IRON Announcement

[Charles the Great]

Those bastards on TOP front were always up to something.

yeah especially that bastard Auctor.......

[magicninja]

Ignoring some of your delusion and since your ominous post regarding IRON, why would IRON quake their boots over GATO? When nobody else was in the last conflict?

 

 

No the orders when not followed were changed so they ended up following orders...simples

 

If you say so. Go look at the numbers for yourself. Its hardly delusion. By all means continue to underestimate us. It makes it that much more easy when the time comes.

 

The orders we're changed because battlefield conditions changed. It was simple. 

[JoshuaR]

IRON, AI and NPO agreed to these points for the war to start:

Umbrella would take significant damage to reduce their power
Umbrella would be taken from its "untouchable" position
There would be no reps.
Damage would be kept at a lower level for MK and potentially GOONS for our joint ally in NG.
NG would support whoever was hit (either side)
...
Umbrella was the target. Umbrella took the physical damage. Umbrella took the political/image damage. That is win. If it wasn't for you... do something about it. And now you know why you weren't at the big boy table or channel.

Well maybe our image/political standing shouldn't be too bad seeing as the big players on the Eq side admit it was a planned war in large part meant to reduce our power and "untouchable" position. :P

[Gingervites]

It is doubtful you intended this, but your characterization of supporting actors as dogs on a leash, applies to every one who supported the coalition, to all of your members, and to any alliance in your orbit. It's really the perception of this sort of attitude which harmed NPO in the past and I think it underpins IRON, Sengoku, and other's recent foreign policy adjustments. Just saying. :/

Yeah but remember, being in an alliance means you're a lapdog  :rolleyes:

[Farrin Xies]

Well maybe our image/political standing shouldn't be too bad seeing as the big players on the Eq side admit it was a planned war in large part meant to reduce our power and "untouchable" position. :P

Have we ever said otherwise? :)

[Thrash]

We're one of the best built alliances with competent leadership and members more than willing to fight and follow orders? Hell our alliance infra to tech is 8:5...better than all non-neutrals in the top 12

 

lol,I spent the entire time after you declared on us trying to find people to fight from GATO and I didn't get anyone until it was known peace was on the horizon. Sure, your top-tier outnumbered most of the alliance's top-tiers who you fought and yea you knocked them down, but the difference is we had all tiers fighting, while you had one. Your 8:5 ratio is only because of your hesitance to go all out. So keep spouting off about your military prowess.

 

On another note: Brehon, you thought retirement was gonna be easy? :P

[magicninja]

lol,I spent the entire time after you declared on us trying to find people to fight from GATO and I didn't get anyone until it was known peace was on the horizon. Sure, your top-tier outnumbered most of the alliance's top-tiers who you fought and yea you knocked them down, but the difference is we had all tiers fighting, while you had one. Your 8:5 ratio is only because of your hesitance to go all out. So keep spouting off about your military prowess.

 

On another note: Brehon, you thought retirement was gonna be easy? :P

 

It's easy when its 20+ on 5 isn't it? We fought our way and it worked exceedingly well. Your frustration of not finding people to pile on and our top tier outnumbered those we fought combined. Also, we didn;t knock them down we pretty much destroyed them. None of this is either here or there. I'm still interested in why IRON thought CnG had to die..... I mean we knew that was their plan after reading AI trying to calm the fears of some of the smaller alliances whose top tiers were being decimated... He said getting CnG out was a priority. The thought was as laughable then as it is now. 

[iamthey]

Have we ever said otherwise? :)

 

I don't think you have, but some silly people like to pretend the war was actually about the CB. :P

[Alex987]

It's easy when its 20+ on 5 isn't it? We fought our way and it worked exceedingly well. Your frustration of not finding people to pile on and our top tier outnumbered those we fought combined. Also, we didn;t knock them down we pretty much destroyed them. None of this is either here or there. I'm still interested in why IRON thought CnG had to die..... I mean we knew that was their plan after reading AI trying to calm the fears of some of the smaller alliances whose top tiers were being decimated... He said getting CnG out was a priority. The thought was as laughable then as it is now. 

 

I've been watching this entire conversation, but give us a break on the faux outrage, especially considering the desire of a significant portion of C&G to continually roll SF/XX. This back and forth is getting so convoluted that being two faced is a regular occurrence.

[Thrash]

It's easy when its 20+ on 5 isn't it?

 

Difference being is that every time Invicta faced those odds (quite often), we didn't hide. You may call that suicidal, I call it fighting the war no matter what the odds.

[magicninja]

Difference being is that every time Invicta faced those odds (quite often), we didn't hide. You may call that suicidal, I call it fighting the war no matter what the odds.

 

Nah....stupid is more like it but you play your way if it suits you. 

