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IRON is the new ODN?


D34th
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I'm wondering if it's the orange sphere who make alliances turn in cowards and backstabbers:

 

[19:43] TheWarrior[IRON] Good evening the Actual Steve
 
[19:43] -->| DrSchrodinger xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #letschat
 
[19:43] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Sup
 
[19:43] TheWarrior[IRON] How are things?
 
[19:43] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Old man Derwood is an ex-Tri.
 
[19:43] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Cool to have them both in here?
 
[19:44] Steve_Buscemi[NG] I'm sure it will be.
 
[19:44] =-= Old man Derwood1 is now known as Old man Derwood1[NG]
 
[19:44] Old man Derwood1[NG] I can bow out if you want me to
 
[19:44] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Naw it's cool.
 
[19:44] Steve_Buscemi[NG] You up the level of sexy in this room.
 
[19:45] Old man Derwood1[NG] lol nice
 
[19:45] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Did you want to talk?
 
[19:47] BaronAaron[IRON] im always down to talk when im on iirc
 
[19:47] Old man Derwood1[NG] maybe for now I will listen
 
[19:47] BaronAaron[IRON] i certianly wanted to touch base about LoSS
 
[19:47] Old man Derwood1[NG] lol
 
[19:47] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Sure
 
[19:47] Steve_Buscemi[NG] I'm all ears.
 
[19:48] BaronAaron[IRON] have you changed your mind about them?
 
[19:49] Steve_Buscemi[NG] What?
 
[19:49] BaronAaron[IRON] the LoSS situation
 
[19:49] Steve_Buscemi[NG] NG's position is the same as when we talked before.
 
[19:49] BaronAaron[IRON] i figured
 
[19:49] Steve_Buscemi[NG] And honestly it's in IRON's best interest.
 
[19:49] DrSchrodinger If the situation hasn't changed, our opinions can change much.
 
[19:49] Steve_Buscemi[NG] As TOPsphere looks like it has another XX treaty lined up with Sparta.
 
[19:49] BaronAaron[IRON] i agree they can change
 
[19:50] Steve_Buscemi[NG] So, I still feel it's even in IRON's best interest to help with LoSS via our MDP of the treaty.
 
[19:50] BaronAaron[IRON] and i didnt help last night
 
[19:50] BaronAaron[IRON] and thats all the help i can give
 
[19:50] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Not to mention NG's.
 
[19:50] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Well, thank you for the help, but LoSS just wanted us to sellout our allies.
 
[19:50] BaronAaron[IRON] so if theres no change there then LoSS will continue to fight you
 
[19:50] Steve_Buscemi[NG] LoSS was planning on attacking them.
 
[19:51] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Well, if you do decide to attack LoSS via our MDP, they will not have much to attack us with
 
[19:51] BaronAaron[IRON] but we arent going to
 
[19:51] BaronAaron[IRON] i told you last night
 
[19:51] DrSchrodinger Well that is kind of assumed they'd fight us if they... you know... attacked us.
 
[19:52] Steve_Buscemi[NG] BaronAaron, I need to make sure this is clear.
 
[19:52] BaronAaron[IRON] I could get the to walk away. I know not a great solution but its the only solution i can offer
 
[19:52] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Is IRON not going to defend NG against LoSS?
 
[19:52] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Is that the voted on position of IRON?
 
[19:52] BaronAaron[IRON] no
 
[19:52] BaronAaron[IRON] not with our nations
 
[19:52] Steve_Buscemi[NG] We are asking for military assistance on LoSS.
 
[19:52] BaronAaron[IRON] we do not offer military assistance

 
[19:53] Steve_Buscemi[NG] The MDP part of the treaty is for Mutual Defense of an ally.
 
[19:53] BaronAaron[IRON] and the defense i offered you are refusing
 
[19:53] Steve_Buscemi[NG] So, has IRON voted on giving us military assistance and attacking LoSS, with your nations?
 
[19:53] BaronAaron[IRON] yes
 
[19:53] BaronAaron[IRON] we vote no
 
[19:53] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Okay, so you willfully violating our treaty.
 
[19:54] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Do you speak for the IRON council?
 
