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Not going to lie, i know jack about DBDC. My first reaction was, joke announcement... 

 

Then someone told me that they really are an alliance. :(

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I looked at the top nation of DBDC, then looked at his wars, then looked at the chart of the 6 nations he was fighting....

 

You have my respect! o7

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I find the double standard here to be laughable.
 

"We attacked TDO for shits and giggles with MQ, but are now frustrated because we're being attacked the same way that MQ is getting attacked."

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Just wait until we release our secret weapon.....

 

 

 

 

 

bunny.jpg

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Just wait until we release our secret weapon.....

 

 

 

 

 

bunny.jpg

MQ secret weapons looks better:

Dolphin+armed.jpg

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DBDC is by definition a raiding alliance and formal declarations of war are not required before a DBDC nation may declare offensive wars.  The result of those wars may be interpreted in any way;

When you "raid" legitimate alliances without a DoW, and declare that you will never be peaceful, those wars rightfully get you interpreted as a threat to the international community that needs to be put down. The question of being "rogue" is immaterial. The bottom line is that if DBDC doesn't respect the sovereignity of others, you're bound to receive mutual treatment.

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I find the double standard here to be laughable.
 

"We attacked TDO for shits and giggles with MQ, but are now frustrated because we're being attacked the same way that MQ is getting attacked."

Such behavior is part for the course with these folks.  Why expect anything other than the usual?

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Since this is apparently necessary:

 

The Greens:

 

The DOOMBIRD DOOMCAVE (DBDC) was officially launched on Jan 19 2013.  Its current leadership is CubaQuerida, Tayloj, and TBRaiders.

 

DBDC has neither disbanded nor ceased to exist in any time since then.  We are a legitimate alliance with communication channels, leadership, a foreign policy, and treaties/protectorates

 

 

What protectorates and treaties does DBDC have? 

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DBDC doesn't support the Jihad that MQ declared, but if any nation comes to DBDC and wants freedom, we should be able to provide it.  We are also of the strongest belief that just because someone makes a decision in a back channel to declare someone a "rogue", that's doesn't automatically let every AA you want tee off on them.  There is no master list of rogues that we know of, and other than the AA's currently at war, everyone could potentially be considered a rogue.  It's a double-edged sword.

 

DBDC just happens to be really good with a blade.

 

There are bigger things afoot and you've dulled your blade a bit in defense of useless Mushqaeda. Well hope to see you guys exit the war soon. You do not owe MQ anything.

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Congratulations on the DoE, and best of luck in the future.

A piece of information: messaging our nations to ask them to peace out their wars is not going to work, nor messaging our top tier promising doom and gloom. Do what you gotta do, as we will.

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Not going to lie, i know jack about DBDC. My first reaction was, joke announcement... 

 

Then someone told me that they really are an alliance. :(

 

Don't believe everything someone tells you.

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I can get behind this alliance. All of you pretenders claiming to not be part of a "rigid structure"... this is how not being part of a rigid structure works.

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I'm sorry, you seem to have accepted raid targets that nuked back. As per standard GOONS policy, now adopted by most alliances, any raid target that nukes back is an EoE (E=Everyone currently raiding Mq/ex-Mq)

Until such a time as we receive ridiculous reps or they post a humiliating entry on our mercy boards (under construction) they are not available to be accepted by your fine alliance.

I am sure you see the logic in this as many of your nations have helped enforce this policy for years and should have no problem allowing us to continue our wars until our above policy requirements have been met.

Thank you for your time, and might I just add a few minutes of work checking your applicants war page could save you a lot of grief.

Respectfully,

Sardon- I mean Berbers

 

 

You have no understanding of our policy or humor in general. 

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You guys have all the fun

 

Sup Cuba

Hello sir.  Fun with words is almost as exciting as war with friends

 

Congratulations on the DoE, and best of luck in the future.

A piece of information: messaging our nations to ask them to peace out their wars is not going to work, nor messaging our top tier promising doom and gloom. Do what you gotta do, as we will.

Pretty brave stuff for an alliance that had to put its entire top tier in peace mode just to have the balls to attack our 14th ranked member.  RnR really representing itself well here.

 

What protectorates and treaties does DBDC have? 

These will be posted shortly.

 

When you "raid" legitimate alliances without a DoW, and declare that you will never be peaceful, those wars rightfully get you interpreted as a threat to the international community that needs to be put down. The question of being "rogue" is immaterial. The bottom line is that if DBDC doesn't respect the sovereignity of others, you're bound to receive mutual treatment.

Cult of justitia guy is right --- oh wait, what?  DBDC respects the sovereignty of other AA's just as much as anyone else.  That's why we prefer to go through diplomatic channels whenever possible.  We just have significantly less patience than other more bureaucratic alliances.  Also, we happen to be structured so that if you choose to continue your path of ignorance and mockery, you have to do what RnR and TTE have done and recuse your upper tiers from the discussion.  We're no more a threat to the international community than any other alliance, especially considering we're not backstabbing anyone, nor strategically withdrawing/distancing, or actively plotting a global war.