 

To the RnR guy well you should have finished us when you had the chance.

[Thrash]

Nah....stupid is more like it but you play your way if it suits you. 

 

To the RnR guy well you should have finished us when you had the chance.

 

So I guess your allies in INT and ODN were stupid for fighting the war the way it should be fought, while you left them out to dry for your own self-perserverance (sp)? Yea.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Thrash

[Alex987]

To the RnR guy well you should have finished us when you had the chance.

 

Is that really your position? Because if it is you have no cause to complain for any desire of IRON to roll you continuously, which hasn't even been confirmed, and has been contested multiple times throughout this thread while you don't even contest C&G vs SF/XX. Stop trying to persecute others for crimes less than your own, and then giving the "might makes right" justification to me.

[Heft]

It's easy when its 20+ on 5 isn't it? We fought our way and it worked exceedingly well. Your frustration of not finding people to pile on and our top tier outnumbered those we fought combined. Also, we didn;t knock them down we pretty much destroyed them. None of this is either here or there. [b]I'm still interested in why IRON thought CnG had to die[/b]..... I mean we knew that was their plan after reading AI trying to calm the fears of some of the smaller alliances whose top tiers were being decimated... He said getting CnG out was a priority. The thought was as laughable then as it is now. 

That was never stated, nor even implied. I understand that the focus of the OP has caused confusion and consternation, but now you're just reaching for something that isn't there.

 

This cancellation isn't about CnG. It's about NPO and IRON, and no one else. There's no need for all this gnashing of teeth.

[Sir Humphrey]

I'm still interested in why IRON thought CnG had to die..... I mean we knew that was their plan after reading AI trying to calm the fears of some of the smaller alliances whose top tiers were being decimated... He said getting CnG out was a priority. The thought was as laughable then as it is now.

That is a nice straw man you have constructed there.

[magicninja]

So I guess your allies in INT and ODN were stupid for fighting the war the way it should be fought, while you left them out to dry for your own self-perserverance (sp)? Yea.

 

Of course not. The way it played out...ie derp rush and the 20+ alliances piling on...it wasn't apparent that the strategy should be employed on that vast a scale until it was too late for them. Had we seen that coming beforehand we may have even had been able to talk VE into it.  TBH it was a huge strategic mistake on your side's part. Had you trickled in alliances and then waited to pounce when we were all in you would have had us all. GATO would have went in full thinking it was like any other war. You actually gave us the onus to do what we did. There's times to go all out...when the war is short...if you have the upper hand etc. Neither of those were seen to be the case after what you guys did....so it was far better to try to find a winning strategy. Had we all been able to employ the strategy... you all would have been in some really deep trouble. We would have had no reason to quit at all....at least until you guys finally surrendered one by one.

 

and...No, coming from people in say SF/XX or even Polar it would be understandable...... IRON however....seems a bit odd to me. I didn't know we did anything to them that would cause them to feel that way.

[magicninja]

That was never stated, nor even implied. I understand that the focus of the OP has caused confusion and consternation, but now you're just reaching for something that isn't there.

 

This cancellation isn't about CnG. It's about NPO and IRON, and no one else. There's no need for all this gnashing of teeth.

 

Then why mention CnG at all in the OP? It was stated quite clearly to me. If we weren't part of it why say "NPO was obliged to preserve CnG" or "NPO valued CnG over a full victory." in your lists of reasons? Don't bullshit a bullshitter Heft. So again, why was it such a point of contention? You seem to have wanted us rolled...NPO did not so it caused a rift. It's explicitly in the OP. So, again, I ask why?  

[Gingervites]

If you say so. Go look at the numbers for yourself. Its hardly delusion. By all means continue to underestimate us. It makes it that much more easy when the time comes.

 

The orders we're changed because battlefield conditions changed. It was simple. 

I have looked at the numbers and you know what they tell me: GATO is objectively one of the worst alliances in the game. You're engagement in the last war was piss poor, no one and I mean no one in the coalition took you seriously. From our perspective your alliance was such an inept pile of trash, we even considered tasking those arrayed against you with a double duty as the threat you represented was all but an afterthought. Don't kid yourself, you are an old alliance, but that doesn't make you a good one. 

The war itself aside you're growth stats are laughable. At this very moment you have roughly half of the people you could have buying tech, and even then they're buying less than half of what they should be. You have 23% aid slot usage. Less than half your alliance has an SDI, and roughly a quarter have WRC. No magicninja, the fact that the ratios you are so proud of exist is an artifact of how useless your alliance has been in the past, not an indication of how great it will be in the future. That you are sanctioned is a consequence of your ineffectiveness in war, not your management in peace.