[19:54] BaronAaron[IRON] i do
 
[19:55] BaronAaron[IRON] for what its worth i am sorry
 
[19:55] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Okay, I'm going to post these logs to our high gov.
 
[19:55] Steve_Buscemi[NG] And ask for confirmation in our PM chat.
 
[19:56] BaronAaron[IRON] roger that
 
[19:56] BaronAaron[IRON] anything else you want to talk about?
 
[19:56] BaronAaron[IRON] like more than LoSS
 
[19:57] Steve_Buscemi[NG] I regret to say this, but you just
violated our the mutual military assistance provision in our MDoAP
treaty by not activating the MDP part of it at our request.
 
[19:57] Old man Derwood1[NG] if I can ask a question, and I have
heard many things about this but I would like it direct from you: why
are you not defending us?
 
[19:58] BaronAaron[IRON] becasue for months we told you this was going to happen
 
[19:58] BaronAaron[IRON] because for months your old gov put you in a bad posisiton
 
[19:58] BaronAaron[IRON] because we have committed to the otherside
 
[19:58] BaronAaron[IRON] and we arent switching sides in the middle of a war
 
[19:58] BaronAaron[IRON] because i have allies on both sides
 
[19:59] BaronAaron[IRON] because as this war took off in a different direction than the one IRON had planned
 
[19:59] BaronAaron[IRON] word was sent to NG
 
[19:59] BaronAaron[IRON] and they disreguarded siad message
 
[20:00] Old man Derwood1[NG] that it?
 
[20:00] BaronAaron[IRON] yeah
 
[20:00] Old man Derwood1[NG] ok your logic makes no sense
 
[20:00] BaronAaron[IRON] i want to work something out here
 
[20:01] Old man Derwood1[NG] you told us months ago this would happen yet the war went a different direction
 
[20:01] Steve_Buscemi[NG] There is nothing more to work out if you do not want to help us with military assistance.
 
[20:02] Steve_Buscemi[NG] I don't think there is much more to discuss here, if allies don't live up to their obligations
 
[20:02] Old man Derwood1[NG] you clearly chose your side a while back yet you did not cancel on us, why? hedging your bet?
 
[20:02] BaronAaron[IRON] i can do more than just burn next to you
 
[20:02] Old man Derwood1[NG] lol
 
[20:02] BaronAaron[IRON] this war is lost
 
[20:02] BaronAaron[IRON] the Actual Steve tried to start a PM on my boards
 
[20:02] Old man Derwood1[NG] this is amateur hour Steve_Buscemi[NG]
 
[20:02] Old man Derwood1[NG] whoops wrong room
 
[20:02] BaronAaron[IRON] his numbers still dont add up to our numbers
 
[20:03] BaronAaron[IRON] its all good
 
[20:03] Steve_Buscemi[NG] But yet you've offered NO actual alliances that don't line up.
 
[20:03] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Just "we don't agree"
 
[20:03] Steve_Buscemi[NG] But this isn't about that.
 
[20:03] BaronAaron[IRON] we did choose our side a long time ago
 
[20:03] Steve_Buscemi[NG] It's about honoring a MDP.
 
[20:03] Steve_Buscemi[NG] This is about honoring a MDP, plain and simple
 
[20:03] Old man Derwood1[NG] wait!!!!!
 
[20:03] BaronAaron[IRON] and we are honoring it the just not the way you want it honored
 
[20:03] Old man Derwood1[NG] <BaronAaron[IRON]> we did choose our side a long time ago
 
[20:03] Old man Derwood1[NG] yet you kept our treaty
 
[20:03] Old man Derwood1[NG] in bad faith
 
[20:04] Old man Derwood1[NG] seriously
 
[20:04] Steve_Buscemi[NG] Exactly.
 
[20:04] Old man Derwood1[NG] your are a liar
 
[20:04] Old man Derwood1[NG] and untrustworthy
 
[20:04] Old man Derwood1[NG] can we get someone else to talk to or are you par forr the course these days at IRON
 
[20:04] Old man Derwood1[NG] you used us
 
[20:04] Old man Derwood1[NG] you just admitted it
 
[20:05] BaronAaron[IRON] yes. TOP and friends were coming after
you. All of our talks (brief they were) where about them coming after
you and IRON saying we do not have your backs on this one. Your old gov
spit in our faces and now here we are. We tried to change this whole
war. You all jumped in with 2 feet.
 
