TOP has a leak

[Ardus]

in all fairness, my presence in TOP is a pretty explicit designation as the head of all things atm

 

just sayin

[Crymson]

Considering you are a top heavy alliance and one that prides itself on selective membership you should feel pretty bad about these numbers. Look at our avg NS and your avg NS and then tell me that 5% is a good number. Aid slot efficiency is a much stronger indicator of the competence of an alliance then the comparisons you are throwing out. Not only do we outpace you by 10% but we also have double the slots to fill which means it should be more difficult to fill those slots. 

 

We have recently gone through a bout of membership deletions as you can see by our NS going up and down on a daily basis over the last week. But even with this problem we almost double your NS growth rate which is about where it should be given membership levels. Once the high end deletions stop we will more then double your NS growth rate.

 

We already know we outstripped everybody in a lot of war metrics that involve total numbers and did very well in metrics that are percentage based. I'm wondering by which metrics we are incompetent.  

 

 

I'm wondering why you're treating one member's opinion, voiced in private, as if it is TOP's global opinion.

[Neo Uruk]

Now, what of any of that is a conspiracy? It is all covered in the original post and just about says the entire thing. A conspiracy is an unfounded claim. Where have those been? Anyway, you went much further into detail than I did, when I very shortly said a sphere named after someone implied they would be the leader. You said all that - not me. You're putting an awful lot of words in my mouth. Does that make you Alterego?
 
Also, what do you mean try harder? You are the one trying to argue that I am a conspiracy theorist. Generally, trying harder would imply that I was trying to prove a point. Which I am not, you are.

You have an unfounded claim in that you are trying to say that TOP is trying to dominate the likes of Umbrella and MK. I don't know about you, but that seems to be a reach even with what the OP does say. But yeah make this about you not trying now.

[Crymson]

Wild speculation? Such as...? I feel you are being very dramatic.

 

You should be well aware by now that you have the reputation of snakes, always with a plan for every action. Like I said earlier, not an entirely bad thing, as I really do enjoy people like that. You are just a lot more on the shady side than most, and you should know that yourself.[/quote]

 

Goodness, a plan for everything? You mean this as opposed to all of those alliances that go ahead and do things without any plans whatsoever?

 

Try harder.

 

Clever and industrious? I never really even made a grand point, other than saying that naming a sphere after yourselves implied you were the head. What exactly about that makes me seem like I think I'm clever? I don't need to be clever - it's all been leaked here for everyone to see, and it doesn't take a clever person to know it.

 

I refer to your constant search for recognition and attention, into which you put so much effort.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

Starfox, the only reason why we use Platysphere is because it is a much easier designation (and we also love all things related to the Platypus) for our group of allies than 'all of our allies'.

 

By the way, we also include MK and Umbrella in the Platysphere.

 

--------

 

Shinra, a few points.

 

1)It is not much harder for larger alliances to have good aid slot usage, it is as easy, if not easier. The reason why larger alliances have bad slot usage in general is simply because they generally have bad policies in place and rather incompetent government members.

2)The reason why it is easier is because most large alliances have many members in the tech selling range. Organizing internal tech selling means you get two slots filled everytime you match two nations.

3)It also means you have many people who will likely receive aid. Sending aid is easier than finding tech sellers: when rebuilding, a lot of alliances will go to 70-80% aid slot usage. The reason is simple: being told to send money to another teammate doesn't require your member to follow up on wether or not he will receive anything or if the money will be accepted.

4)NS, especially in a post-war period, grows much faster in larger alliances. Since NS growth is linear, it's much easier for your 300 members to get to 4k infra and more rewarding than it is for our 100 members to get back to 12k infra to compensate. After they reach a certain infra limit, our nations also only grow via tech. Yours grow via tech and infra for a while.

 

For those reasons, NS growth and aid slot usage are imperfect tools.  If you want a better idea of how an alliance does, you need to look at the growth of tech per nation for a given period of time. For the month of May, in the top 20 alliances, only MK grew more than TOP in tech per nation. 

 

I'm not calling the ODN bad. I have no problem with your alliance, aside from its needlessly hostile leadership. I think you seem to be a decent bunch, who's in the higher tier of mass membership alliances, along with Pacifica and Polaris.

 

Sidenote: Our aid slot usage fluctuates from 35 to 55%. 

