Rebuilding, Reworking, and Fixing CNRP

[High Emperor Aggron]

So I've heard from multiple people of how I came into cnrp in its low point. I've heard of times when there was more global response and getting away with things like unprovoked aggression didnt fly. Ive heard of times when there were numbers greater  of people in cnrp, and this is its low point. I want to campaign to fix it. I know the challenge thatd be ahead of me and the distaste for change amongst you all but hear me out when  i say. What will the map be like if its just you on it?  Will cnrp exist yet? I want to suggest a few things, feel free to build upon them, list more issues or criticise constructively. If you are opposed do not bashthe ideas of others please. Here are some ideas;

 

Reset cnrp, a blank slate a blank map. No more over expansion but rather we play out of a single country. This opens swathes of land for new people and makes it easier for noobs.

 

An infra scale in replacement of our tech scale. Its retarded and implausible to speculate what technology we'll have 20, 30 years in the future. A scake that goes loosely like this would much better fit and quickly balance the fields. 

1.00-1599.99 Third world country 

1600.00-4999.99 Industrializing country (1920-99 low to high spectrum)

5000.00+ First world country 

 

My last suggestion is a UN council, not built out of a coalition of likeminded nations but one that has checks and balances. One that would rule and act out of fairness and not for gain. 

 

ooc in the works. Please comment and suggest

 

[Kevin Kingswell]

This would get more respect and promise from me if it wasn't for the fact that you have brought it up only after Triyun has made an attack against your nation.

[High Emperor Aggron]

This would get more respect and promise from me if it wasn't for the fact that you have brought it up only after Triyun has made an attack against your nation.

Thats understandable, and I recognise your issue with my timing. But this isnt for me, this is moreso for the continuance of cnrp. It's ddying because of what we're doing. We need to do something and I'm making the first step.

 

edit: also this wouldnt save me.

Edited October 31, 2013 by High Emperor Aggron

[Kevin Kingswell]

CNRP isn't dying. As long as some people continue to post then it lives. It's just some people have left for various reasons and of course with the strength of Triyun, Cent and others smaller nations are complaining and maybe quitting. If people want to do something then they need to work it out IC. There are ways. 

[High Emperor Aggron]

CNRP isn't dying. As long as some people continue to post then it lives. It's just some people have left for various reasons and of course with the strength of Triyun, Cent and others smaller nations are complaining and maybe quitting. If people want to do something then they need to work it out IC. There are ways. 

Thats ignorant of you not to see it. Again this isnt for my nation but for all the others, for people that may join in the future and for people who quit before. Youre reading my rant session when its not that. This is to fix a broken system and improve it. This is to build a UN and stop unfairness. Its to give every man a foot in the door. 

[Evangeline Anovilis]

First, what would 0 tech be? Hunters and gatherers?

 

Second, many what is with that 1920-1999 bracket and what if I'm a third world country? Does this mean as third world country I'm actually worse and get to RP Great War style? This balances how? And in what way is ths any more helpful than just abolishing future tech and moving the whole system as it is currently back by 20 years?

 

I feel it's unreasonable to say "No more over expansion but rather we play out of a single country". Would this limit players to RL countries in current borders? What if those borders are completely stupid? Or unclear? Whom's land is Kashmir? or the Senkaku islands? And any decent legitimation why I'm not allowed to whack my neighbour for owing terra irredenta?

 

I don't favour attacking people without reason, but I think if someone gives me a rather good reason to take action, why should one not be allowed to?

 

I'm not going to say change is bad, but it has to be something that's actually worthwhile and thought out.

 

Also, while I approve of the RL UN, I don't think anyone partakes in it for no gain. There is a gain in participating in the UN, and they made sure of it when they established the UN. Nations that aren't led by dimwits normally don't act out of altruistic tendencies, but because there is something they perceive as an advantage for their own state. Also, the UN is not giving "every man a foot in the door". It's a body to somewhat regulate the world. If you think you want a more regulated world, you may support triyun and Cent with their current UN. Just don't complain if they say you broke the NPT...

 

Kevin, the RP could be livelier. It is not "dead", but it could be more active.

[Centurius]

No, all of this has been proposed before, it has all been rejected and even if accepted it wouldn't do anything good.

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

The main issue isn't the current group of people here, it's bringing in new people.  Now, I will admit that we need to be nicer to noobs, many of whom have been chased off quite quickly.  The map may be misleading with everything being labeled, however.  It used to be that all protectorates were white space and we pretty much accepted the fact that they were still hands off to everyone except new people.  I think we should go back to that.

[Triyun]

If the IRL UN was fair it would've included Germany and Japan.  The IRL UN instead included only the victor powers.  The Soviets (and much later the Chinese) became a spoiler but that's an ahistorical reading of UN history.  In the beginning the vast majority of nations were in the Western bloc.  The Soviets and their eastern European satellites lost every vote, only getting to veto on occasion.  