[20:05] BaronAaron[IRON] der you can leave if you want
 
[20:05] BaronAaron[IRON] you arent being helpful
 
[20:05] Old man Derwood1[NG] no because I am calling you out
 
[20:06] BaronAaron[IRON] i have called myself ouy
 
[20:06] BaronAaron[IRON] you are not going to get military assistance
 
[20:06] BaronAaron[IRON] i can negotiate for you
 
[20:06] Old man Derwood1[NG] lol
 
[20:06] Old man Derwood1[NG] you set us up
 
[20:06] Old man Derwood1[NG] you are no better then Grub
 
[20:07] BaronAaron[IRON] we set up a brawl between NG and TOP
 
[20:07] BaronAaron[IRON] then things changed 2 days prior to the DoWs
 
[20:07] BaronAaron[IRON] and the set up changed and you all had 2 choices
 
[20:07] BaronAaron[IRON] let NSO burn
 
[20:07] BaronAaron[IRON] or jump in with both feet
 
[20:07] BaronAaron[IRON] now you are balls deep in the shit and i cant help
 
[20:08] Old man Derwood1[NG] no you won't help
 
[20:08] BaronAaron[IRON] i concur IRON will not help militarily
 
[20:09] Old man Derwood1[NG] I really have not seen such deception
between "allies" since ole Grubby pulled his shit with TOP....imagine
that
 
[20:09] DrSchrodinger Baron, I just sent you a message in game. If you don't mind, could you please reply with anything?
 
[20:10] BaronAaron[IRON] you call it deception
 
[20:10] BaronAaron[IRON] i call what NG is doing arrogance, ignorance, honor-bound and pride
 
[20:11] Old man Derwood1[NG] no its called honoring a treaty, something you know nothing about apparently
 
[20:11] BaronAaron[IRON] dr i hit you back
 
[20:11] BaronAaron[IRON] i have honored it
 
[20:11] BaronAaron[IRON] you dont like how i did
 
[20:11] BaronAaron[IRON] in 2 hours i had an entire AA off of you
 
[20:12] Old man Derwood1[NG] ok lets look at that
 
[20:12] Old man Derwood1[NG] why would you do that?
 
[20:13] BaronAaron[IRON] because I want to help you in some way
 
[20:15] DrSchrodinger So LoSS could get a free slap at us and walk
away like nothing happened, then, very likely, declare war on one of
our allies?
 
[20:15] Old man Derwood1[NG] exactly
 
[20:15] DrSchrodinger Believe it or not, we don't sell out allies just to get someone off our backs.
 
[20:15] DrSchrodinger We'd rather take the damage.
 
[20:16] BaronAaron[IRON] and thats where we are at
 
[20:16] Old man Derwood1[NG] you know why were are getting rolled right now?
 
[20:16] BaronAaron[IRON] and if you want to continue to fight LoSS then that is your right
 
[20:16] BaronAaron[IRON] but it is not my fight
 
[20:17] Old man Derwood1[NG] we are getting rolled because TOP and company knew you did not ahve our back
 
[20:17] Old man Derwood1[NG] you sold us out
 
[20:17] BaronAaron[IRON] even with IRON in your corner this is a lost conflict
 
[20:18] Old man Derwood1[NG] is that how you determine if you protect your allies?
 
[20:18] BaronAaron[IRON] i have many more allies on the other side
 
[2013-11-06 21:15:26] <Derwood1[NG]> you sold us out
 
[2013-11-06 21:15:44] <BaronAaron[IRON]> even with IRON in your corner this is a lost conflict
 
[2013-11-06 21:16:03] <Derwood1[NG]> is that how you determine if you protect your allies?
 
