Equilibrium Coalition & Umbrella Coalition Agree on Peace

[ChairmanHal]

Someone seems to hate that they took more damage than Umb and got nothing but a "Yeah...ok....you beat us...whatever." in return.

 

Maybe you should ask 5 GATO nations to come do something about it.

[Sardonic]

I wish there was somebody I could drown to make all timelines where chairmanhal posts in this thread go away.

 

Stay classy, Hal.

[Azaghul]

I have to admit I haven't and can't be bothered to read all of this thread, but I skimmed some of it.

 

Those trying to say that Eq didn't win or Competence didn't lose are being dumb.  That's not to say it was a total victory for Eq.  We (Competence) won in the very top tiers, where we had the advantage.  And, in sum, had a slightly better damage ratio, which is very hard to pull off when you're greatly outnumbered.  I'm proud of our performance, we accomplished about as much as it was reasonable to expect, given the odds.  But it wasn't enough to win.  A lot of their top tiers were smashed and took a huge amount of damage, but so did a lot more of our middle and upper middle tier nations.  Getting a 1.2 damage ratio is great, but it's not enough to win when you're down 2 to 1 overall.  And winning in the top tiers isn't enough when the vast majority of nations aren't in it.

 

Should we come out with our heads held high?  Absolutely.  But let's not pretend we didn't lose.

[magicninja]

Maybe you should ask 5 GATO nations to come do something about it.

I don't particularly care and I'd only get 4.8 of those 5 nations to come to fight anyway.....but really you need to calm down bro. You did win after all....

[Banned]

I don't particularly care and I'd only get 4.8 of those 5 nations to come to fight anyway.....but really you need to calm down bro. You did win after all....

Completely disagree.  We all won, because it was war.  Only the neutral menace lost because they did not get to enjoy waking up to the smell of napalm in the morning.

[Proest]

Cut the shit Umbrella. We all had a good time fighting in this war, but our coalition lost this fight. We dominated the upper tiers, but we got crushed in the lower tiers. Our name on the OP says we surrendered. We made fun of Sparta for not being able to admit defeat, let's not be afraid to admit that we lost this battle.

JR is always my favourite Umbrellian.

[Avakael]

This must be the bit where I pretend I was relevant to the victory or something.

[President S O]

I like how elements of DH & Co. aren't delusional about the war. Conrats on peace everyone, it was fun.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

Maybe you should ask 5 GATO nations to come do something about it.

 

Ice burn. You come up with that one on your own? 

 

 

I wish there was somebody I could drown to make all timelines where chairmanhal posts in this thread go away.

 

Stay classy, Hal.

 

Too bad the Make-A-Wish Foundation didn't grant the final* wish of baby Sardonic. 

 

*before he turned 18

[Roadie]

I don't think y'all lost many battles. You lost the war.

Not disagreeing with your post, just being nitpicky. :P

 

Gonna have to agree with JoshuaR on this one. I've never seen so many unsatisfied people on both sides. Methinks he's right; this war ain't over.

[Ch33kY]

I have to admit I haven't and can't be bothered to read all of this thread, but I skimmed some of it.

 

Those trying to say that Eq didn't win or Competence didn't lose are being dumb.  That's not to say it was a total victory for Eq.  We (Competence) won in the very top tiers, where we had the advantage.  And, in sum, had a slightly better damage ratio, which is very hard to pull off when you're greatly outnumbered.  I'm proud of our performance, we accomplished about as much as it was reasonable to expect, given the odds.  But it wasn't enough to win.  A lot of their top tiers were smashed and took a huge amount of damage, but so did a lot more of our middle and upper middle tier nations.  Getting a 1.2 damage ratio is great, but it's not enough to win when you're down 2 to 1 overall.  And winning in the top tiers isn't enough when the vast majority of nations aren't in it.

 

Should we come out with our heads held high?  Absolutely.  But let's not pretend we didn't lose.