 

Also seriously the over expansion thing is stupid when there is a lot of white space.  Its not about volume, its about controlling key geographic points and 5 people are all going to want Berlin whether someone owns 1/10th or all of South America.

[Evangeline Anovilis]

Also seriously the over expansion thing is stupid when there is a lot of white space.  Its not about volume, its about controlling key geographic points and 5 people are all going to want Berlin whether someone owns 1/10th or all of South America.

Tbh, I want Wien. But my problem is less that it is taken or that anyone else has it, but that I don't want to neighbour Cent.

 

And actually, I'm very happy right now, having parts of Japan where I know some weeaboos would kill for. And even if it's mostly rural Japan, what's wrong with owning lavender and sunflower fields? It's colourful, it smells nice, it's the scenery where awesome stories could be set.

 

 

Now, I guess I should acknowledge not everyone is as blessed (though I own neither Tokyo, nor Kyoto, not even Osaka or Nagoya...), but I think one can be happy also in other parts of the world. I know Faraway was awesome, altough I started with a complete disinterest in North America. And I think my neighbours MGL and Tanis helped a great deal to make it a fun time there.

 

So, I think the map isn't the issue. It's just something brought up whenever we got a problem and we want to seem radical. In the end, we stick with it anyway, because honestly, what would, for example, keep Triyun from just regaining his China? The sole thing I could think off, would be that a clean slate leads to him going to Britain and instead of the modern Yuan dynasty you will get a new Victorian age where Britannia will not only rule the waves...

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

When I started out back in 2008 I wanted Minnesota, but it was taken so I went to India. India, the only country in the world where there is such as thing as super diarrhea. In all actuality, I only went there because I didn't know we could take protectorates, and that was still in the days when there was such as thing as pure white space. Getting away from RPing where you live is good because if forces you to be creative and actually learn about the local culture. For instance, did you know that Pakistan is simply an awful place to live? I learned that in my year RPing Pakistan. The map isn't an issue in the way that lots of people have freaking massive countries that take up all the land, but the fact that everything is labeled. If you don't want to take protectorates off the map, then we really need to clearly mark their purpose. Instead of making people see the full map and hoping they scroll halfway down the map thread to learn the true purpose of protectorates, we can go and in size 72 rainbow font just write

PROTECTORATES ARE OPEN FOR NEW PLAYERS

Edited October 31, 2013 by KaiserMelech Mikhail

[Evangeline Anovilis]

When I started out back in 2008 I wanted Minnesota, but it was taken so I went to India. India, the only country in the world where there is such as thing as super diarrhea. In all actuality, I only went there because I didn't know we could take protectorates, and that was still in the days when there was such as thing as pure white space. Getting away from RPing where you live is good because if forces you to be creative and actually learn about the local culture. For instance, did you know that Pakistan is simply an awful place to live? I learned that in my year RPing Pakistan. The map isn't an issue in the way that lots of people have freaking massive countries that take up all the land, but the fact that everything is labeled. If you don't want to take protectorates off the map, then we really need to clearly mark their purpose. Instead of making people see the full map and hoping they scroll halfway down the map thread to learn the true purpose of protectorates, we can go and in size 72 rainbow font just write

PROTECTORATES ARE OPEN FOR NEW PLAYERS

I think there's no better example of someone who's just happy RPing the place they have without complaint... I mean, who else would want a crappy piece of Russia along the amur river, where mostly Jews live and which almost noone even knew before they heard of Melech RPing there. Yet, he makes it an even crappier place and is proud of it. And while I haven't read any of those other long factbooks (like Tianxia, Athens, Germany), I did read this one, because this person could actually be quite great...

 

Though I still won't forgive Yoitsu...

[Aggressivenutmeg]

Oh look it's the tread that is made every couple of months.

 

The map isn't an issue in the way that lots of people have freaking massive countries that take up all the land, but the fact that everything is labeled. If you don't want to take protectorates off the map, then we really need to clearly mark their purpose. Instead of making people see the full map and hoping they scroll halfway down the map thread to learn the true purpose of protectorates, we can go and in size 72 rainbow font just write

PROTECTORATES ARE OPEN FOR NEW PLAYERS

 

This is actually a good idea.

[PresidentDavid]

Tbh, I want Wien. But my problem is less that it is taken or that anyone else has it, but that I don't want to neighbour Cent.

 

And actually, I'm very happy right now, having parts of Japan where I know some weeaboos would kill for. And even if it's mostly rural Japan, what's wrong with owning lavender and sunflower fields? It's colourful, it smells nice, it's the scenery where awesome stories could be set.