[2013-11-06 21:16:40] <BaronAaron[IRON]> i have many more allies on the other side
 
[2013-11-06 21:17:28] <BaronAaron[IRON]> this sucks all the way around
 
[2013-11-06 21:17:45] <Derwood1[NG]> I have another idea who and what sucks
 
[2013-11-06 21:17:54] <BaronAaron[IRON]> this entire war
 
[2013-11-06 21:19:34] <Derwood1[NG]> this is the most unbelievable
conversation I think I have ever had and I have been around for a long
time and have seen many things
 
[2013-11-06 21:19:53] <BaronAaron[IRON]> i concur
 
[2013-11-06 21:20:11] <Derwood1[NG]> lol
 
[2013-11-06 21:20:32] <BaronAaron[IRON]> in my years in IRON gov
this is the 2nd real conversation I have personally had with NG
 
[2013-11-06 21:20:41] <BaronAaron[IRON]> the first was last night
 
[2013-11-06 21:21:27] <Derwood1[NG]> probably because they keep you locked up lol
 
[2013-11-06 21:21:33] <BaronAaron[IRON]>
 
[2013-11-06 21:21:54] <TheWarrior[IRON]> I'm going to make a suggestion here. Let's take a step back really quickly.
 
[2013-11-06 21:22:33] <TheWarrior[IRON]> I want to preface this by
stating that I am not a member of the IRON Council but I serve IRON as
the Director of Diplomacy and as a member of IRON Milcom.
 
[2013-11-06 21:23:08] <TheWarrior[IRON]> What good do you honestly believe would come of IRON attacking LoSS?
 
[2013-11-06 21:23:19] <DrSchrodinger> We've already told you.
 
[2013-11-06 21:23:23] <DrSchrodinger> You've already said you don't believe us.
 
[2013-11-06 21:23:45] <TheWarrior[IRON]> And that was?
 
[2013-11-06 21:24:40] <DrSchrodinger> Oh! Sorry, I didn't notice a change in person.
 
[2013-11-06 21:25:03] <BaronAaron[IRON]>
 
[2013-11-06 21:25:16] <TheWarrior[IRON]> Indeed it is
 
[2013-11-06 21:25:25] <DrSchrodinger> I'll allow Steve to answer
if he is still here (he said something about having something to do), as
he has been the one most involved in discussions on your forums and so
on.
 
[2013-11-06 21:25:43] <TheWarrior[IRON]> Very well. I have been speaking with Steve there as well.
 
[2013-11-06 21:26:15] <TheWarrior[IRON]> Steve are you still here?
 
[2013-11-06 21:28:22] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> I am
 
[2013-11-06 21:28:26] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> Sorry I'm very busy.
 
[2013-11-06 21:28:31] <Steve_Buscemi[NG]> But I'll read logs.
 
[2013-11-06 21:29:11] <TheWarrior[IRON]> Ahh okay.
 
[2013-11-06 21:29:26] <TheWarrior[IRON]> Derwood or DS?
 
[2013-11-06 21:30:29] <BaronAaron[IRON]> come guys dont go silent on us
 
[2013-11-06 21:34:49] -->| dane0[NG] (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #letschat
 
[2013-11-06 21:35:04] <TheWarrior[IRON]> Hello dane0[NG]
 
[2013-11-06 21:35:12] <dane0[NG]> hei TheWarrior[IRON]
 
[2013-11-06 21:36:04] <TheWarrior[IRON]> How are you this evening?
 
[2013-11-06 21:36:12] <BaronAaron[IRON]> ahoy
 
[2013-11-06 21:36:29] <dane0[NG]> I'm pretty good. About to go to a meeting, but got some time to kil first
 
[2013-11-06 21:37:37] <BaronAaron[IRON]> so this chat has died off a bit
 
[2013-11-06 21:37:52] <DrSchrodinger> Baron...
 
[2013-11-06 21:38:10] <DrSchrodinger> If you don't want to wait
for Steve's reply, you're free to go. TheWarrior can handle this
conversation, I'm sure.
 
[2013-11-06 21:38:23] <BaronAaron[IRON]> i got about 3 hours
 
[2013-11-06 21:38:27] <DrSchrodinger> Oh good
 
[2013-11-06 21:38:30] <DrSchrodinger> Then you can be patient.
 
[2013-11-06 21:38:30] <BaronAaron[IRON]> and warrior isnt gov
 
[2013-11-06 21:38:32] <BaronAaron[IRON]> i am
 
[2013-11-06 21:38:34] <BaronAaron[IRON]> i can
 
[2013-11-06 21:38:46] <BaronAaron[IRON]> jsut wanted to make sure there was a reason to be here still
 
[2013-11-06 21:39:02] <BaronAaron[IRON]> im not expecting you all to like this conversation
 
[2013-11-06 21:39:21] <dane0[NG]> I'm reading through the logs now, sorry.
 
