining power in regards to terms


Last I checked, TIO and NATO were beating up Sparta. They certainly aren't losing right now. So they have plenty of bargaining power.
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Last I checked, TIO and NATO were beating up Sparta. They certainly aren't losing right now. So they have plenty of bargaining power.

You're right, we are getting beat up, which is why we threatened to call in our allies. It just so happens our coalition has more allies than yours does :P

 

lol@grub

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lol you're still toeing this line? Haven't you guys $%&@ed up enough to continue trying to push such retardation?

 

I mean, I'm flattered we've managed to grasp and maintain so much attention with minimal efforts - but you're butt$%&@ stupid if you really think anyone beyond your own membership believes it. 

 

How's the view from that grave?

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I remember it like it was yesterday when TIO were stalwart allies of Polaris, now Polar are hitting them. Have you forgotten how TIO burned for you? Disgusting.
Go get em, TIO.
 
o/

In case it wasn't already obvious, but TIO is in many ways a very different alliance to what it was back in those days. That was what, 2, 3 years ago when that treaty was last in effect? You're grasping at straws with that one.
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Uh oh.

Not liking where this will likely lead.

 

This war is like watching a train wreck.  I do not think I have seen a more poorly planned cluster in all my time on Bob.  We may not even have to wait for this war to end for the next one to break out.  

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It's not the number of allies you have, it's what you do with them.

As I said, we have been more than courteous to our enemies and our allies by not requesting defense from day one. Offer(s) were put on the table to avoid this situation, but they were rejected. Both parties failed to reach an agreement when a contingency plan was clearly in the works.  As you know, an alliance has to look out for itself first and foremost....even if that means things have to get messy.  If you don't look after yourself, nobody will. That's the unfortunate predicament we've been cautioning about up until this point.

 

As I also said, if TIO/NATO think we can come to an agreement, let's make it happen. AFAIK, Sparta or our allies really don't have overwhelming desire to trade blows with TIO/NATO.

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Yeah, that is true. But, to be fair, Valhalla and GOONS are still fighting NPO without being countered. You never really know what draw you are going to get in a coalition war as each treaty partner tends to focus on one alliance. Sparta's disadvantage was that majority of their allies were already in the war and engaged, making them an easier target for those looking to make a minimalist effort in the war.

To say that it was only chosen as a 'low-hanging fruit' within the initial war coalition is mildly disrespectful to both parties. Considering that Fark and others still hold treaty ties to members of US (or their allies; something that other alliances like IRON struggled with), it was inevitable that Sparta would be countered; this was back when the possibility of a limited war still abounded - it made sense to counter in ways that discouraged escalation beyond the initial war.

 

Though it's obvious by now that avoiding escalation was the inverse of what NpO and TOP desired.

 

I'm not sure if GOONS and Valhalla declared before or after TIO/NATO. In any case, given who close those two events were, the decision was likely made before that even popped up.

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Good posts by Ego and Supercoolyellow.

For others, let me give my 2 cents.

In any negotiation that happened or will happen (I am inactive so I am not in the loop), Sparta will of course have the upper hand. It is pretty clear what side will win this war. I am pretty sure that one of the reasons that TIO-NATO were not countered before was not just because many of our allies were engaged, but because XX would rather not fight US. For christ sake RnR was our brother months ago!

So I am sure that Sparta would rather have TIO-NATO (and possibly RnR) leaving this war quickly and with the least damage possible.

Am I saying that Sparta is beating TIO-NATO? Of course not. In addition of have engaged Pacifica, which is bigger and with good fighters, TIO+NATO have a bigger combined NS. Nonetheless, both sides are taking a considerable ammount of damage (surely Sparta is taking more but look at the stats).

But despite the isolated Sparta Vs TIO-NATO, all wars are coalition wars and at the end of the day, TIO-NATO and possibly our good friend RnR would be countered. It is pure math. Thats why in a negotiation Sparta will have an upper hand.

But why the drama? Polar joined as others certainly will. So grab a beer and enjoy the war.

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Last I checked, TIO and NATO were beating up Sparta. They certainly aren't losing right now. So they have plenty of bargaining power.