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Calling yourself "not a rogue" does not make you not a rogue. More about your action and Doombird's actions are one of rogues.

 

 

Also in before someone says how dumb I am and such. I know my wife tells me all the time. jk but not really.  

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DBDC respects the sovereignty of other AA's just as much as anyone else. [...]Also, we happen to be structured so that if you choose to continue your path of ignorance and mockery, you have to do what RnR and TTE have done and recuse your upper tiers from the discussion.  

I can't tell if this is supposed to be ironic or not. Good luck reconciling might makes right with...whatever it is you're hoping to get out of the OP.

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Not going to lie, i know jack about DBDC. My first reaction was, joke announcement... 

 

Then someone told me that they really are an alliance. :(

eh, you're first Impression was correct.

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We do have a pretty good punch line :3

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DOOMBIRD DOOMCAVE is, like anyone else, welcome to conduct itself in any way it chooses. 

 

DBDC is not, however, welcome to demand that it be able to play by one set of rules to its benefit and everyone else play by another to our detriment.

 

Since this is apparently necessary:

 

The Greens:

 

The DOOMBIRD DOOMCAVE (DBDC) was officially launched on Jan 19 2013.  Its current leadership is CubaQuerida, Tayloj, and TBRaiders.

 

DBDC has neither disbanded nor ceased to exist in any time since then.  We are a legitimate alliance with communication channels, leadership, a foreign policy, and treaties/protectorates.  DBDC is by definition a raiding alliance and formal declarations of war are not required before a DBDC nation may declare offensive wars.  The result of those wars may be interpreted in any way; however, DBDC will retain its sovereignty regardless of the responses of other alliances to such a declaration.  DBDC reserves the right to revoke membership if a nation acts in a way that is not in accordance with DBDC's general ideals.

 

I don't think that most governments/people will quibble with DBDC's definition of itself as an alliance.  But there is your issue: "Alliance" has a definition and its own contextual truck.  And so when you define yourself using a word that already has its own definition and expectations, then you accept them.

Alliances do not attack other alliances without declarations of war.  Sometimes alliances attack before the DoW posted, sometimes they rely on a corporate DoW with other alliances, but a DoW or recognition of hostilities is formally engaged to accompany war on another alliance.

DBDC wants to call itself an alliance, but DBDC doesn't want to act like one.  If your hypothetical member dbdc12 attacks a member of another alliance then he is either committing an act of war on behalf of DBDC, or he is a rogue. 

If DBDC allows its members to attack members of alliances on their own, that is your prerogative, but if you refuse to issue DoWs or RoHs and insist that we come hat in hand to your court to figure out whether every one of DBDCs copious attacks is AA-sanctioned or a one-off, you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

The Meat and Potatoes:

 

Members in DBDC are considered members in good standing provided they are not in any offensive wars at the time of their application.  DBDC reserves the right to admit those nations and attempt to negotiate a peaceful settlement on their behalf, but is not obligated to take military action against the declaring nations.

 

Once a nation is admitted into DBDC, they are considered a formal member of this Alliance and DBDC will defend every attack on that nation as if it were an attack on the entirety of DBDC. An attack on a DBDC nation will be investigated by the leadership and may be considered an act of war resulting in collateral damage to the offending alliance responsible for the attack.

 

Alliances' membership policies are a matter of sovereignty; an alliance can accept any nation that it pleases as a member.  Unfortunately, an alliance's decision to accept a member at war does not suddenly negate the sovereign interest of the other alliance whose enemy you have just welcomed at your hearth. 

There is no international law or court, rather, there is a system of mutuality which alliances respect in order to maintain peace/stability.  For that reason, an alliance can expect that another alliance will not admit a nation that it is attacking until it is done with it.  Or, an alliance might enemy list a particularly pernicious nation to prevent its membership anywhere, but again, this depends on the mutuality of the system.

 

Unfortunately, people like you, and your friends, AAs like GOONS, Umbrella, MK, TLR, have spent the past 3 years tearing down the system.  Power, you all told us, is the only mediator, and we have it and we'll do whatever we damn well please.  Well, you might be quite a problem to whoever you attack or whoever crosses you, DBDC, but you don't have any power right now. 

 

In the past, I dare say most alliances would dead stop not just declaring new wars on a nation that got accepted somewhere, but attacking it altogether.  But that's not how you and your pals expended your capitol, and now we're all to keep our hands behind our backs while you continue wrecking newly-accepted applicants, or we're to pay ransom.

 

Well, welcome to the reality you gleefully created.