[2013-11-06 21:39:37] <dane0[NG]> I'm sure you all can carry on
without me though. I am just an advisor now, so it's not like my opinion
will matter
 
[2013-11-06 21:39:47] <BaronAaron[IRON]> its all good
 
[2013-11-06 21:40:07] <DrSchrodinger> Do you like this conversation?
 
[2013-11-06 21:40:27] <BaronAaron[IRON]> not at all
 
[2013-11-06 21:40:45] <BaronAaron[IRON]> the only silver lining from this shitty war is NG and IRON are talking
 
[2013-11-06 21:44:26] <dane0[NG]> Yeah I'm done with these logs. It's quite obvious where they're going.
 
[2013-11-06 21:45:12] <TheWarrior[IRON]> I know that Steve is AFK
at the moment but I really would like to take a step back.
 
[2013-11-06 21:45:31] <TheWarrior[IRON]> <@TheWarrior[IRON]>
What good do you honestly believe would come of IRON attacking LoSS?
 
[2013-11-06 21:45:50] <dane0[NG]> The honoring of a treaty for one thing
 
[2013-11-06 21:46:13] <DrSchrodinger> Steve is around. Iono what
is taking him so long to read through these. He likely got distracted
with the other half dozen things he's doing.
 
[2013-11-06 21:46:20] <DrSchrodinger> The guy does more than I do, anyway.
 
[2013-11-06 21:46:38] <TheWarrior[IRON]> No problem.
 
[2013-11-06 21:47:35] <TheWarrior[IRON]> We'd still be interested
to hear from you as well Schrodinger, if you'd care to comment.
 
[2013-11-06 21:48:09] <DrSchrodinger> I can only give a skeleton response. Steve has all the numbers and so on.
 
[2013-11-06 21:48:09] <TheWarrior[IRON]> dane0[NG], we understand that. How do you see things playing out from there?
 
[2013-11-06 21:49:01] <BaronAaron[IRON]> skeleton is fine
 
[2013-11-06 21:51:34] <DrSchrodinger> IRON attacks LoSS, it honors
its treaty as we would expect from an MD ally and as we would have done
for you if you had been attacked.
 
[2013-11-06 21:52:06] <DrSchrodinger> Numbers is what Steve has,
and he can defend that proposition. I believe there is some dispute over
their accuracy although we haven't heard any specific arguments against
them.
 
[2013-11-06 21:52:33] <BaronAaron[IRON]> DR there is a government chat on the IRON boards
 
[2013-11-06 21:52:41] <BaronAaron[IRON]> if you would like to join that
 
[2013-11-06 21:53:37] <BaronAaron[IRON]> but like i have said IRON is not switching sides like Polar
 
[2013-11-06 21:53:43] <BaronAaron[IRON]> and we are on the other side
 
[2013-11-06 21:54:01] <DrSchrodinger> Steve mentioned adding me to that conversation on your boards.
 
[2013-11-06 21:54:16] <BaronAaron[IRON]> who are you on my forums
 
[2013-11-06 21:57:04] =-= dane0[NG] is now known as zz_dane0[NG]
 
[2013-11-06 22:01:11] <DrSchrodinger> http://ironcentral.o...in-schrödinger/
 
[2013-11-06 22:03:39] <BaronAaron[IRON]> indeed
 
[2013-11-06 22:05:18] -->| Crusty_Juggler (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #letschat
 
[2013-11-06 22:06:09] <BaronAaron[IRON]> good evening CJ
 
[2013-11-06 22:06:23] <Crusty_Juggler> hi BA, gents
 
[2013-11-06 22:09:19] =-= zz_dane0[NG] is now known as dane0[NG]
 
[2013-11-06 22:09:25] <BaronAaron[IRON]> we were talking but then things went quiet
 
[2013-11-06 22:09:43] <BaronAaron[IRON]> they have a lot on their plate right now so we are hanging tight for the moment
 
[2013-11-06 22:09:54] <TheWarrior[IRON]> Steve was AFK for a bit
 
[2013-11-06 22:10:21] <DrSchrodinger> I think most of what needs
to be discussed has been. What more do you want to discuss? And also the
part with Steve coming in and out with AFK and so on.
 
