LoSS Encore

[Da DreadLord]

Most coming from NPO and NATO mate. That much is also easy to see.

Blame the game mechanics that people can only be nuked once.. and blame NPO for nuking my own target lol. You'll need to do better than that you know.

[Commander shepard]

Without any treaty with NPO or ghost DoW from TPF, how do they have a valid entry? So, apparently you have no idea what valid means. Gotcha. 

 

No, you're interpreting valid as meaning a treaty. :psyduck:

[Dochartaigh]

This is your problem. Ghost declarations and convoluted treaty chains are ridiculous. If NADC was itching to fight alongside Mi6 against TPF that badly, why don't MI6 and NADC have a treaty? Sign it half an hour before the declaration for all I care. According to everyone from your pals in TOP to their new pal Schattenmann, treaties are political tools. Wouldn't the opportunity to join forces against a common enemy be the ultimate political tool?

 

As for AE entering in defence of NPO, it's not exactly a secret NPO and TPF generally fight together. For one to lend some resources to the other, especially when the other is getting battered from all sides, makes plenty of sense. Or do you actually not think TPF signed off on this?

 

So we are using current, existing treaties as political tools and you decry it. LoSS/VE signed a treaty just prior to a DoW and the other side decries it. How about, we just keep doing what we are doing since it will be decried no matter what okay? 

 

As for NPO/TPF, that is great. Neither one are AE. And given the shit AE spewed in their DoW about bandwagoning, and that is exactly what AE did. Had TPF at least ghost DoWed for them, it would not be a bandwagon. I don't see the point of signing treaties for the sake of signing treaties. Yes, treaties are, and always have been, political tools. At least use them properly, even if they are used to chain multiple people in. 

 

This is not the first time something like this has been done so the amount of crying over it being done by several people is just plain amusing.

 

Blame the game mechanics that people can only be nuked once.. and blame NPO for nuking my own target lol. You'll need to do better than that you know.

 

So will you mate. So will you. Cuz I could point out how NPO has lost almost 3 million NS, but what would be the point since that damage is spread out against several alliances and neither Sparta nor MI6 can make a claim to the whole amount. 

[NoMercy]

So, they follow treaties to join a war on the other side and you claim they are bailing? Again, your ally NPO burnt and shit on a lot of folks on this side of the war during eQ. Hell for that matter, they pretty much shit all over their own allies during that war. NG shit on a lot of people on this side of the war. NG for that matter tried to build a coalition to fight some alliances on this side. 

 

Bailing no. More like alliances not want to defend two alliances that have done nothing but shit and use them. It is called not allowing puppet strings to be attached mate. Be a good ally, DDL, that is fine. But don't claim people are bailing because they refuse to defend the likes of NPO and NG. Just cuz Steve stepped in and said some things, does not change all the shit NG has done. Actions have consequences and the amount of fucking whining coming from your side is hilarious. 

 

How did TIO enter eQ? Wasn't it on an oA of an MD? Yeah, funny how when TIO chains into a war, it is all good to go. Others, not so much. So can we please shut the fuck up about entries into wars.

 

Doch,

 

I don't think all treaty obligations are equal. For your theory to work, that would have to be the case, though. LoSS chose to go a shady way with over several oA clauses instead of honoring a defense obligation. That however doesn't answer the question if this bailing is justified or not. At this point, we probably agree with each other. With this move LoSS frees itself from being the meat shield people claimed it to be. 

[Da DreadLord]

With this move LoSS frees itself from being the meat shield people claimed it to be. 

Or it's just being a meatshield for other people now. Time will tell that.

[Max Power]

So we are using current, existing treaties as political tools and you decry it. LoSS/VE signed a treaty just prior to a DoW and the other side decries it. How about, we just keep doing what we are doing since it will be decried no matter what okay? 

 

As for NPO/TPF, that is great. Neither one are AE. And given the shit AE spewed in their DoW about bandwagoning, and that is exactly what AE did. Had TPF at least ghost DoWed for them, it would not be a bandwagon. I don't see the point of signing treaties for the sake of signing treaties. Yes, treaties are, and always have been, political tools. At least use them properly, even if they are used to chain multiple people in.

I'm not decrying anything, I'm just saying having four alliances declare so one may enter is nonsensical. Either sign a during-the-war treaty or just say "NADC is defending MI6 because we feel a common cause with them against the evil TPF". The ghost chain thing is an attempt to fabricate a treaty rather than either (a) sign one, or (b) enter even though there isn't one because you feel it's the right thing to do.