 

That's a pretty fair statement. We lost. Credit to Anarchy Inc. for having the chutzpah to organise a coalition (Equilibrium) that could force a political victory over top-strong alliances.

 

But yeah, I agree, we should keep our heads held high because we performed very well on the battlefield and showed that despite being greatly outnumbered we could force a reasonable surrender with dignity.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Ch33kY

[Cataduanes]

Meh I never got the order to see any action...hopefully I will get some action on the next conflict because we all know there will be a next one :D

[chefjoe]

That's a pretty fair statement. We lost. Credit to Anarchy Inc. for having the chutzpah to organise a coalition (Equilibrium) that could force a political victory over top-strong alliances.

 

But yeah, I agree, we should keep our heads held high because we performed very well on the battlefield and showed that despite being greatly outnumbered we could force a reasonable surrender with dignity.

 

very reasonable post and imo filled with truth. AI did something no one has ever had the balls to do(actually run straight into umbrella's tech high buzzsaw) and CO was amazingly organized and stalwart in the face of long odds and as such I would be extremely proud in your shoes also for putting up one helluva battle that earns much respect even in the admission of defeat.  I personally wasnt thrilled with the final outcome but thats how the cookie crumbles sometimes, but that doesnt take away from either statement made prior in this post. Eq "won" the war thru an admission of defeat from the other 'side' and the other 'side' should be damn proud of what they accomplished while looking at what should have been overwhelming force.

 

imo Props to all for making and participating in a war that was fought balls out by many and was a very nice change of pace from the daily routine of collecting and looking for tech with a dash of OWF drivel.

 

CJ

[Rush Sykes]

Don't try to act like a victim, if you sign treaties with two groups that are going after each other, you can only blame yourself and your FA team. 

 

Pro-Tip: Saying to me get out, isn't much effective.

 

Why is that pro-ti always solely aimed at Umbrella. Never at Sparta. 

 

First off the treaty pre-dated them ever being on opposite sides. It was when Sparta decided to form XX and essentially marry SF that the two treaties were put into total opposition. They were not put into opposition by anything at all that Umbrella did. Umbrella just stayed their course with their allies. Sparta knew full well what forming XX and marrying SF meant.  You could correctly say that neither side should have even made the futile effort to keep their relationship, and I would be ok with that. But it seems like, coming from across the web, that all of the blame falls 100% on Umbrella, and it is just simply not true.

[Rush Sykes]

I like how elements of DH & Co. aren't delusional about the war. Conrats on peace everyone, it was fun.

 

The odd thing about this is I have had far more duckroll members congratulate me on victory (because they think the terms are too lenient... there are even several examples in this thread....) yet once again.. the only focus is on about the same 5-10 folks on our side who are claiming these terms as a win. The more things change.....

[King Louis the II]

Why is that pro-ti always solely aimed at Umbrella. Never at Sparta. 

 

First off the treaty pre-dated them ever being on opposite sides. It was when Sparta decided to form XX and essentially marry SF that the two treaties were put into total opposition. They were not put into opposition by anything at all that Umbrella did. Umbrella just stayed their course with their allies. Sparta knew full well what forming XX and marrying SF meant.  You could correctly say that neither side should have even made the futile effort to keep their relationship, and I would be ok with that. But it seems like, coming from across the web, that all of the blame falls 100% on Umbrella, and it is just simply not true.

You are right when you say that the blame should not fall on umbrella 100%.

 

But You are wrong about XX.  At that time both Sparta and MHA were Umbrella allies. Sparta and RnR had ties with C&G through ODN and Inter.  Moreover, Sparta canceled on God, and sometime after that Sparta and CSN also went to different sides.

 

XX shouldn't be a problem to umbrella. at all.