 

 

The Dessert:

 

To all of the alliances currently attacking DBDC nations and nations that are aiding DBDC, please know that DBDC is not a peaceful alliance and will never be one.  Other than the alliances against whom we have declared war or recognized a state of hostilities, the remainder of these attacks are being investigated to determine if they are rogue actions or government-sponsored attacks.  If it is determined to be government-sponsored attacks against our alliance, we will recognize a state of war with that alliance or respond in kind against the nations in range of our members.

 

Fathom to irony of an alliance which by its nature allows its members to declare war on anyone at anytime without an alliance DoW, which now announces that it will be investigating wars against itself to determine if the attackers are rogues.

You might allow your members to amble on and off the AA, but you will not excuse yourself from the global order and then check in when convenient.

 

DBDC protects its tech sellers.  Attacks made upon nations solely for the sending of aid to DBDC nations will not be tolerated.  Alliances of particular interest to DBDC currently include the Doom Squad (DS) and the Mushroom Kingdom (MK).  An attack on those nations is seen as a direct threat to DBDC and may be met with force.

 

Sending aid to an alliance at war is an act of war.  Nations or AAs which aid DBDC are engaged in hostile action toward alliances that are at war with DBDC or which DBDC is attacking, and alliances will make war on them accordingly.

 

The Check:

 

DBDC declared war on The Democratic Alliance (TDO) in a joint effort with Mushqaeda (MQ), but does not and has not ever supported a “Jihad on Neutrality”. 

 

War alongside an alliance is explicit support of its actions and underlying motives, machinations, and/or philosophies regardless of how much the enabler protests.  You are at war in alliance with MQ and your assistance is support.

 

 

I can get behind this alliance. All of you pretenders claiming to not be part of a "rigid structure"... this is how not being part of a rigid structure works.

No, playing Rebel Without a Cause and then coming out here to pontificate about how everyone except themselves has to follow rules is the opposite of "how not being part of a rigid structure works."  And I doubt Cuba is interested in anal copulation with you.

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What it boils down to is that you can call yourself whatever you want, and you can act however you want, but doing so neither removes you from the existing global system nor relieves you from the consequences of your actions in your dealings with more conventional bodies.

 

Cult of Justitia did not consider itself an alliance, and only referred to itself as one when we didn't feel like getting caught up in semantics.  However, being a mystery cult rather than an alliance didn't mean that we could just attack someone and then ask them to respond to us differently, or to accept members at war and then ask alliances to deal with us differently. 

It meant that we did things differently within the wider world with a When in Rome understanding of reality.

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What it boils down to is that you can call yourself whatever you want, and you can act however you want, but doing so neither removes you from the existing global system nor relieves you from the consequences of your actions in your dealings with more conventional bodies.

 

Cult of Justitia did not consider itself an alliance, and only referred to itself as one when we didn't feel like getting caught up in semantics.  However, being a mystery cult rather than an alliance didn't mean that we could just attack someone and then ask them to respond to us differently, or to accept members at war and then ask alliances to deal with us differently. 

It meant that we did things differently within the wider world with a When in Rome understanding of reality.

This isn't about CoJ or the way it tried to conduct itself.  DBDC are stating our beliefs and the way we choose to operate in the twisted new system.  We didn't twist the landscape to the way it is now, but we are all living in it.  

 

As of right now, the only official wars are DBDC/MQ vs TDO and GOP.  TTE declared war on MQ, and is pursuing those targets it declared on.  We generally don't have a problem with this.  What we do have a problem with is alliances that choose to interject themselves into a situation thinking all they have to do is peace out their top tier and they're cool to hit whoever they decide to call a rogue.  We are clarifying to the world that DBDC is not going to accept this doctrine.  The alliances include, but are not limited to, Fark, TPF, RnR, IRON and NATO.  None of these alliances made the distinction of: 

 

Alliances do not attack other alliances without declarations of war.  Sometimes alliances attack before the DoW posted, sometimes they rely on a corporate DoW with other alliances, but a DoW or recognition of hostilities is formally engaged to accompany war on another alliance.

 as you so eloquently put it.  Therefore if we're throwing out the term rogues, it's a two-way street.  Either these alliances are fully involved, or the nations at war with DBDC and our tech sellers (a really low tactic in any way, especially one you aren't even "involved" in) are operating independent of their AA.  Having spoken directly to the nations involved, they are being ordered to strike at DBDC and affiliated targets.

 

So either there is a distinct lack of DOW by these other major AA's, or they're taking cheap shots at nations on the DBDC they think we don't care about.  Or as RnR so eloquently put it:

 

To: CubaQuerida    From: Garion    Date: 10/6/2013 10:08:34 AM

Message: We fought at worse odds.


Have a nice day.

 

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Do something about it.

 

:smug:

 

 

Oh? I'm very sorry about using your favorite line.

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