[Dochartaigh]

No, you're interpreting valid as meaning a treaty. :psyduck:

 

That has always been the only valid entry into war except the initial DoW that springs the global war in. I mean, if MI6 just upped and hit NG without any sort of treaty used, I can almost guarantee you will be amongst the first decrying that action. Doubt that it would be considered a "valid entry" at that point. 

 

Doch,

 

I don't think all treaty obligations are equal. For your theory to work, that would have to be the case, though. LoSS chose to go a shady way with over several oA clauses instead of honoring a defense obligation. That however doesn't answer the question if this bailing is justified or not. At this point, we probably agree with each other. With this move LoSS frees itself from being the meat shield people claimed it to be. 

 

IIRC, LoSS's M level treaties have non-chaining clauses. Yes, more political machinations but if their allies did not want non-chaining clauses, they should have said something. As for bailing, looking over their treaties, they have not bailed on a single ally. TIO has not been countered, as was even pointed out by DDL. Thus, unless TIO wanted LoSS to oA in on Sparta...As for GATO, GATO joined the war after LoSS hit NG and unless GATO wanted LoSS to fight on both sides, which in my opinion is rather shitty of an alliance to ask and I doubt it was asked, again, no bailing. MCXA is fighting alongside LoSS. 

 

MCXA, not bailing on any allies either. Again, TIO has not been countered and unless TIO wanted MCXA to oA in on Sparta (which I am finding amusing considering TIO's apparently dislike of using the optional portion of a treaty as a means of entry). 

 

NADC not bailing on any allies. 

 

NPL not bailing on any allies. 

 

So, I just don't get what that side is talking about. LoSS or MCXA oAin on Sparta is the same damn thing as them oAin on TPF. 

 

Or it's just being a meatshield for other people now. Time will tell that.

 

You realize given the use of oA, LoSS made the decision on its own to enter right? This was not being dragged in via an M level treaty, it was LoSS standing up and making a choice. They could easily have said no. 

 

I'm not decrying anything, I'm just saying having four alliances declare so one may enter is nonsensical. Either sign a during-the-war treaty or just say "NADC is defending MI6 because we feel a common cause with them against the evil TPF". The ghost chain thing is an attempt to fabricate a treaty rather than either (a) sign one, or (b) enter even though there isn't one because you feel it's the right thing to do.

 

Actually, it was technically 1 alliance declaring so that 3 others could hit. This was not a design to bring in a single alliance 3 chains down. It was designed to bring in a single alliance 1 chain down and 1 alliance a second chain down and a 1 alliance a third chain down. MCXA/LoSS/NADC are all hitting TPF. So unless you are saying that MI6 should have signed 3 separate treaties with MCXA/LoSS/NADC in order to accomplish something that could be done chaining...

[Da DreadLord]

You realize given the use of oA, LoSS made the decision on its own to enter right? This was not being dragged in via an M level treaty, it was LoSS standing up and making a choice. They could easily have said no. 

We all know the oA part is a technicality to move the pawn into position.

[Commander shepard]

That has always been the only valid entry into war except the initial DoW that springs the global war in. I mean, if MI6 just upped and hit NG without any sort of treaty used, I can almost guarantee you will be amongst the first decrying that action. Doubt that it would be considered a "valid entry" at that point. 

 

I think DH done that in a previous global war, I think they hit CRAP, CSN and TTK without any sort of treaty use in Grudge global war after the initial DoW set the global war in motion.

I think that is accurate and I don't remember many people decrying how it was not a valid entry into the war.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Commander shepard

[Moufassa]

Or it's just being a meatshield for other people now. Time will tell that.

 

 

This seems like a less than favorable stance from you, DDL.  Which specific front of the war do you view us to be a meatshield, exactly?

[berbers]

 
I think DH done that in a previous global war, I think they hit CRAP, CSN and TTK without any sort of treaty use in Grudge global war after the initial DoW set the global war in motion.
I think that is accurate and I don't remember many people decrying how it was not a valid entry into the war.

Bad example, they apologized and peaced out when it came apparent chestnut wasn't going to enter the war, thus cementing the fact they felt it was a dick move.

However I believe DT and RoK then declared on CSN out of the blue, which not many people decried.

Edit: I do not condone all this LoSS tomfoolery and am very saddened at quite a few friends in that AA Edited November 12, 2013 by berbers

[Da DreadLord]

This seems like a less than favorable stance from you, DDL.  Which specific front of the war do you view us to be a meatshield, exactly?

Well, go look at who is in peace mode on your side. But as I said, time will tell.

 

And it's no secret that I prefer straight treaty links to enter a war instead of inventing stuff like has happened in this war.. (re: stance)

[RevolutionaryRebel]

I am flattered by the publicity afforded in this unrelated discussion.