Edited June 12, 2013 by Yevgeni Luchenkov

[Starfox101]

You have an unfounded claim in that you are trying to say that TOP is trying to dominate the likes of Umbrella and MK. I don't know about you, but that seems to be a reach even with what the OP does say. But yeah make this about you not trying now.

I'm pretty sure I said "Generally, naming a sphere after yourself implies intended domination of said sphere."

 

Where did I mention MK, or Umbrella? They were literally never once mentioned. When did I say that TOP is trying to dominate anyone? You completely misunderstood the point and instead focused on making it something bigger than it was to impress TOP. It's not very hard to see what you're doing. You're going about it wrong, though. What you should do is build an alliance and becoming an asset to them.

 

Read what I stated, and argue that. Don't make stuff up to assist a very weak point that you are making.

 

Goodness, a plan for everything? You mean this as opposed to all of those alliances that go ahead and do things without any plans whatsoever?

 

Try harder.

 

 

I refer to your constant search for recognition and attention, into which you put so much effort.

Well, there are some alliances who ally people they identify with on a friendship level, rather than a political level. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. At least it's more straight up, and you don't have to be overly friendly and fake to achieve an objective. The best friendships come out of spontaneity. Carry on acting like it's a bad thing to be real though. Spoken like a true snake.

 

Lastly, you really are in no position to attempt to claim someone else is searching for attention. That's about been your calling your entire time here.

 

 

Starfox,
the only reason why we use Platysphere is because it is a much easier
designation (and we also love all things related to the Platypus) for
our group of allies than 'all of our allies'.

I get it. I'm not arguing it anymore. Right now, I'm merely discussing the overly dramatic and inflated claims made about my previous statement.

 

I'm not sure why, but I'm more inclined to believe it when you say it, instead of Crymson. Funny, eh?

Edited June 12, 2013 by Starfox101

[Ardus]

i denote my friendships with a set of strict contracts detailing the mutual obligations of our friendships

 

a material breach means we can't be friends anymore and i'll see them in court

[Neo Uruk]

So when you say "It's very much implied that you want to dominate somebody" without stating you don't believe it, you really mean "haha this isn't an implication of domination at all." Right.

[Starfox101]

So when you say "It's very much implied that you want to dominate somebody" without stating you don't believe it, you really mean "haha this isn't an implication of domination at all." Right.

Once again, do you see the word implied? The point I was making was that calling your grouping the Platysphere implied it was intended to be dominated by TOP. I never said TOP will dominate Umbrella, MK, or whoever the hell they are allied to. You're literally making things up to continue arguing, and if nothing else, you have a very good skillset of frustrating someone.

[Neo Uruk]

Once again, do you see the word implied? The point I was making was that calling your grouping the Platysphere implied it was intended to be dominated by TOP. I never said TOP will dominate Umbrella, MK, or whoever the hell they are allied to. You're literally making things up to continue arguing, and if nothing else, you have a very good skillset of frustrating someone.

I'm not making things up. The fact that you brought up it was implied then offered no indication that you didn't buy into that implication gave the impression that you, in fact, may just believe TOP was planning to dominate the Platysphere. Edited June 12, 2013 by Neo Uruk

[Crymson]

I'm pretty sure I said "Generally, naming a sphere after yourself implies intended domination of said sphere."

 

Where did I mention MK, or Umbrella? They were literally never once mentioned. When did I say that TOP is trying to dominate anyone? You completely misunderstood the point and instead focused on making it something bigger than it was to impress TOP. It's not very hard to see what you're doing. You're going about it wrong, though. What you should do is build an alliance and becoming an asset to them.

 

Read what I stated, and argue that. Don't make stuff up to assist a very weak point that you are making.

 

Well, there are some alliances who ally people they identify with on a friendship level, rather than a political level. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. At least it's more straight up, and you don't have to be overly friendly and fake to achieve an objective. The best friendships come out of spontaneity. Carry on acting like it's a bad thing to be real though. Spoken like a true snake.

 

Yep, because whether or not we like an alliance is [b]never[/b] a factor. Right?

 

 

Your dimness apparently comes along with a tendency to see things only in black and white.

 

Lastly, you really are in no position to attempt to claim someone else is searching for attention. That's about been your calling your entire time here.

 

Haha. Is that really the best comeback you can come up with? Try harder.