 

I understand what JA said in some posts ago. My biggest problem is that, while I can't prove that, all the ideia that DH went after SF is BS. Yes, the used all the animosity against God and CSN to gather support to roll our sphere, but the ultimate target was XX not SF. Ardus and Leet mentioned many times in Sparta embassy and in other channels that they tought XX was basically too big to exist (remember that at that time fark, MHA and Sparta were in the top 5 alliances). The idea behind is that, despite the fact that XX alliances would never start a war, and that they were never elite alliances (perhaps fark being an exception), no war could have been won without XX support.

 

My biggest problem with Umbrella and specially ODN is that Sparta and XX would never let them down. But DH/C&G brought XX to the ground, not as a "collateral damage" as many say, but as a direct hit. 

[Khyber]

That's a pretty fair statement. We lost. Credit to Anarchy Inc. for having the chutzpah to organise a coalition (Equilibrium) that could force a political victory over top-strong alliances.

 

But yeah, I agree, we should keep our heads held high because we performed very well on the battlefield and showed that despite being greatly outnumbered we could force a reasonable surrender with dignity.

 

Ch33kY and Azaghul said it best.

[Omniscient1]

 
Maybe you should ask 5 GATO nations to come do something about it.

Ok, this was funny.

[RevolutionaryRebel]

I wish there was somebody I could drown to make all timelines where chairmanhal posts in this thread go away.

 

Stay classy, Hal.

Sorry, but you cannot deviate from the alpha timeline. I am sure however, that all the doomed Sardonics that tried will eventually be rallied to your defence.

Edited March 31, 2013 by revolutionary rebel

[GuMMyWoRm]

Ch33kY and Azaghul said it best.

 

I agree. I was pounded this whole war 1v3 and although i could have fought another month or two, EQ did win the war but they should have beaten us far worse with the odds we faced. So neither side should feel happy about the outcome. Good fight.

[Sang Amurwabhumi]

I have to admit I haven't and can't be bothered to read all of this thread, but I skimmed some of it.

 

Those trying to say that Eq didn't win or Competence didn't lose are being dumb.  That's not to say it was a total victory for Eq.  We (Competence) won in the very top tiers, where we had the advantage.  And, in sum, had a slightly better damage ratio, which is very hard to pull off when you're greatly outnumbered.  I'm proud of our performance, we accomplished about as much as it was reasonable to expect, given the odds.  But it wasn't enough to win.  A lot of their top tiers were smashed and took a huge amount of damage, but so did a lot more of our middle and upper middle tier nations.  Getting a 1.2 damage ratio is great, but it's not enough to win when you're down 2 to 1 overall.  And winning in the top tiers isn't enough when the vast majority of nations aren't in it.

 

Should we come out with our heads held high?  Absolutely.  But let's not pretend we didn't lose.

a fair statement like this earn my respect

 

 

Salut!!

[IYIyTh]

Why is that pro-ti always solely aimed at Umbrella. Never at Sparta. 

 

First off the treaty pre-dated them ever being on opposite sides. It was when Sparta decided to form XX and essentially marry SF that the two treaties were put into total opposition. They were not put into opposition by anything at all that Umbrella did. Umbrella just stayed their course with their allies. Sparta knew full well what forming XX and marrying SF meant.  You could correctly say that neither side should have even made the futile effort to keep their relationship, and I would be ok with that. But it seems like, coming from across the web, that all of the blame falls 100% on Umbrella, and it is just simply not true.

 

 

No. 

 

As someone who was actually involved a lot of you were so far up your own ass you always saw XX as hostile when it was never such. 

 

There was no love between three of the four alliances and most of SF, as all will admit to going into the first bloc-bloc meeting that very quickly almost ended with SF on its own altogether.

 

I personally didn't like Xiph from the onset because my first impression was seeing logs of him speaking for my bloc in private. Sparta didn't like Xiph because there was bad blood. Fark recently left SF (why, you ask?)

 

Our first meeting started with Xiph openly speaking for his bloc, which had caused ours much trouble (and mostly the only trouble it had since its inception,)  and we were almost all instantly insulted in some form or another. 