 

LoSS is standing up and making a choice of joining a coalition that was already winning, to attack an Alliance that doesn't support the actions of NSO that led to the conflict. What are you standing up for?

[Dochartaigh]

We all know the oA part is a technicality to move the pawn into position.

 

Right cuz again it being optional means that the alliance has absolutely no control... 

 

I think DH done that in a previous global war, I think they hit CRAP, CSN and TTK without any sort of treaty use in Grudge global war after the initial DoW set the global war in motion.

I think that is accurate and I don't remember many people decrying how it was not a valid entry into the war.

 

Fairly certain most decried that action too. Most likely you as well since you were vehemently anti-DH at the time. Glad to see that you are nothing more than a hypocrite though.

[Da DreadLord]

Right cuz again it being optional means that the alliance has absolutely no control... 

Master: hey, i need you to hit X

Puppet: ok.. but how? we have no treaty involved

Master: Just use the oA on the ghost DoW that we'll have Y do on X

Puppet: Yay.

[Moufassa]

I am flattered by the publicity afforded in this unrelated discussion.

 

LoSS is standing up and making a choice of joining a coalition that was already winning, to attack an Alliance that doesn't support the actions of NSO that led to the conflict. What are you standing up for?

 

I believe you are speaking of the second front that LoSS opened up, rather than the initial.  Which I must say has absolutely nothing to do politics of the war, rather lending a hand to our pals in MI6 and fighting alongside our allies in MCXA.

[Dochartaigh]

Master: hey, i need you to hit X

Puppet: ok.. but how? we have no treaty involved

Master: Just use the oA on the ghost DoW that we'll have Y do on X

Puppet: Yay.

 

You realize that most wars manipulate M level treaties more than optional because M level treaties are far easier to manipulate. Unless the alliance holding the M level treaty wants to completely ignore it. 

 

That convo can just as easily go:

 

Supposed Master: hey, i need you to hit X

Supposed Puppet: How, we have no trearty?

Supposed Master: Just use the oA on a ghost DoW that we'll have Y do on X.

Supposed Puppet: Fuck off. We ain't doing that. 

 

But yes DDL, keep going with the conspiracy theories and delusions. Great to hear you talking like this about LoSS considering y'all hold an oDoAP with that, all of which is optional. hahahaha

[Da DreadLord]

You realize that most wars manipulate M level treaties more than optional because M level treaties are far easier to manipulate. Unless the alliance holding the M level treaty wants to completely ignore it. 

 

That convo can just as easily go:

 

Supposed Master: hey, i need you to hit X

Supposed Puppet: How, we have no trearty?

Supposed Master: Just use the oA on a ghost DoW that we'll have Y do on X.

Supposed Puppet: Fuck off. We ain't doing that. 

 

But yes DDL, keep going with the conspiracy theories and delusions. Great to hear you talking like this about LoSS considering y'all hold an oDoAP with that, all of which is optional. hahahaha

Last i checked LoSS and TIO had a MDoAP (it got upgraded sometime)

[Dochartaigh]

Last i checked LoSS and TIO had a MDoAP (it got upgraded sometime)

 

My bad. I blame Rogal for not updating CN Wiki. 

[Commander shepard]

Fairly certain most decried that action too. Most likely you as well since you were vehemently anti-DH at the time. Glad to see that you are nothing more than a hypocrite though.

 

I most definitely was not decrying it and I was very anti-DH.

[Da DreadLord]

My bad. I blame Rogal for not updating CN Wiki. 

Yea, I noticed that too. Was too lazy to update it too XD

[NoMercy]

Or it's just being a meatshield for other people now. Time will tell that.

 

Well, the definition of meat shields is that they don't have a free will. (at least mine). With this move they have proven to have one. For the outside world, it might be justified, I can understand that the relation between them and you is damaged. 

[Dochartaigh]

Yea, I noticed that too. Was too lazy to update it too XD

 

So you basically think even less of LoSS than I previously thought. You think an M level treaty partner is nothing more than a puppet. Very telling mate.

[WarriorSoul]

 
So you basically think even less of LoSS than I previously thought. You think an M level treaty partner is nothing more than a puppet. Very telling mate.

From experience I've learned that you can put a lot in DDL's mouth. Words are not among those things.

[chedab]

im not exactly sure on how LoSS has wronged TIO in this war.

 

as its been previously mentioned we havent been asked to defend TIO. they chose their side. our alliance chose the other. that until now was the only difference in my eyes.

 

DDL you just seem to be making a constant effort to burn bridges. i wish the old TIO government was back.

 

if im wrong on what im saying correct me, but im still unsure on how we have pissed you off.