NATO the fearless warriors

[Krashnaia]

People tech-raid with nukes? :blink:

 

First you attack them, then you threaten to nuke them if they fight back. Not sure how long it has been a legit means of tech-raiding.

 

Anyway you shouldn't be surprised. After all, MK doctrine on Tech-Raiding states now that AA's of 60 people are legit to ghost and raid.

 

The more your friends stay at the top, the more Bob becomes a jungle.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Krashnaia

[Pingu]

It's a Hobbesian world, for sure - Bob is like Earth in that way. We've tried the Leviathan, and it was horrible. I think I'd rather deal with the jungle, if you don't mind. So if you fellas fighting for a new totalitarianism would just lay off, that would probably be in the best interests of the game.

[Sir Humphrey]

We are having fun.  The applicants are not actually our members though.  Again, no one is 'angry' at NATO.  I think its poor conduct un-becoming of them.  But ultimately they will do what they want to in this war.  Its not worth losing sleep over.  I'm a great believer in the idea that most wrongs will eventually be sorted out with time.   I feel this reflects poorly on NATO.  You can disagree.  Knowing the OWF, im sure everyone allied to NATO will disagree and everyone allied to me will agree.  Ultimately its not going to have much impact on the larger war.

You know, for someone who complains about propaganda on the OWF, you sure like to continue to spin this situation to suit your own narrative, despite the clarification provided. Rather than reflecting on NATO, you should reflect on ODN's mistake in blurring the distinction between the ODN Applicant AA and its main AA via aid transactions, and now a war declared on Sparta. Still, at any point you could have approached NATO privately to clarify and see if the issue could be resolved, but you continue to call us out publicly on the same OWF that you apparently despise so much.

[Krashnaia]

It's a Hobbesian world, for sure - Bob is like Earth in that way. We've tried the Leviathan, and it was horrible. I think I'd rather deal with the jungle, if you don't mind. So if you fellas fighting for a new totalitarianism would just lay off, that would probably be in the best interests of the game.

 

I dunno that eliminating newbies is in the best interest of the game. But that's the world that has been crafted in the latter years and that you are helping to defend.

 

I don't find many differences between the old regime and what Bob has become after Karma. Through Hegemony at least had the deference of rolepaying. If I have to get curbstomped, I prefer that at least the current bully of the moment makes a thousand words essay attemping to justify it, instead of just "Yee Haw! we are bored and jumping you just because, deal with it". A matter of tastes.

 

Anyway, I respect your decission to deal with the jungle. But that makes the OP pointless. If we live now in a Jungle were there are no rules and anything is legit if you can get away with it, then don't expect others to honor rules that your side has never honored.

 

I dunno how will things be after this war, but I don't think they will get worse.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Krashnaia

[Pingu]

 
Anyway, I respect your decission to deal with the jungle. But that makes the OP pointless. If we live now in a Jungle were there are no rules and anything is legit if you can get away with it, then don't expect others to honor rules that your side has never honored.
 
I dunno how will things be after this war, but I don't think they will get worse.

I didn't make the OP. And this is an OOC area, so we're supposed to be conversing as players here - which is why I'm ignoring all he rampant politicking going on in here. In this area, I don't have a "side".

The Jungle has laws - the law of force, mainly. The previous Hegemony added to the law of force an ideological component that made ridiculous amounts of hypocrisy the price of being allowed to grow. This is a less hypocritical era. Ugliness was to be found then and is to be found now - welcome to the anarchic world system. Back then one had to pretend it wasn't ugly, even though far worse atrocities were committed in-game than anything since Karma. That hypocritical veneer may be the essence of civilization - but it is only veneer, and it conceals the ugly bits rather than remove them.

I'm glad you don't think things are going to get worse. If this ends in stalemate, you may be right. But if the desire is to restore 'civilization,' as in dressing up the ugliness prettily, I don't see how that is better.

[the rebel]

I'm glad you don't think things are going to get worse. If this ends in stalemate, you may be right. But if the desire is to restore 'civilization,' as in dressing up the ugliness prettily, I don't see how that is better.