I think this is the crux of the problem.  Some in TIO/NATO think that the fact that we haven't called anyone else in on this front means they have the advantage in numbers and therefore more bargaining power.  The fact of the matter is that we have been fighting a war at a more than two to one disadvantage without calling in any allies because we respect the position of some of their allies, and we didn't want to drag them in. We still don't, but you can't use the artificial advantage that we've been willing to give you by keeping our allies out this whole war in order to leverage a "winning" peace for yourselves.  You guys chose the losing side of this war.  I'm not saying you made the wrong choice, but you have to live with the fact that our side is going to win, your side is going to lose, and the peace we settle will reflect that now or in the future. 

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In case it wasn't already obvious, but TIO is in many ways a very different alliance to what it was back in those days. That was what, 2, 3 years ago when that treaty was last in effect? You're grasping at straws with that one.

There used to be a time when TIO and Polar were very close, but I don't need to tell you this. I also don't need to tell you how that relationship ended. The simple fact is, Sparta was taking a lot of damage, and Polar felt it necessary to intervene. While I find this move to be generally detestable, I cannot say Polar are doing the /wrong/ thing.

 

That being said, perhaps this wasn't the best move on Polar's part. We all know the treaties that TIO holds and we all know that this complicates things for the Polaris coalition quite a bit. If it was me, and I assure you it was not, I would not have made this call, but hell, if the enemy coalition wants to do something dumb, who am I to tell them that they shouldn't do it?

Edited by Duke Nukem
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There used to be a time when TIO and Polar were very close, but I don't need to tell you this. I also don't need to tell you how that relationship ended. The simple fact is, Sparta was taking a lot of damage, and Polar felt it necessary to intervene. While I find this move to be generally detestable, I cannot say Polar are doing the /wrong/ thing.
 
That being said, perhaps this wasn't the best move on Polar's part. We all know the treaties that TIO holds and we all know that this complicates things for the Polaris coalition quite a bit. If it was me, and I assure you it was not, I would not have made this call, but hell, if the enemy coalition wants to do something dumb, who am I to tell them that they shouldn't do it?

Why did this post even happen
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This war is like watching a train wreck.  I do not think I have seen a more poorly planned cluster in all my time on Bob.  We may not even have to wait for this war to end for the next one to break out.  

 

When R&R enters, I may have to eventually declare war on myself somehow.

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Why did this post even happen


Sometimes it pays to be obvious. FFS, I didn't even know TIO and RnR were in a Bloc until eleven minutes ago. I was wondering why Polaris titled the thread the way they did and tried the old ploy of see they hit us first because of these words....Weak transparent crap but hey I guess to them it was worth a shot if you really didn't want to defend TIO that much.
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As I said, we have been more than courteous to our enemies and our allies by not requesting defense from day one. Offer(s) were put on the table to avoid this situation, but they were rejected. Both parties failed to reach an agreement when a contingency plan was clearly in the works.  As you know, an alliance has to look out for itself first and foremost....even if that means things have to get messy.  If you don't look after yourself, nobody will. That's the unfortunate predicament we've been cautioning about up until this point.


I meant more that even though our coalition is grossly outnumbered, coalition v. coalition the damage output has been fairly even. This is likely because your coalition has targeting problems. Even out numbered, for example, we've been able to cycle people in and out of PM to restock. That's pretty sad.
 

As I also said, if TIO/NATO think we can come to an agreement, let's make it happen. AFAIK, Sparta or our allies really don't have overwhelming desire to trade blows with TIO/NATO.


I just want to point out the hilarity of this statement in a DoW thread against one of those alliances. Edited by Farrin Xies
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 I just want to point out the hilarity of this statement in a DoW thread against one of those alliances.

TIO and NATO chose to join your coalition over joining the other one, you would let the entire coalition stay at war forever because one front is losing while the majority are winning? You guys couldn't have been seriously shocked that someone came in to exert more pressure onto US to bring them out of the war.

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TIO and NATO chose to join your coalition over joining the other one, you would let the entire coalition stay at war forever because one front is losing while the majority are winning? You guys couldn't have been seriously shocked that someone came in to exert more pressure onto US to bring them out of the war.


Nah just waiting for Polar to declare on everyone so we can all just come out of peace on them without having to declare......then we destroy Polar as was the original plan. Magicninja wins again..........

Nah, I just like casualties.
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I've been struggling to remain in the top 10% myself, I doubt I'm ever going to join you guys on the casualties race again, but Mogatopia was ahead of its time, my question still stands, Coalition planning does get messy sometimes but you can't sacrifice entire alliances because you have to step on some toes to reach peace.

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