[2013-11-06 22:11:16] <BaronAaron[IRON]> the LoSS situation has been discussed
 
[2013-11-06 22:11:24] <BaronAaron[IRON]> but there is still the rest of the war
 
[2013-11-06 22:12:13] <BaronAaron[IRON]> and our future and if their is still one between us
 
[2013-11-06 22:15:46] <DrSchrodinger> What more of the war is there to discuss?
 
[2013-11-06 22:16:02] <DrSchrodinger> You guys don't want to be involved, so what is there to talk about?

Edited by D34th
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IRON has more treaties on the polar side. It was obvious when NG and NSO started this war for the lulz, IRON was too classy to go along with that as Polar and co didn't do shit to them. They're not backstabbers they're classy and make educated decisions. Besides if you want to say its fucked up for IRON to vote down going in for NG, it's more fucked up for the NG government to pull in random members and try to bully their own allies into being a meat shield for them.

You made your bed NG, now it's time to lay in it with NSO.

On the other hand, act like jerks to everyone and then be surprised no one wants to help you.

Exactly. Don't fuck around with people and then act shocked your buddies won't put their ass on the line for it. NG reminds me of a prepubescent child that is just now discovering you reap what you sow. (see: MEAT)

Also D34th, you would be agreeing that NG is fucked up if you weren't on their side of the war this time around, Edited by Rotavele
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old logs are old, move on please

Still a good read though.

[2013-11-06 21:20:32] <BaronAaron[IRON]> in my years in IRON gov
this is the 2nd real conversation I have personally had with NG

[2013-11-06 21:20:41] <BaronAaron[IRON]> the first was last night

^ I love this guy, and no I'm not being sarcastic. Everytime I read NG's whining, he always comes back with remarks like that and it makes me grow more fond of him. Please promote this guy. Edited by Rotavele
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The fact that NG made their bed and totally deserve it doesn't change the fact that IRON knew about NG plans and nevertheless kept their treaty with them. It's always revolting to see alliances like Valhalla and IRON who keep treaties with both sides and always end choosing the easy way out to escape the rolling while throwing their allies under the bus. 

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IRON has more treaties on the polar side. It was obvious when NG and NSO started this war for the lulz, IRON was too classy to go along with that as Polar and co didn't do shit to them. They're not backstabbers they're classy and make educated decisions. Besides if you want to say its fucked up for IRON to vote down going in for NG, it's more fucked up for the NG government to pull in random members and try to bully their own allies into being a meat shield for them.

You made your bed NG, now it's time to lay in it with NSO.

Exactly. Don't fuck around with people and then act shocked your buddies won't put their ass on the line for it. NG reminds me of a prepubescent child that is just now discovering you reap what you sow. (see: MEAT)

Also D34th, you would be agreeing that NG is fucked up if you weren't on their side of the war this time around,

 

We saw what Caustic was doing. We dont agree with what they were doing. However we hold a MDoAP with an alliance on the losing side. That still means something to maybe 3-4 alliances out there. 

Edited by ditchboy00
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The fact that NG made their bed and totally deserve it doesn't change the fact that IRON knew about NG plans and nevertheless kept their treaty with them. It's always revolting to see alliances like Valhalla and IRON who keep treaties with both sides and always end choosing the easy way out to escape the rolling while throwing their allies under the bus. 

That's because war and politics shouldn't define who your friends with. You shouldn't cancel a treaty simply because people want you to. Even if IRON played by your standards of treaties, IRON would need to cancel on VE, Fark, INT, and Valhalla too of they came in for NG. If it's not obvious by now Valhalla even let NG know they wouldn't be saving their ass in this war. Actually the only reason NG and NSO didn't fuck up polar before this war is because they didn't have IRON signed on as a meat shield yet.

 
We saw what Caustic was doing. We dont agree with what they were doing. However we hold a MDoAP with an alliance on the losing side. That still means something to maybe 3-4 alliances out there. 