 

Which is worse and to whom is always subjective and also to a degree dependant on what side of the web you're on.

 

Edit: missed a word.

Edited March 16, 2013 by the rebel

[Krashnaia]

 This is a less hypocritical era.

 

That's false. Your side still attemps to "politically justify" things. It's just they lack the skill of the leaders of former Hegemony, and have to end up with the "yee haw deal with it", which is the total loser's way of saying "you are right but I'm not going to acknowledge it".

 

For example, take this war. Umbrella invoked some silly internal tradition nobody cares about to attemp to claim that they weren't slot-filling puppets... and keep doing so even after admin deleted the wars for slot-filling. Talk about hypocrisy.

 

Then we have GOONS saying that tech-raids aren't wars one week, and saying that tech-raids are wars the next one. Or MK, the masters of "if we do it, it's legit, if anyone else does it, it's the most barbaric thing in the world".

 

If we are gonna discuss hypocrisy, then tell me... if you can't stand someone, what's more hypocrital? to tell him you want him out of the game and sanction him to EZI, or to send the Troll Squad to perform character assasination in the OWF and roll his bloc each couple of months with no CB whatsoever?

 

In the end, the comparation between pre-Karma and post-Karma isn't a matter of "civilization vs anarchy". It's a matter of competence. Only the truly incompetent attempt to rule through naked force - because they are incapable of doing anything else.

 

What comes next will depend on whose leaders of whose alliances make it to the top. Some have an inmature desire to dominate others, and that leads us to this filth. Others just want to be left alone. Most are driven by deep resentment and hatred at this point. In the end, the best way to promote a better Bob is promoting that no side has the power to unilaterally do his bidding: Equilibrium.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Krashnaia

[Groucho Marx]

That's false. Your side still attemps to "politically justify" things. It's just they lack the skill of the leaders of former Hegemony, and have to end up with the "yee haw deal with it", which is the total loser's way of saying "you are right but I'm not going to acknowledge it".

 

For example, take this war. Umbrella invoked some silly internal tradition nobody cares about to attemp to claim that they weren't slot-filling puppets... and keep doing so even after admin deleted the wars for slot-filling. Talk about hypocrisy.

 

Then we have GOONS saying that tech-raids aren't wars one week, and saying that tech-raids are wars the next one. Or MK, the masters of "if we do it, it's legit, if anyone else does it, it's the most barbaric thing in the world".

 

If we are gonna discuss hypocrisy, then tell me... if you can't stand someone, what's more hypocrital? to tell him you want him out of the game and sanction him to EZI, or to send the Troll Squad to perform character assasination in the OWF and roll his bloc each couple of months with no CB whatsoever?

 

In the end, the comparation between pre-Karma and post-Karma isn't a matter of "civilization vs anarchy". It's a matter of competence. Only the truly incompetent attempt to rule through naked force - because they are incapable of doing anything else.

 

What comes next will depend on whose leaders of whose alliances make it to the top. Some have an inmature desire to dominate others, and that leads us to this filth. Others just want to be left alone. Most are driven by deep resentment and hatred at this point. In the end, the best way to promote a better Bob is promoting that no side has the power to unilaterally do his bidding: Equilibrium.

 

 

What are you even talking about? I can't think of anything we've said about raiding that would be hypocritical of us.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Emperor Marx

[Grand Lord of Funk]

"We have no issues at all with the war on the ODN AA. This is why no one in ODN has even bothered to try and leave the AA, or complained about the conduct of the alliances fighting us (in fact, we are rather proud of having the new cn record for most alliances at war with us!)" Then why did ODN start this thread?

[Pingu]

"We have no issues at all with the war on the ODN AA. This is why no one in ODN has even bothered to try and leave the AA, or complained about the conduct of the alliances fighting us (in fact, we are rather proud of having the new cn record for most alliances at war with us!)"

Then why did ODN start this thread?

ODN didn't. This is not Alliance Announcements. One player started this thread because he was surprised to see NATO members with nukes attacking an applicant AA. If this was an ODN-NATO issue, it would be dealt with via private channels or, if necessary, in an IC area of the forum.

