Welcome to the Naughty Corner STA

[Judge X]

Have to agree with this post although I don't read too much in this situation. Emotions are running too high for rational conversation.

Agreed. Let's get back to doing what caused all of this. Fighting hard.

[The Warrior]

I'm not sure it's possible for you to get any (un)classier, IRON.

Farrin, come on. It's coalition warfare. This is what the coalition needed.

 

 

 

I congratulate STA on their chance to nuke RON cowards.

RON: nice work.

I congratulate you on your original insult.

 

Oh wait, no. Hasn't been original since 2007. Carry on.

Edited November 21, 2013 by The Warrior

[Varianz]

Obligatory brilliant political move. 

[JohnGulager]

Our children's children will remember this day

[The Warrior]

See you in five days. Thanks for letting me restock first.

Wanted to make sure you were ready to go bud. :) Our duels will be a thing of legend.

 

 

 

Warrior....dude....what is going on over there?

Hit me up in a PM bud.

[Third King]

Well, guess I didn't get in before the trolling, but here's to a good fight STA. Don't know much about you all, that's sure to change.

 

Rhizo, comm shep - No need to be disrespectful comrades. I know we don't make the calls, but ensure the manner in which they are carried out. 

[Jacob Reiffenstein]

Someone please hand me the gumboots, the bullcrap is pretty deep in here!

 

Firstly I'm sorry for being so late to this thread but I had important business to attend and have been out of contact with Bob for 24 hours. I'd like to set quite a few issues straight here.

 

STA and TPF had a great many people think they'd be on the our side or stay out, before this war started. They had allies and friends on both sides and I know damn well would not have had one word of criticism levied towards them if the chose to stay out. That said, they made a choice. I will stress that word CHOICE. When TPF and later STA entered I still refrained from criticism despite feeling pretty disappointed.

 

When I issued Polaris' declaration of war on NSO I knew we would get countered. A great many alliances had pledged their help and support and I am not about to crap on those people by protecting ANYONE who CHOOSES to be on the other side. I did know that IRON might be coming in on STA, because STA hasn't had a war in years and have large nations with large warchests and they really know how to use them.

Did I try hard to stop that? No I didn't try at all to stop it. I have watched Pez in particular troll the crap out of IRON for days in a display that matched any I have seen from NSO and as far as I'm concerned if someone wants to behave like that they can reap the rewards.

 

On to this feeling of being let down by us...

 

Guess what, when you cancelled our treaty we didn't want that. What we wanted didn't matter a shit to you though because it was what you wanted. Tyga, Imperator Emeritus of Polaris, before today hadn't even visited our boards for over six months. Meanwhile from that day you cancelled our treaty I have checked our embassy on your boards every working day without fail. Spare me the fake indignation that I wouldn't piss on the people expending their nations to help us and protect someone on the other side who wanted nothing to do with us beyond social talk.

 

Finally I will stress this again so you don't miss it. You are in this war and on that side by CHOICE. Tomorrow you will be in it by CHOICE as well and so on until you CHOOSE that you'd like to no longer be in it. It wouldn't matter if fifty alliances oA'd in because it would still be YOUR CHOICE as to if you are involved.

 

Stop blaming Polaris, or anybody else for your choices and own them. You know damned well if you did what I had wanted you would have been treatied to us and not on that side in the first place!

 

That's your spin, eh?  :lol1:

[ditchboy00]

I believe that in BR level they owe you some respect, as Pacifica's BR owes, for example, to TPF and Invicta, no matter the path they selected (Invicta), or will follow (TPF). I have a feeling that this is indeed the case for the majority of Polar, but this is not what I read here, hence my comment. Apart from that, in alliance politics level, this is war so everything goes ;)

We didnt like how they were treating us when we were allied. Why they would treat us better now that we are not allies is silly. Is what I was trying to say. Yes it is well known the way most feel it was a one way street in STA helping Polar, but that still doesnt mean they owe us anything. I for one have no love for Polar. If they have none for us I dont care.

