Montosh Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 So the very best IRON can do is refuse to honor a treaty, admit they never planned to in the first place, and just never cancel the treaty or bother to let anyone know? You should put that in your recruitment messages. This whole thing didn't happen as was expected. We didn't have to come to their defense by the way. We always add non-chaining to our treaties for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Whatever you say :rolleyes: I'm actually not a coward, and to accuse IRON of being cowards after going in and attacking a bunch of neutrals, it's sad. Believe what you want, but IRON did the best it could with the shitty situation we were given.Yes, I joined a small group to attack a much bigger group. What a coward I am!To accuse IRON of being cowards is correct, as you are not defending your ally in NG, who was hit without any prior-known treaty by LoSS. Hell, you wouldn't even help negotiate a peace where LoSS couldn't re-enter the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolay Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 This whole thing didn't happen as was expected. We didn't have to come to their defense by the way. We always add non-chaining to our treaties for a reason. Non-chaining clauses apply only where chaining has occurred. LoSS, however, didn't chain in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montosh Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Yes, I joined a small group to attack a much bigger group. What a coward I am! To accuse IRON of being cowards is correct, as you are not defending your ally in NG, who was hit without any prior-known treaty by LoSS. Hell, you wouldn't even help negotiate a peace where LoSS couldn't re-enter the war. Yes we did. LoSS agreed to peace out and not reenter. NG refused the offer. Non-chaining clauses apply only where chaining has occurred. LoSS, however, didn't chain in. Yes, they had a treaty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Yes we did. LoSS agreed to peace out and not reenter. NG refused the offer.They agreed to not redeclare on NG, did they not? That's different from agreeing not to reenter period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montosh Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 They agreed to not redeclare on NG, did they not? That's different from agreeing not to reenter period. I believe they did agree not to reenter period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander shepard Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 They agreed to not redeclare on NG, did they not? That's different from agreeing not to reenter period. Why should LoSS surrender completely from the war, I think that is what you're trying to say. No one except LoSSes enemies have a right to give them terms not to reenter at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysistrata Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) Your inactiveness shows. IRON told NG well in advance they wouldn't be fighting if they carried on their path, war starts and non-chaining clause takes effect. LoSS which is apperently an independant and on no side (according to the "losing side") declared on NG, since most treaties have any or all assistance on them as a given, rather than commit forces they make a deal to have LoSS removed from the war and not to rejoin again, which NG rejected henceforth refused IRON assistance of getting LoSS to stop hitting them. NG refused to peace out with the LoSS deal, by instead choosing to hold a gun to IRON's head which people are willfully ignoring, somehow makes NG the good guys and IRON the evil guys. Defence of an ally doesn't have to be by military it can be by diplomacy IRON chose the latter. IRON then does what they planned to do and the tears begin. :rolleyes: You should go back to inactiveness if you can't view the whole story without towing the coalition line. Wow... Hammer meets Head. Just when you think the lunatics have taken over the asylum... a grown up walks into the room. Thank you Sir for actually thinking things through. I admire your integrity, it's a rare find on these pages. Edited November 17, 2013 by Lysistrata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunny Side King Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I believe they did agree not to reenter period. Ummm ya that's BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbies0310 Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Blatantly refuse to defend your ally via MDP when requested, then oA in on an alliance defending your ally... Im confused at how anyone of you pathetic people are defending this act of cowardice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I believe they did agree not to reenter period.No they didn't.That was the entire point of NG refusing; if LoSS can redeploy on another front and "switch roles" with another alliance that can instead go on NG, then there is absolutely no benefit for NG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freelancer Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Ill be honest and say that I have been away for some time due to lack of time IRL / interest, I dont even know what this war is over I just turned up for the party. Wow, I was just speaking about you to a colleague and reminiscing of the old day's. Low and Behold I see you haven't lost that special flare your famous for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrash Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I wish I was allowed to do a one word post, because that one word would be: lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Yes, they had a treaty. Who is suppose to believe that? Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Warrior Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) I will agree that it would have been better to cancel the treaty beforehand. That is not in dispute. Hindsight is always 20/20. We made a mistake. I'm sure no one else has ever done the same. : Yes, I joined a small group to attack a much bigger group. What a coward I am!To accuse IRON of being cowards is correct, as you are not defending your ally in NG, who was hit without any prior-known treaty by LoSS. Hell, you wouldn't even help negotiate a peace where LoSS couldn't re-enter the war. What the $&@! are you talking about? We negotiated with LoSS to get them off of NG. It is not our job to protect your entire coalition from the evil forces of LoSS or hell even to defend NG's other allies for that matter. Our job was to assist NG which we did through diplomatic means. The fact that our assistance was rejected is not our fault. Edited November 17, 2013 by The Warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWilliam Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 And this, ladies and gentlemen, portrays gloriously the pitfalls of cutthroat politics as employed by 90% of alliances. Treaty whoring to varying, often conflicting sides of the web (and failing to rectify the situation when it's apparently so) may guarantee your survival and leave you plenty of options when war rears its head, but as demonstrated here it can also force you to forsake allies and look like shit. Welcome to the world you've all helped to perpetuate. And welcome to your own personal hell, IRON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Yes, I joined a small group to attack a much bigger group. What a coward I am!To accuse IRON of being cowards is correct, as you are not defending your ally in NG, who was hit without any prior-known treaty by LoSS. Hell, you wouldn't even help negotiate a peace where LoSS couldn't re-enter the war. Since apparently the situation is public now: You can not negotiate a peace for someone who refuses to accept it. I begrudgingly like NG, but damn that was the worse negotiation logs I've seen since Peggy Sue tried to get into a war with GOONS. It was abundantly clear that NG was attempting to use the situation in order to draw IRON into a war with LoSS. That was the exact opposite if what gathering in that room was for. That's not NG's fault, because I would have done the same, but those logs are a running joke now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I believe they did agree not to reenter period.lol @ you What the $&@! are you talking about? We negotiated with LoSS to get them off of NG. It is not our job to protect your entire coalition from the evil forces of LoSS or hell even to defend NG's other allies for that matter. Our job was to assist NG which we did through diplomatic means. The fact that our assistance was rejected is not our fault. Since apparently the situation is public now:You can not negotiate a peace for someone who refuses to accept it. I begrudgingly like NG, but damn that was the worse negotiation logs I've seen since Peggy Sue tried to get into a war with GOONS. It was abundantly clear that NG was attempting to use the situation in order to draw IRON into a war with LoSS. That was the exact opposite if what gathering in that room was for. That's not NG's fault, because I would have done the same, but those logs are a running joke now.Allowing LoSS to run and declare on, say, GATO, and then have whoever declared on GATO to switch up and hit NG would be...not that fucking bright, now would it? If NG had accepted the complete bullshit attempt at peace given, nothing would have changed except the alliance affiliations piling onto NG. The most IRON did was a completely half-assed token attempt to look like an ally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander shepard Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 LoSS is allies with GATO, you need to sit down and have a glass of water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 LoSS is allies with GATO, you need to sit down and have a glass of water. By present world standards, that doesn't seem to matter much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunny Side King Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) Since apparently the situation is public now: You can not negotiate a peace for someone who refuses to accept it. I begrudgingly like NG, but damn that was the worse negotiation logs I've seen since Peggy Sue tried to get into a war with GOONS. It was abundantly clear that NG was attempting to use the situation in order to draw IRON into a war with LoSS. That was the exact opposite if what gathering in that room was for. That's not NG's fault, because I would have done the same, but those logs are a running joke now. They were not negotiating peace. They were demanding white peace from NG with no reentry between NG/LoSS. It serves us no benefit if we white peace and they declare on say, TLR or NoR, because that would still be putting more pressure on NG. Edited November 17, 2013 by Sunny Side King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 LoSS is allies with GATO, you need to sit down and have a glass of water.I pulled a random name from the war map, to be completely fair. I wasn't even thinking of political ramifications when I made that statement.But do keep in mind this is the second war in a row where LoSS has bandwagon'd against GATO just to keep from losing, so it wouldn't surprise me if they went that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander shepard Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I pulled a random name from the war map, to be completely fair. I wasn't even thinking of political ramifications when I made that statement.But do keep in mind this is the second war in a row where LoSS has bandwagon'd against GATO just to keep from losing, so it wouldn't surprise me if they went that route.The point being LoSS switching to another front was unlikely to have an impact on NG.They would have to enter with NPL or MCXA against someone else far enough away from NG on the war map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 They were not negotiating peace. They were demanding white peace from NG with no reentry between NG/LoSS. It serves us no benefit if we white peace and they declare on say, TLR or NoR, because that would still be putting more pressure on NG. It was more so you demanding them to peace out and agree to no re-entry... which is hilarious, given that you are in no position to make such demands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) The point being LoSS switching to another front was unlikely to have an impact on NG.They would have to enter with NPL or MCXA against someone else far enough away from NG on the war map.Implying that in modern war, treaties mean anything about where you fall in war (to the vast majority of alliances, at least) Edited November 17, 2013 by Neo Uruk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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