 

 

Now, I guess I should acknowledge not everyone is as blessed (though I own neither Tokyo, nor Kyoto, not even Osaka or Nagoya...), but I think one can be happy also in other parts of the world. I know Faraway was awesome, altough I started with a complete disinterest in North America. And I think my neighbours MGL and Tanis helped a great deal to make it a fun time there.

 

So, I think the map isn't the issue. It's just something brought up whenever we got a problem and we want to seem radical. In the end, we stick with it anyway, because honestly, what would, for example, keep Triyun from just regaining his China? The sole thing I could think off, would be that a clean slate leads to him going to Britain and instead of the modern Yuan dynasty you will get a new Victorian age where Britannia will not only rule the waves...

 

That is simple - the rule would be that your nation cannot consist of land from your lat nation and you cannot RP land from your last nation for, say, 3 months. That way, everyone is forced to move and cannot just go and take the same land. I am, and have always been, for this idea because I think it would make CNRP more interesting then it has been since I got here. Stability is what makes things boring - whether you like to admit it or not - and there is no chance of a global conflict because there are no global threats to the powers at be which are all allies or at least friendly with one another. 

 

Sadly I do not think I can offer another alternative, other than the above which I know does not have major support, to make CNRP better or bring back a lot of the spirit; however, something needs to be done. The first step of fixing a problem is recognizing that one exists - and I recognize that CNRP is much less lively, controversial and creative then it use to be. However that does not mean we can make it like it was before (regarding liveliness and enjoyability) but it would either take significant change to make things different, or simply resetting the game so we can start from scratch.

 

Also don't blame Triyun for CNRP being dead. I think he and Cent contribute to CNRP being stable which thus makes it more boring, however that isn't their fault. It's just that there is no one that can, or is willing to, challenge them. 

 

But yeah... There is a problem. I hope we can at least acknowledge that. 

Edited October 31, 2013 by PresidentDavid

[Evangeline Anovilis]

First, what would, for example, keep Triyun from just regaining his China, after three months? And permanently banning seems like a really horrid idea, which I outright decline. I don't feel well if I know I got this one attempt to RP a nation, I will never be able to return once I leave and it's actually quite stressing if you can't even mess up, because it may mean loosing your once-in-a-lifetime chance.

 

Second, I don't think stability makes the RP boring. It's more how people go about it that creates issues.

[PresidentDavid]

First, what would, for example, keep Triyun from just regaining his China, after three months? And permanently banning seems like a really horrid idea, which I outright decline. I don't feel well if I know I got this one attempt to RP a nation, I will never be able to return once I leave and it's actually quite stressing if you can't even mess up, because it may mean loosing your once-in-a-lifetime chance.

 

Second, I don't think stability makes the RP boring. It's more how people go about it that creates issues.

 

If you can somehow get back that land after three months then take it. But I can guarantee that this would not be the case for most people. 

 

Also I never advocated a permanent ban. That would be annoying. 

[High Emperor Aggron]

That is simple - the rule would be that your nation cannot consist of land from your lat nation and you cannot RP land from your last nation for, say, 3 months. That way, everyone is forced to move and cannot just go and take the same land. I am, and have always been, for this idea because I think it would make CNRP more interesting then it has been since I got here. Stability is what makes things boring - whether you like to admit it or not - and there is no chance of a global conflict because there are no global threats to the powers at be which are all allies or at least friendly with one another. 

 

Sadly I do not think I can offer another alternative, other than the above which I know does not have major support, to make CNRP better or bring back a lot of the spirit; however, something needs to be done. The first step of fixing a problem is recognizing that one exists - and I recognize that CNRP is much less lively, controversial and creative then it use to be. However that does not mean we can make it like it was before (regarding liveliness and enjoyability) but it would either take significant change to make things different, or simply resetting the game so we can start from scratch.

 

Also don't blame Triyun for CNRP being dead. I think he and Cent contribute to CNRP being stable which thus makes it more boring, however that isn't their fault. It's just that there is no one that can, or is willing to, challenge them. 

 

But yeah... There is a problem. I hope we can at least acknowledge that. 

 

 

I wasn't blaming triyun, I was saying to whoever read it to think if it was just them on the map. It's the fact that its almost a ghost town at times there isn't much going on because people have no needs to do other than the mandatory 25 days?) But if we acknowledge the problem as a community, we can address it. I know we all see it, but we acknowledge it then we address it. Would it not be better to see a lively cnrp that is bustling with new people and the veterans alike? I feel some may be content with their status now, but I feel moreso that people would be more aggreable to the outcome of changing things. We can work on faults and issues as a community, we can piece together things and make this better. I believe that and I just hope someone else sees my crazy and agrees with it.

[Justinian the Mighty]

The problem is that nobody interacts anymore...I think that's probably because people create giant gangbang coalitions to newbs every week. People approach cnrp and think if they go to war they will either win everything or lose everything and that should change. Maybe sometimes our wars can end with the status quo being restored?