@Krashnaia - of course force is more efficient when disguised with ideology. I don't know how you get from there to relative competence, though. If DH have actually been running the game for the past couple of years, as you claim, presumably they are adequately competent.

Equilibrium means balance. You need broadly equal forces capable of balancing each other to achieve it. It is hardest to sustain in multipolarity. I don't think you'll get your wish - at least, not for long.

If those fueled by bitterness and resentment end up on top, we will really be in for the worst times. Happily, such emotions tend to get in the way of effective decision-making, so they seem unlikely to be the winners.

.

[SpacingOutMan]

Everyone should get screened. This thread is going to give someone cancer.

 

Also: it has been general practice to hit applicant AAs since, well, as far as I can remember. Don't want your applicant AA to get hit? Stop recruiting mid-war. 

[Captain Enema]

Are nations on the "ODN Applicant" AA aware that there's a war going on and that they might get attacked because of their choice of AA?

 

 

 

 

Well, I suspect by now most of them are and if they aren't I reckon they'll figure it out shortly. Sort of Darwinian if you ask me, culling the nation pool to sort through the weak lessor nations who fall to the wayside and leaving the strong.

[bucovina]

"We have no issues at all with the war on the ODN AA. This is why no one in ODN has even bothered to try and leave the AA, or complained about the conduct of the alliances fighting us (in fact, we are rather proud of having the new cn record for most alliances at war with us!)" Then why did ODN start this thread?

 

This wasn't started by ODN. It was started out of curiosity, borness, madness, call it however you want. Unfortunately as every topic it deviates from a civillized manner to a trolling one. Have a nice day!

[Dochartaigh]

This wasn't started by ODN. It was started out of curiosity, borness, madness, call it however you want. Unfortunately as every topic it deviates from a civillized manner to a trolling one. Have a nice day!

 

As I pointed out earlier, the OP is just one massive trolling of NATO. There was never any sort of "civilized" manner in which this thread started. From your topic title to your OP, you have been uncivilized. When called out on it, you resorted to calling everyone else uncivilized and tried to dress this up as if it was not some massive troll attempt on your part.

[shahenshah]

Lol this guy should lose his privilege to speak.
 
Anyway I got my answer about whether the new hegemony will make the world a better place than the world MK "controlled". Thanks!

did i hit a nerve?

This is the first time youre kind-of (pm and all) fighting on loosing side in 6 years, so you're image will only improve.

[Tiggah]

I'm surprised this thread is continuing. Attack who you like. Hitting new nations (most of which aren't really even ODN applicants) with nuclear capable nations seems like ridiculous overkill, but who am I to question your resource management? Meanwhile, I steamroll three NATO nations unhindered in pretty much the same range...

did i hit a nerve?
This is the first time youre kind-of (pm and all) fighting on loosing side in 6 years, so you're image will only improve.

Was GWIII seriously six years ago? Wow.. time flies. We took a pretty solid pummelling in the Dave War as well when SF-XX decided we were the weak link and piled on us there as well. Yes, we won (IRON was actually pretty helpful in that win), but our opponents certainly had the opportunity to hit our Applicants then as well given how much they outnumbered us.

[berbers]

They shouldn't be sending aid to someone at war with us if they didn't want to get hit.

That being said, this is a non-issue and 30 seconds of diplomacy can resolve it.

[Geerland]

did i hit a nerve?

This is the first time youre kind-of (pm and all) fighting on loosing side in 6 years, so you're image will only improve.

(2060) 412 + 1648 Orange Defense Network

Even with PM we have the most wars ;)

[Tiggah]

They shouldn't be sending aid to someone at war with us if they didn't want to get hit.
That being said, this is a non-issue and 30 seconds of diplomacy can resolve it.

Most of the guys you're hitting aren't sending aid. FunkyMunkey & Pemimpi are both ghosting the AA at this point for example and have no aid history at all. I personally don't care, but I'd just as soon put this to bed because this thread is a bit of an embarrassment. Give me a few minutes to sign up on your forums and so forth.