[Rush Sykes]

Then why mention CnG at all in the OP? It was stated quite clearly to me. If we weren't part of it why say "NPO was obliged to preserve CnG" or "NPO valued CnG over a full victory." in your lists of reasons? Don't bullshit a bullshitter Heft. So again, why was it such a point of contention? You seem to have wanted us rolled...NPO did not so it caused a rift. It's explicitly in the OP. So, again, I ask why?  

 

Couple that with the utter hilarity that IRON gov tried to sell to all of C&G in the months prior to the war. "We have no desire or wish to hit DH"... over and over and over and over.. to anyone who would drink the juice(fortunately, nobody in TLR bought that line of nonsense, we much preferred NPO's honest of saying "you realize DH is next?" IRON had no desire to war DH, but they wanted the war to last longer. They had no desire to see C&G harmed, but they wanted the war to last longer. It is an inconvenient truth that they try to cover their duplicity up with. 

Edited May 24, 2013 by Rush Sykes

[BloodFury]

The amount of stupidity in this thread is phenomenal. I can't believe I actually spent time reading this entire thread.

[Dre4mwe4ver]

It was requested of me to comment.
 

Its fun to see CnG freaking out. But yeah..carry on trolling. :popcorn:

Aye, I am freaking out because of this:

Would C&G have been destroyed by taking the offered peace before DH?

You bastards didn't even have the decency to tell me it was being offered.

That is the conclusion of my commenting.

o/ NPO
o/ IRON
All the best to both parties.

[rsoxbronco1]

The more infighting in this thread between the alliances that made up eQ, the more you prove my point that eQ (as a political movement, not individual alliances) would have absolutely collapsed under the weight of it's own incompetence if not for NPO at the helm.

 

The divergence between what various factions wanted and didn't want was comical at the time, and almost sad now.

 

This is what happens when a bunch of people who don't know how to win manage to not lose.

Edited May 24, 2013 by rsoxbronco1

[iamthey]

Couple that with the utter hilarity that IRON gov tried to sell to all of C&G in the months prior to the war. "We have no desire or wish to hit DH"... over and over and over and over.. to anyone who would drink the juice(fortunately, nobody in TLR bought that line of nonsense, we much preferred NPO's honest of saying "you realize DH is next?" IRON had no desire to war DH, but they wanted the war to last longer. They had no desire to see C&G harmed, but they wanted the war to last longer. It is an inconvenient truth that they try to cover their duplicity up with. 

 

I'm not certain of your timeline (the further back the better), but you know if CnG had entangled itself with IRON/DR, that might have reinforced the status quo relieving PF of pressure both saving the bloc and averting this most recent war. That this opportunity wasn't exploited seems almost unfortunate at this point. But fair enough.

Edited May 24, 2013 by iamthey

[Rush Sykes]

I'm not certain of your timeline (the further back the better), but you know if CnG had entangled itself with IRON/DR, that might have reinforced the status quo relieving PF of pressure both saving the bloc and averting this most recent war. That this opportunity wasn't exploited seems almost unfortunate at this point. But fair enough.

 

This entire notion is 100% absurd. The hit on DH began its planning stages nearly the moment (maybe even a few days prior to)... the Dave war ending. Any continued denial of this by anyone , anywhere on Planet Bob, is freaking ridiculous. There was no move to be made to prevent it from happening. If the NG-NPO.. NG-IRON... INT-IRON... NPO-TLR.. NPO-GATO... TIO-GATO relationships could not prevent it.. do you really think tying MORE to what would become EQ, would have stopped it? That's ridiculous.

 

Edit: Add to the above relationships that AI decided not to maintain Olympus' treaty with TLR because "we were too close to MK"... Come on man.. The writing on the wall could not have been more clear.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Rush Sykes

[Heft]

Then why mention CnG at all in the OP? It was stated quite clearly to me. If we weren't part of it why say "NPO was obliged to preserve CnG" or "NPO valued CnG over a full victory." in your lists of reasons? Don't bullshit a bullshitter Heft. So again, why was it such a point of contention? You seem to have wanted us rolled...NPO did not so it caused a rift. It's explicitly in the OP. So, again, I ask why?  

Because it was relevant to the point being made, which was to illustrate an instance of our relationship not working properly. Perhaps IRON would have preferred a more robust prosecution of the war, but that doesn't imply lingering ill-will towards C&G, just a desire to see wars we enter into fought fully. It [i]exposed[/i] a rift.

 

Honestly, from what I've seen, IRON doesn't in general seem to care much one way or the other what happens to C&G, with the exception of Int. But we were on opposite sides in the war. You are reading into the text meanings that simply don't exist. Obviously many of you didn't hold a high opinion of IRON before this, and that is fine, but you are allowing those doubts to shape your reaction to this announcement.