[WarriorConcept]

Then y'all should stop whining and just throw down. It's a war, Bob knows we don't get enough of them.

[ditchboy00]

Then y'all should stop whining and just throw down. It's a war, Bob knows we don't get enough of them.

UPN gets in the way. 

[WarriorConcept]

UPN gets in the way. 

 

You've learned coalition warfare, congrats.

[ditchboy00]

You've learned coalition warfare, congrats.

I've known about it. Im just stuck up on this cross to not bother with that sort of thing ya know. 

[RandomInterrupt]

You are literally correct that Polar has no obligation to STA. It's just disheartening to see that after we took so many beatings for you through the years through a treaty that was clearly one sided in terms of benefit that you wouldn't do anything to assist us. I hesitate to call it that you owe us, but more akin to having enough respect for what we did for you to at least use pressure to prevent something like this from happening.
 
Again, you're part of a coalition that's trying to destroy us so you do not have any actual obligations to us. I personally just thought your honor would transcend not having a literal obligation to at least try and repay what we did for you through preventing massive oA chains. Oh well.
 
I'm not angry though. I want to reiterate that you have no technical obligations to us. If anything, it is my (and STA's fault) for feeling this way.

Frankly, it's because we expended both our political capital and our nations by defending Polaris for years, and since we ended our treaty, we'd been told several times by NpO that even though you knew it was over, you'd still protect us when push came to shove. Then, when that day came, you were unwilling to spend a little political capital on STA when you were absolutely in a position to do so. 
 
We'd never expect you to prevent us from being countered. That's absurd. Of course we should be countered by NADC's allies. But this? No. This is the sort of thing would wouldn't have been surprised to hear that you'd prevented once the war was over. Instead, we've heard that you approved of it. That's why we're disappointed. 
 
Perhaps it's my fault. Perhaps I misunderstood.
 
Good luck with your wars. I hope it's all worth it to you.

Remember that time you guys decided that you wanted to sever your alliance with us, and I told you that it was a one-sided decision? That I and Polaris had no desire to cancel the treaty? Remember when I offered to do whatever Polaris needed to do to repair our relations and salvage the treaty, but you refused to accept that the STA could in any way be at fault for any problem ever and refused to engage in any discussion that wasn't "Polar is 100% at fault and STA has never ever made a mistake"?

Because I remember. The STA decided to cancel their treaty and formal ties with Polar, and do it in a pretty unclassy fashion. And now, all of a sudden, you expect us to act like that didn't happen? You took action to cancel the treaty that bound us to assist you, and now you are upset that we aren't assisting you? I've long held your leadership to be irrational and overall poor, so this isn't at all shocking to me. Just further validates that I was right to not get too bent out of shape over the whole thing.

 

Also it's amusing that you lot immediately assume this is a Polaris plot, despite having no real information to know that and despite having no idea how proper coalition warfare works, as demonstrated in this thread and in years prior.

 

This shouldn't need clarification, but many of you don't pay attention so I'll do it anyway. I am retired fully and have had zero input on the planning or execution of this war. But I do understand the priorities of the New Polar Order. And those priorities are going to put our allies, our real actual treatied allies, above everyone that isn't an ally. To me that is our responsibility. We have signed agreements to defend and help certain alliances and we will do so to the best of our abilities. The rest of you are simply not as important. If you want to be on that list A. Go back in time and not deliberately take yourselves off the list or B. Rebuild the relationship instead of continually demonstrating and reinforcing why it failed in the first time.

Edited November 21, 2013 by RandomInterrupt

[Chimaera]

I'm pretty sure Polaris is who initiated this war Mompson and I'm pretty sure that Polaris is one of the main players behind the strategy your side is using, I'm not saying that this was Polaris idea, but I'm pretty sure Polaris agreed or at least put no objections to this, since I'm not seeing any formal protest from Polaris, considering also that two of the alliances used to chain IRON are your allies.

 

I hope your victory worth the kind of things your side, led by NpO is doing.