 

There was very little keeping us involved with SF if not for the pretty blatant assurance that we would be next &/ that our ally in Umbrella was sending blazing landing strip signals that it wasn't going to be helping us in either affair. In that regard Ardus got what he wanted in both being rolled because it was necessary for us to pool our resources and he could sell it by the thinly veiled pretense that SF was the actual target when it really was not -- because it was quite certain there were many opportunities that would've have satisfied a situation without XX being  a package deal but no one wanted that.

 

 

There was no "marrying," and you're ignorant if you think before it was made patently clear to us by certain parties there was absolutely no alternative what so ever, (including taking a beating in the first war and many other offers of future collaboration and virtually any other option aside from completely disregarding our treaties,) was there a firm decision to act as a unit for even the first war.

 

Umbrella was put in a position by its allies to use its strength to further their (and to a lesser degree even Umbrella's,) own agenda. While I personally understood that meant we were behind the eight ball it didn't stop I or anyone else from trying (at any stage up until towards the end,) from saving the relationship or providing Umbrella with other options. As JA said he knew he had to make a decision and felt good about it, and I was very much certain I knew what that decision was going to be and am just as certain it was made before I even made my first contact with JA where he expressed his desire to review our treaty, HEoH leaked XX logs of me sharing that information and openly questioning where Umbrella was going, Cntel where I privately aired my belief Umbrella was going to be leaving us (Sparta, MHA,) out to dry in the coming war, and certainly even after. We aren't bitter because "Umbrella didn't help us," because that simply isn't true. We're bitter because of the way it happened, and at least personally the way I was jerked around before and after.  As JA has mentioned he wishes he could've done things better. I wish I could've done at least a couple of things better. Hindsight is 20/20. You move on. However, I think it is still necessary to correct you in your (very,) flawed thinking. Saying that SF-XX were "married," is hilarious, and we were at our throats more than we were together on anything at least while I was involved.

 

After all of that -- exhausting every avenue for the future with all of our allies that didn't include SF -- did we resign ourselves to the fact there was a war coming, there was nothing we could do about it and we were going to be on the same side as SF because if we weren't it was just going to be us against the world shortly after.

 

Have they grown close during the conflict and thereafter? Forming relationships with others out of necessity that in all likelihood would not have occurred except in a forced environment and uneven treaty web? Yes. But there was never a point where a single major axis or pole of that side of the web could not have been flipped and failing to realize that out of hubris or in some cases sheer ignorance is what hurt the grand vision in the long term.

 

It is precisely that lack of foresight that lead your coalition into it's first major defeat. Dare I say you may even be doomed to repeat your mistakes if you continue to believe the world is flat.

Edited April 6, 2013 by IYIyTh

[WorldConqueror]

Myth I don't see how you could expect anyone to buy that XX and SF weren't going to be working together when R&R is in both blocs.

[IYIyTh]

Myth I don't see how you could expect anyone to buy that XX and SF weren't going to be working together when R&R is in both blocs.

 

 

To the lack of comfort pressure was often applied to R&R at least from when I was there before, during (and I'm quite sure after,) to have R&R pick a bloc. 

 

There were scenario's that included R&R fighting (and given their treaty with FOK at the time this was less of a problem to all involved,) a limited war in defense of their ally's (and similarly Fark,) or neither fighting at all. What was certain -- and what many who didn't have an in don't understand is that MHA/Sparta had no such commitment and that we openly (vehemently in private to our allies in Umbrella,) did not want to fight a war for SF and were prepared to make uncomfortable decisions after or even before the war provided we were met even a fifth of the way, and we weren't.

 

 

Again, the idea that SF-XX were "married," is simply unfounded and lacking in any actual accurate, official opinion.

[Ogaden]

NPL, RIA and R&R all had their own ties to XX that predate most of the later political shenanigans.  The RIA/Sparta treaty was inked before the Karma war, and Fark is RIA's oldest ally.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Ogaden