[High Emperor Aggron]

The problem is that nobody interacts anymore...I think that's probably because people create giant gangbang coalitions to newbs every week. People approach cnrp and think if they go to war they will either win everything or lose everything and that should change. Maybe sometimes our wars can end with the status quo being restored?

What status quo?

[Yawoo]

I  see nothing new or reasonable in these suggestions, it's the same old ridiculous stuff that pops up every other month. Wiping the map does not enhance activity, what it does, however is steal land OOCly from those that put the time and effort into acquiring it ICly. If you don't own the land you want, then do something ICly to change that fact.  I'm not sure relabeling protectorates truly makes a difference, because the information about them can easily be found if you take the time to read the map thread. That being said, I'm not opposed to it if everyone else feels new RPers need their hands held. Also, people really need to learn the proper usage of first, second and third world labels.

[Vidarr the Terrible]

Wow, a tiered system. I've never seen that before. It would probably work and not be bastardized by other people. Nope.

 

Seriously threads like this are stupid.

[Triyun]

CN RP is going o be good when people play o their best of their abilities but are content with playing the long game and not acting like North Korea.  It took me a long time to get where I was, and plans that I had to adapt and change.  People also need to not be jerks.  Honestly people say the top tier is jerks but its really the reverse.  It tends to be noobs or weak players come in, poke the top guys in the eye a lot then run and try and cry for sympathy when they give the top tier zero reason to negotiate with them.  If I have more guns and can get what I want through military force why should I negotiate?  Because it will generate more activity?  The problem there is if I show up in a thread, half the noobs start freaking out, so I really don't even have an activity incentive.  

 

Beyond that people really need to start taking advise they are given.  Instead of acting rude when I tell you something is a mistake, take it at face value.  I can't tell you how many time I see people say fuck off to a more skilled (and yeah I'll use the term), thinking I suppose its a trap, when they're actually getting some good advice.  

 

As far as what Eva says she's right.  Its not China's status that makes me strong its me the player.  China actually has pretty shitty geography in global terms.  If I rerolled as America or Britain I'd be even harder to assail.  

 

Now to Justinians point wars resulting in the status quo I agree but they need to happen one of two ways, one a actual military tie (I'm going out on a limb and calling that unlikely based on recent wars) or two the defensive party actually acts gracious to the victor.  If I kick your ass its not my job to then be the one who humbly comes to the negotiation table and begs forgiveness, its the reverse.  But I can tell you far far too many people think that its the job of the stronger power to then cede victory away at the negotiating table while the weaker one acts like a spoiled child.  That's just dumb.  

 

Also if anyone needs any pointers on how to war and such they can always ask, just don't expect others to let you win or give you their top weaknesses.   Also really really big thing I see way to often, don't take tech/diplomatic/strategic/tactical advice from people who always lose... cause well there is a reason they lose.

[Captain Enema]

The problem is that nobody interacts anymore..

 

THIS RIGHT HERE, THREAD IS OVER.

 

The old days of plotting, counter-plotting, and counter-counter-plotting were damn fun. Now it's just lame.

[Horo the Wise Wolf]

There would never be enough people to take these "open swathes of land" were people just to restart - it's not like doing that is suddenly going to garner massive attention and desire to RP. There are a lot of protectorate areas, and the owners are usually quite happy to give them out when someone wants to make a nation (Triyun gave me Australia, and I went inactive and it fell into someone else's hands. I still feel bad.).

One of the reasons that I never really stuck around long was because:
1) I felt severely outclassed when I saw being RPing out combat, and I am not the kind of person to happily RP losses (or decently RP counters);
2) Diplomacy felt weak, in that there wasn't really a point, and randomly asking people for meetings/starting correspondences is not something I felt appealing;
3) I never really managed to put the aspects of my nation I tried to improve into a quantitative aspect that would actually stand for something.

Now, I say all this, yet these are my personal problems. Frankly, I think the way CNRP is right now is top notch and not something worth changing - I don't know how people act in regards to diplomatic intrigue/realpolitik and their own internal affairs (God you all write a lot), but stuff happens and it seems good!

My two pence.

[Captain Enema]

It's not really top notch, for the most part it's terrible RP.  It has stagnated, grown highly predictable, characters are boring/bland/caricatures and people act out on OOC impulses on a regular basis.

 

Too much emphasis on technology and not nearly enough emphasis on writer satisfaction.

 

That being said, I'm finding a great deal of amusement in the novelty of this UN scam that Triyun is running. I for one see it as a blatantly obvious attempt at shens, I support shens, we need more of them.

 

Let's face it, shens are fun.

 

And that's what rp is supposed to be, fun.