Using sanctions as tools of war?

[Rayvon]

LOL... your sig has nothing to do with sanctioning... it was just a friendly post-scriptum. I simply saw the sig and it made me laugh. That's all.

Yeah, except this isn't the first thread you've derailed by referencing it in an attempt to sway the topic away from your shit posts.

The senate is under-developed, but instead of making use of it so there's something to build on - you want to see it entirely removed (and put in place a new feature around senates). Try using what's there, try a little imagination. You want someone to vote on "laws" for this game? Start a U.N.

[LegendoftheSkies]

Vote Methax for Black Senate!

[Big Z]

Capital, Z!

 

Well, you better get back to work. Picking up your old position as shadow ruler will take some effort!

[zoskia]

Yeah, except this isn't the first thread you've derailed by referencing it in an attempt to sway the topic away from your shit posts.

The senate is under-developed, but instead of making use of it so there's something to build on - you want to see it entirely removed (and put in place a new feature around senates). Try using what's there, try a little imagination. You want someone to vote on "laws" for this game? Start a U.N.

 

As far as I remember, the only other thread in which I mentioned your sig was in the Polar declaration of war... where I said that I didn't understand why Dajobo felt the need to post "secret logs" considering that you wear that sig in public... Anyway, it doesn't matter.

 

Yeah, I believe the senate is very under-developed.

 I'd love to see the Senate voting for "laws":

-i.e, I'd love to see them voting for the cost of the nukes... each senator could have a price range that goes from 1M to 15M for the first nuke... so the Senate could vote if the nukes for each month are going to be cheap or expensive.

-Same thing could happen with Infra and Tech.... the Senate could be able to vote that the cost of Tech is reduced by 20% for a month, but the cost of infra is rised by 20% for the same month

 

So, yeah... I'd love to see game features that let the Senate vote for "laws" that change the in-game mechanics.

As for Sanctioning.... it is really one of those things that CAN push people out of this game... we don't need that stuff.

Again... I think Admin designed the game thinking that the "big deal" was going to be the Teams/Colors... and not really the Alliances/blocks... but the community itself decided to play the game in a different way. I truly believe that Sanctioning is a relic of the past... a relic of a past in which CN was planned as a game in which the colors were the "big issue", but they aren't.

[Tick1]

Vote Methax for Black Senate!

 

You forgot the closed captioning, but I support this message.

[the rebel]

It is considered a dick move because it never became a common practice, in my opinion. I wouldn't support the use of sanctions on my alliance's behalf, but I definitely see it's usefulness under certain circumstances and against certain targets.

I see certain spheres as hardly affected by sanction warfare (Orange, Aqua, Blue, Green, Brown) but others could definitely experience it (Black and Maroon come to mind, but White and Pink as well).

 

Aye true, though if it did become common practice all that would happen is all those alliances would start adopting secret trade circles or moving on mass to the grey team to combat the possibility and then as time goes on senate would only be able to stop aid making them more defunct than they already are.

Edited November 11, 2013 by the rebel

[Unknown Smurf]

Aye true, though if it did become common practice all that would happen is all those alliances would start adopting secret trade circles or moving on mass to the grey team to combat the possibility and then as time goes on senate would only be able to stop aid making them more defunct than they already are.

 

I doubt that; people would probably just switch into rings with active friends so they could switch to another color once sanctioned.

 

I doubt they would pre-emptively move to another sphere (especially grey) to counter that. 

[the rebel]

Depends on how much people value 5 happiness points, but this topic is progressing into more hypothetical ground than reality.

[Dajobo]

This has been one of the more interesting debates here.

 

OOC. I actually agree with a great deal of what Rayvon has said on using the senate. If it was used as a war tool it does create great relevance to the position of senator and gives colour spheres some significance.

IC. I'd only do it if it was the accepted norm as I think most of my allies and members would disagree with my opinion on this.

 

As this is an OOC board though, I urge people to take of the political IC glasses for a minute and read the various points for and against as both have good ones.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Dajobo

[Starcraftmazter]

This has been one of the more interesting debates here.