[Partisan]

Edit: Multipost

Edited June 12, 2013 by Turin

[Partisan]

Edit: Multipost

Edited June 12, 2013 by Turin

[Partisan]

Shame on you TOP, for discussing and playing politics in a political simulator! You should know better than that. How well alliances cuddle in private lobbies should be the main qualification for who to treaty. Get it right!

[OverlordShinnra]

I'm wondering why you're treating one member's opinion, voiced in private, as if it is TOP's global opinion.

 

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/116948-top-has-a-leak/?p=3137882

 

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/116948-top-has-a-leak/?p=3137904

 

I think those are pretty self explanatory.

[OverlordShinnra]

.

 

You make a lot of good points. But I think at worst the playing field is level. Outside of general activity and some general principles slot usage is directly attributable to 1 or 2 people or perhaps some sort of program. It just simply is harder to fill 1,000 slots then it is to fill 500. Sure that problem is mitigated by having some tech sellers in house but there are other factors such as reliability, inactivity, etc. that come with being a bigger alliance that make it harder. 

 

Since I don't think you are interested in epeen swinging and neither am I, I think I will leave it at that. I was more interested in defending my alliances reputation then attacking yours. 

[Solaris]

 A conspiracy is an unfounded claim. Where have those been?

 

Now look here: a conspiracy is an agreement to perform together something wrongful or perhaps sinister. A conspiracy theory is a theory pertaining to a group of people agreing together, to perform something wrongful or sinister. You claim TOP has something sinister in mind, because they have a synonym for "those alliances who are allied to us, and perhaps some periphery alliances whom have no-one else to turn towards." I find this unfounded.

[Starfox101]

Now look here: a conspiracy is an agreement to perform together something wrongful or perhaps sinister. A conspiracy theory is a theory pertaining to a group of people agreing together, to perform something wrongful or sinister. You claim TOP has something sinister in mind, because they have a synonym for "those alliances who are allied to us, and perhaps some periphery alliances whom have no-one else to turn towards." I find this unfounded.

Where did I claim TOP had something sinister in mind? Literally look everywhere, and come back and tell me.

 

What you quoted was from somebody else, kiddo.

[IYIyTh]

It's much easier to have a higher slot usage in a smaller alliance then a larger one. Tech Sellers are decently easy to find if you have the time.

 

 

This is more of a copout in that larger alliances basically admit that they tolerate a degree of inefficiency. 

 

It's something easily remedied but seldom have the manpower/time/effort/will to do something about it.

 

There is no excuse for the 15-28% TOP had hovered around last year for a good stretch of 6-7 months, however. While I see they've managed to increase that amount to 35%, I am always confused when people talk about elite alliances whether they truly mean efficiency.

 

Yes, there are other measures as well but the ability to utilize an alliances slots speaks more to the greater organizational level of the entire alliance. Then again most peoples designation of "elite," is "sits around collecting massive amounts of cash every 20 days and has been around for at least 4-7 years, also will fight when we go to war."

 

ie: saying your upper tier is buying tech but your lower tier has their slots empty is simply unacceptable. If your upper tier can buy and your lower tier can sell unless you are buying or selling for political purposes there is no excuse to have your sellers/buyers free other than inefficiency.

 

For those wishing to poo-poo the aid efficiency statistic, Umbrella has proven to just about everyone its importance.

Edited June 12, 2013 by IYIyTh

[Tiagoroth]

"sits around collecting massive amounts of cash every 20 days and has
been around for at least 4-7 years, also will fight when we go to war."

 

With that logic, we're elite. To most people and Non Grata, that's a laughable opinion.

[Stewie]

With that logic, we're elite. To most people and Non Grata, that's a laughable opinion.

Aww thanks for the namedrop. Makes me feel all fuzzy inside

[Maelstrom Vortex]

I have a theory it's an intentional leak just to keep us all from being bored and give us something to gossip about. *Yawns and goes back to sleep.*

[Tiagoroth]

Aww thanks for the namedrop. Makes me feel all fuzzy inside

 

No small fact that NG or at least Steve Buscemi have openly hated us for awhile.

[salsabeast1]

With that logic, we're elite. To most people and Non Grata, that's a laughable opinion.

You're not allied to MK, therefore you are not competent.

[Neo Uruk]

You're not allied to MK, therefore you are not competent.

Most people agree AI is a mixed bag and that NPO is competent, and they were the two main coalition enemies last war. Try harder.