You came in for your ally but that's the thing, you only have one ally. If you had 8: 3 on one side, 5 on the other, and one of those three asks for help; and throws a bitch fit and squeals and dumps logs on the forums, what are you going to do? Edited by Rotavele
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Honestly, this could have been avoided. Treaties exist because there's a mutual committment, and a cancellation would have avoided this whole situation.


Yeah there's also intelligence clauses in most MDoAPs, and IRON even told NG what they were doing is dumb as shit. So I guess NG violated the treaty first. Also there's still the nail on the head that IRON has more treaties on the other side. Edited by Rotavele
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That's because war and politics shouldn't define who your friends with. You shouldn't cancel a treaty simply because people want you to. Even if IRON played by your standards of treaties, IRON would need to cancel on VE, Fark, INT, and Valhalla too of they came in for NG. If it's not obvious by now Valhalla even let NG know they wouldn't be saving their ass in this war. Actually the only reason NG and NSO didn't fuck up polar before this war is because they didn't have IRON signed on as a meat shield yet.


You came in for your ally but that's the thing, you only have one ally. If you had two and one on both side of the war asking for help, wtf are you going to do?

 

Rotavele, when you are ignorant about something, the best route is keep quiet. We do have allies in both sides of this war, we also could have choose the easy route and joined the bigger side, but we are STA and we don't abandon friends just because we love our stats, if we sign a treaty with someone, we are committed with that alliance in both good and bad times. The sad thing is that this should be a common thing, not something to brag about, but unhappily in CN be a backstabber is the normal thing to do while the loyal alliances are the freaks.

 

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That's because war and politics shouldn't define who your friends with. You shouldn't cancel a treaty simply because people want you to. Even if IRON played by your standards of treaties, IRON would need to cancel on VE, Fark, INT, and Valhalla too of they came in for NG. If it's not obvious by now Valhalla even let NG know they wouldn't be saving their ass in this war. Actually the only reason NG and NSO didn't fuck up polar before this war is because they didn't have IRON signed on as a meat shield yet.


You came in for your ally but that's the thing, you only have one ally. If you had two and one on both side of the war asking for help, wtf are you going to do?

I dont know. Good thing we are not allied to UPN who is on the other side. I dont know what we would have done then. This is getting side tracked to being about STA because of D34th some how. IRON should have just cancelled before the war it sounds like.

Edited by ditchboy00
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Rotavele, when you are ignorant about something, the best route is keep quiet. We do have allies in both sides of this war, we also could have choose the easy route and joined the bigger side, but we are STA and we don't abandon friends just because we love our stats, if we sign a treaty with someone, we are committed with that alliance in both good and bad times. The sad thing is that this should be a common thing, not something to brag about, but unhappily in CN be a backstabber is the normal thing to do while the loyal alliances are the freaks.

 

I dont know. Good thing we are not allied to UPN who is on the other side. I dont know what we would have done then.


I was going by the Wikis treaty list; UPN also didn't need help I'm assuming. If they did and you went to save TPF, then that's messed up and equally as bad.

However if you had more allies and a majority of them were on the other side, then you should reserve yourself for that side in my opinion.
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The fact that NG made their bed and totally deserve it doesn't change the fact that IRON knew about NG plans and nevertheless kept their treaty with them. It's always revolting to see alliances like Valhalla and IRON who keep treaties with both sides and always end choosing the easy way out to escape the rolling while throwing their allies under the bus.

We were going to get rolled? who was going to do that?
 

We saw what Caustic was doing. We dont agree with what they were doing. However we hold a MDoAP with an alliance on the losing side. That still means something to maybe 3-4 alliances out there.

I have to wonder why you have non chaining treaties if you treat them the same as chaining treaties.
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This is very simple if your plan is to fuck over your ally before a war starts, then cut the treaty.  Thier are no sides.  Their are half assed coaltions.  What is most pathetic here is IRON plotted to scew over NG with its enemies before the war.  I have been a friend and defender of IRON since my arrival on Planet Bob and I do not even like NG but, this is just pathetic.  When a big war is coming and you want to be on one side of a coaltion you make sure that coalitions plan keeps your treaty in mind.  If your coalition is complete disaster like this one you honor your damn treaties.  If you know a war is coming and you are going screw over a treaty partner cancel the treaty.  LoSS entered on an optional agression clause, they were not defending anybody.  How do you sit by and allow that?  I get this war is a compete mess and if somebody had a plan they screwed it up so bad that its just a big cluster.  When that happens you honor treaties and ride it out.  You could have cut that treaty knowing and colluding with the enemies of you treaty partner.  You chose not to.  Sad to see the day when IRON became on of those alliances.