 

Actually, this was mostly my idea.  IRON is wasted on TLR.  STA needed countering.  War is war, D34th, you should know that by now.  oA chains were not the norm, at one time, but the political expectations of alliances at war have changed over the years.

 

Frankly, I find at least using treaties to be a far better alternative to the pathetic excuse for political gamesmanship that was used during the previous war. 

[Omniscient1]

 
Actually, this was mostly my idea.  IRON is wasted on TLR.  STA needed countering.  War is war, D34th, you should know that by now.  oA chains were not the norm, at one time, but the political expectations of alliances at war have changed over the years.
 
Frankly, I find at least using treaties to be a far better alternative to the pathetic excuse for political gamesmanship that was used during the previous war. 

Not going to lie Chimey, if you shit on me on the OWF and then asked me to declare on another target I'd likely tell you to go to hell. IRON always have been loyal to their allies and coalitions to a fault though.

Anyway, have fun IRON. STA has always been annoying.

[SpacingOutMan]

despite having no real information to know that and despite having no idea how proper coalition warfare works, as demonstrated in this thread and in years prior.

For what it's worth, I can second this. Dealing with STA in coalition channels (only happened once, but it certainly stood out) was painful.

[bmckenna]

I'm sorry, did everyone in TPF/STA just plain forget last war? You know, the one where NPO was berated after the war was over for putting the shielding from damage of their allies on "the other side" above the goals/desires of their own coalition - namely, bailing NG out of taking a beating? The coalition comes first. You do your best to avoid distasteful situations but when direct allies are on the other side of a war, that's often very hard to do. It's only business, nothing personal.

 

As previously mentioned, TPF in particular (and STA if they followed) had the opportunity to fight with us and our coalition in this war. We were obviously pushing for this to happen as quickly as possible as things unfolded. You decided to go another way, which is fine, but don't act like you didn't have a choice in the matter.

 

To whoever was complaining about the egregiousness of a 3x oA and/or 4x oA treaty to hit STA earlier in this thread - I believe the one against us was either 5 or 6 long by the end of the Grudge war.

[Fox Fire]

IRON o/

Calm down guys. War is hell. Get used to it. :)

[AlmightyGrub]

Dear STA

 

Thank you for the years of service and friendship to our alliance.  I consider it regrettable that we now find ourselves on opposing sides of a war but even the most passionate among us must consider the inevitability of conflicts arising when you and your allies place yourselves in such a position by virtue of obligations or otherwise.

 

It was a sad day for Polaris when you chose to end our relationship, but it was your choice to make, one earned in the hardest way possible over many years.  I rejoiced for you however when you cancelled the treaty, now you were finally free of the burdens you were forced to carry on our behalf, and you could choose to make your own way, choose your own path and engage in your own destiny without interference from Polaris and the constant drain that interference created on your resolve and resources.

 

Do we owe you something, I believe so, but this is not the time or the place to do so.  We commenced this war on NSO and her inevitable defenders requiring much support from current allies and even more support from their respective allies.  In this war we have a direct, measurable and indisputable obligation to our coalition.  Whilst it would be lovely to ride on your behalf, it is simply not possible.  I know from first hand experience the complications that arise when you make clever moves that compromise people who have agreed to help you.

 

The nature of warfare has significantly changed over the last few years, we are now approaching a point where it will actually make sense.  In war there are two sides, you are on one or the other or you are a bystander.  IF you are on side B you can not really expect side A to allow you any comfort or mercy and really you expect none at all.  Our prosecution of this conflict was largely enabled by someone being too clever by half in the last conflict, surely everyone including blind freddy can see the progression.

 

So STA, whilst I personally wish no harm to you, and I am sure 99.9% of our alliance would think in a similar manner, we are a small part in a larger coalition, whilst we can take some responsibility for things that transpire during this war, we do not pretend or even consider it desirable to attempt to control the efforts of the entire coalition even to assist you.  Any attempts to assist you hurt someone else, someone actually on our side, and as such will ultimately be detrimental to everyone concerned.