 

OOC. I actually agree with a great deal of what Rayvon has said on using the senate. If it was used as a war tool it does create great relevance to the position of senator and gives colour spheres some significance.

IC. I'd only do it if it was the accepted norm as I think most of my allies and members would disagree with my opinion on this.

 

As this is an OOC board though, I urge people to take of the political IC glasses for a minute and read the various points for and against as both have good ones.

 

Or maybe we can revamp senators entirely? They never served a good reason and sanction wars are just bloody stupid.

[Azaghul]

As far as I remember, the only other thread in which I mentioned your sig was in the Polar declaration of war... where I said that I didn't understand why Dajobo felt the need to post "secret logs" considering that you wear that sig in public... Anyway, it doesn't matter.

 

Yeah, I believe the senate is very under-developed.

 I'd love to see the Senate voting for "laws":

-i.e, I'd love to see them voting for the cost of the nukes... each senator could have a price range that goes from 1M to 15M for the first nuke... so the Senate could vote if the nukes for each month are going to be cheap or expensive.

-Same thing could happen with Infra and Tech.... the Senate could be able to vote that the cost of Tech is reduced by 20% for a month, but the cost of infra is rised by 20% for the same month

 

So, yeah... I'd love to see game features that let the Senate vote for "laws" that change the in-game mechanics.

As for Sanctioning.... it is really one of those things that CAN push people out of this game... we don't need that stuff.

Again... I think Admin designed the game thinking that the "big deal" was going to be the Teams/Colors... and not really the Alliances/blocks... but the community itself decided to play the game in a different way. I truly believe that Sanctioning is a relic of the past... a relic of a past in which CN was planned as a game in which the colors were the "big issue", but they aren't.

Something like this would be great.  I've thought for a long time that a great feature for the Senate would be each Senator having the power to grant modest but relevant benefits to a limited number of nations.  Give alliances voting for Senators a reason to want their Senator and/or negotiate with other alliances over how to use the Senator's powers.

 

I didn't say anything about YOU or about POLAR or about ANY DIRECT ALLIANCE in any of my response. I said "it's boring restructuring trades" is a poor argument towards a lack of use of the feature. Congrats on holding a senate seat .. forever.

PS. what the fuck does my signature and your comment about it have to do with sanctioning?

I think the issue with sanction is not JUST that it's boring restructuring trades, it's that that's the ONLY thing it would really do to most active people.  There isn't any irreversible damage like with nukes.  The net result wouldn't be any significant statical changes for anyone, only people having to go through the tedious process of getting secret trades during war, getting temps, or moving circles to different colors if sanctioned.

[Unknown Smurf]

Azaghul brings up my point of view in better words than I. 

 

I agree with Rayvons premise that it's a tool out there that will make for more interesting dynamics/wars, but at the same time it's just a hassle, not a major issue. When we were sanctioned last war, it took maybe 5 hours to rearrange the trade ring? Probably wasted 20 minutes of my life on it, but it didn't make a difference in the war.

 

Maybe if someone is sanctioned they can't trade for "x" days? Like 10? 

[WarriorConcept]

Surprised it took d34th as the last post on page 1 to bring us up :P

 

It's a feature in the game, it's a "political feature" .. In the real world, sanctions are used to slow down war efforts by those "strong enough to enforce them" (not to be directly interpreted as a 'might makes right' statement - but as a recognition of the requirements to be able to achieve/hold/maintain/utilize said feature) - it's just been translated into the game. Unfortunately with restrictions to how many a senator can sanction though.

 

It gives a good reason to work out that battle for a senate seat, and brings back its importance and weight as a tool in relationships and political strength of an alliance.

 

I agree with a lot of this and his other arguments regarding this topic.

 

Yes I felt dirty saying that.

[HeroofTime55]

You should do the same.  He was ghosting off AA and is a long time Umbrella member.

My assumption is that once he left Umbrella to go rogue on people, that he ceased to be a member of Umbrella at that moment.  I will assume that is the case unless and until Umbrella claims otherwise.