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This is very simple if your plan is to fuck over your ally before a war starts, then cut the treaty.  Thier are no sides.  Their are half assed coaltions.  What is most pathetic here is IRON plotted to scew over NG with its enemies before the war.  I have been a friend and defender of IRON since my arrival on Planet Bob and I do not even like NG but, this is just pathetic.  When a big war is coming and you want to be on one side of a coaltion you make sure that coalitions plan keeps your treaty in mind.  If your coalition is complete disaster like this one you honor your damn treaties.  If you know a war is coming and you are going screw over a treaty partner cancel the treaty.  LoSS entered on an optional agression clause, they were not defending anybody.  How do you sit by and allow that?  I get this war is a compete mess and if somebody had a plan they screwed it up so bad that its just a big cluster.  When that happens you honor treaties and ride it out.  You could have cut that treaty knowing and colluding with the enemies of you treaty partner.  You chose not to.  Sad to see the day when IRON became on of those alliances.


Well IRON told them before this war they were not defending them. If they had a problem with it then NG could have cut the treaty then instead of trying to put the blame on IRON when they didn't get their way. NG for its while existence has always done shit and couldn't handle any repercussions for their actions and even their allies can vouch for that. Im sure it was a bit hurtful when NG found out they weren't going to win this war, but they should have thought about that before provoking Polaris for no reason. Edited by Rotavele
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IRON defenders just, intentionally, forget that IRON knew NG plans and saw their stupid behavior during months and nevertheless kept the treaty, even knowing that NG actions could lead to a war and what they did? Started to sign treaties with the other side while keeping NG treaty. This type of behavior, commonly know as ODN's Modus Operandi, are the proof that IRON was just waiting to see if NG plans would be successful or not to then safely choose who they would support.

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We do have allies in both sides of this war, we also could have choose the easy route and joined the bigger side, but we are STA and we don't abandon friends just because we love our stats, if we sign a treaty with someone, we are committed with that alliance in both good and bad times.

If you are claiming that this situation has anything to do with "loving our stats" you are dumber than I thought.

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Well IRON told them before this war they were not defending them. If they had a problem with it then NG could have cut the treaty then instead of trying to put the blame on IRON when they didn't get their way. NG for its while existence has always done shit and couldn't handle any repercussions for their actions and even their allies can vouch for that. Im sure it was a bit hurtful when NG found out they weren't going to win this war, but they should have thought about that before provoking Polaris for no reason.

 

Why do you even try anymore?

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Well IRON told them before this war they were not defending them. If they had a problem with it they should have cut the treaty then instead of trying to put the blame on IRON when they didn't get their way. NG for its while existence has always done shit and couldn't handle any repercussions for their actions and even their allies can vouch for that. Im sure it was a bit hurtful when NG found out they weren't going to win this war, but they should have thought about that before provoking Polaris for no reason.

 

You can not make excuses for IRON because NG is a jackhole alliance.  IRON knew exactly who NG was when they signed on and kept that treaty knowing what was coming.  That was their choice.  The only question is now they are in this position is it because they are incompetent or just untrustworthy.

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If you are claiming that this situation has anything to do with "loving our stats" you are dumber than I thought.

 
You can not make excuses for IRON because NG is a jackhole alliance.  IRON knew exactly who NG was when they signed on and kept that treaty knowing what was coming.  That was their choice.  The only question is now they are in this position is it because they are incompetent or just untrustworthy.

They're not incompetent by any means, they fight some of the most competent alliances out there and still retain the #1 position. Like I said the majority of their allies are not on NG's side, IRON gave them notice before this war, and IRON is being loyal to it's other allies (that they apparently talk to a lot more, going by these logs). I applaud IRON for this move.

 
Why do you even try anymore?


Because when I try, alliances like NSO get curb stomped. Also haha IRON isn't coming in for you. Nanananabooboo. Edited by Rotavele
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