 

If you want to sign a treaty with us, and I do not suggest you do, as previously stated I believe you to be much better off without us, then do so.  If you do not want to be attacked, set your options to "I do not want to be attacked'', as e-lawyering regarding the concept of oA and so forth seem to have little effect on the declaration of war these days, especially post-event.

 

If you take exception to IRON's actions, I am pleased for you to do so, they are attacking you but not at our command or direction.  If you see my tanks in your backyard, then you will have every right to be aggrieved at Polaris, but that is not happening.

 

Good luck to the membership of STA.  You are free to burn to the ground for someone else this time and I am happy that is not Polaris.

[Varianz]

What's hilarious about all the Polar's posting "herpa derp gotta go all out in coalition warfare, no consideration for the other side, gotta make sure everyone on our side is protected" etc etc, is that they're completely ignoring the Sparta front out of fear of drawing R&R in. 

[Auctor]

It is almost as if they are employing a strategy.

[Varianz]

Almost!

[Auctor]

Those clever devils.

[Chimaera]

Not going to lie Chimey, if you shit on me on the OWF and then asked me to declare on another target I'd likely tell you to go to hell. IRON always have been loyal to their allies and coalitions to a fault though.

Anyway, have fun IRON. STA has always been annoying.

 

To be fair, Omni, I've been saying similar things about 95% of alliances so far this war.  Nothing unusual about IRON's behavior or my reaction to it.

[pezstar]

Dear STA
 
Thank you for the years of service and friendship to our alliance.  I consider it regrettable that we now find ourselves on opposing sides of a war but even the most passionate among us must consider the inevitability of conflicts arising when you and your allies place yourselves in such a position by virtue of obligations or otherwise.
 
It was a sad day for Polaris when you chose to end our relationship, but it was your choice to make, one earned in the hardest way possible over many years.  I rejoiced for you however when you cancelled the treaty, now you were finally free of the burdens you were forced to carry on our behalf, and you could choose to make your own way, choose your own path and engage in your own destiny without interference from Polaris and the constant drain that interference created on your resolve and resources.
 
Do we owe you something, I believe so, but this is not the time or the place to do so.  We commenced this war on NSO and her inevitable defenders requiring much support from current allies and even more support from their respective allies.  In this war we have a direct, measurable and indisputable obligation to our coalition.  Whilst it would be lovely to ride on your behalf, it is simply not possible.  I know from first hand experience the complications that arise when you make clever moves that compromise people who have agreed to help you.
 
The nature of warfare has significantly changed over the last few years, we are now approaching a point where it will actually make sense.  In war there are two sides, you are on one or the other or you are a bystander.  IF you are on side B you can not really expect side A to allow you any comfort or mercy and really you expect none at all.  Our prosecution of this conflict was largely enabled by someone being too clever by half in the last conflict, surely everyone including blind freddy can see the progression.
 
So STA, whilst I personally wish no harm to you, and I am sure 99.9% of our alliance would think in a similar manner, we are a small part in a larger coalition, whilst we can take some responsibility for things that transpire during this war, we do not pretend or even consider it desirable to attempt to control the efforts of the entire coalition even to assist you.  Any attempts to assist you hurt someone else, someone actually on our side, and as such will ultimately be detrimental to everyone concerned.
 
If you want to sign a treaty with us, and I do not suggest you do, as previously stated I believe you to be much better off without us, then do so.  If you do not want to be attacked, set your options to "I do not want to be attacked'', as e-lawyering regarding the concept of oA and so forth seem to have little effect on the declaration of war these days, especially post-event.
 
If you take exception to IRON's actions, I am pleased for you to do so, they are attacking you but not at our command or direction.  If you see my tanks in your backyard, then you will have every right to be aggrieved at Polaris, but that is not happening.
 
Good luck to the membership of STA.  You are free to burn to the ground for someone else this time and I am happy that is not Polaris.

Thank you for this, and from the last person I expected to see it from. Truly, thank you.