Regardless, if this thread was genuinely to seek "clarification from Umbrella," an alliance leader certainly knows well enough to inquire in private channels.  By making it into a public stunt, it very obviously is nothing more than an attempt to score cheap political points.

Edited November 11, 2013 by HeroofTime55

[Derwood1]

My assumption is that once he left Umbrella to go rogue on people, that he ceased to be a member of Umbrella at that moment.  I will assume that is the case unless and until Umbrella claims otherwise.

Regardless, if this thread was genuinely to seek "clarification from Umbrella," an alliance leader certainly knows well enough to inquire in private channels.  By making it into a public stunt, it very obviously is nothing more than an attempt to score cheap political points.

Except there is a thread on Umbrella Forums to vote for Methax, make no mistake this is sanctioned by Umbrella gov....

[HeroofTime55]

Except there is a thread on Umbrella Forums to vote for Methax, make no mistake this is sanctioned by Umbrella gov....

Because nobody ever gets lazy and leaves an old and outdated "vote for x for team senate" thread on their boards.  Shit, RIA has some from like 3 years ago, still stickied.  I think we can assume that a week since he went rogue is not a significant amount of time, and neither was the situation pressing until he started sanctioning.

Damnit, dude, you are making me defend Umbrella.  Seriously.

[Derwood1]

Because nobody ever gets lazy and leaves an old and outdated "vote for x for team senate" thread on their boards.  Shit, RIA has some from like 3 years ago, still stickied.  I think we can assume that a week since he went rogue is not a significant amount of time, and neither was the situation pressing until he started sanctioning.

Damnit, dude, you are making me defend Umbrella.  Seriously.

You are assuming it is old.....my intel says it is fresh.....\

 

edit:

oh yeah can't we all kick unwanted members from the AA now?

Edited November 11, 2013 by Derwood1

[Rayvon]

I agree with a lot of this and his other arguments regarding this topic.
 
Yes I felt dirty saying that.

It's never good unless it's dirty ;)

[Groucho Marx]

This is old hat at this point, 
Doomhouse tried this very thing when they invaded Maroon,

Doom House never invaded Maroon.

[HeroofTime55]

You are assuming it is old.....my intel says it is fresh.....\

 

edit:

oh yeah can't we all kick unwanted members from the AA now?

One, I doubt that, but if it is, and your goal was to score cheap PR points, then why the hell didn't you just post a screencap of it, and two, yes we can, and also you have to be officially accepted back into an alliance if you don't want to be listed as "pending," which this guy was listed as, and he was sitting on the AA for less than 24 hours, so you can't really say that Umbrella had a fair opportunity to kick him off the AA.

[Marelea]

I'm actually going to disagree with my fellow Polar's here, Trade sanctions would be a highly effective means of not only adding another dimension to war, but also providing an opportunity to shake things up a bit. If you don't like the idea of sanctions being used, get the votes to get him out of the senate. As it used to be, as it should be, and God willing how it will be.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Marelea

[Tick1]

Except there is a thread on Umbrella Forums to vote for Methax, make no mistake this is sanctioned by Umbrella gov....

 

You could have easily just said it's currently posted in our IRC channel publicly.

 

"The Clan will use all weapons they possess when in a state of war."

 

This was a logical section in PC's charter, you should refer back to your previous alliance for some guidance because you are lost my friend. I liked you during the Grudge War Derwood and I sincerely believed you guys were better than this.

[Daikos]

Moralism does not suite you guys. 

[FlogYou]

 
And before that he was in TOP (Strike 1) and DBDC and pretty much still is de-facto member of DBDC.
Bones is getting 36 votes in the senate, if I had to guess TOP accounts for a high enough percentage of that vote (Strike 2).
It is misguided to blame Kaskus for it (Strike 3) because it probably would have happened anyway.

 

Swing and a miss, strike 3.

 

Care to step up to the plate again, slugger?

[Commander shepard]

 

You're wrong...