DoorNail Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Yes, you threw your alliance under the bus to get our attention. Yes, our declaration of war and subsequent decimation of your stats brought negotiations back to the table. Peace was then achieved. You'd be a brilliant strategist if it weren't for the fact that you complained the whole time for entirely foreseeable results and then tried to hold off peace based off the results of your actions. Kaskus and PPO are very lucky to have such an impressive character as their ward. No, we drove the bus(no it's not a short bus), it's a big ass bus with big mud tires and we rammed that sucker right between you guys. :P Yes, I've got my own way of doing things and to some it may seem unconventional or weird, but as long as the goal that is set gets hit, the results are the same. I have a reason for doing everything I do, if I feel like explaining those reasons or not, depends on what mood I'm in. I couldn't be happier that it's over, now we can all move on to greener pastures. Edited February 20, 2013 by DoorNail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Wally Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 This is a peace deal I am very happy to see. Glad it could be resolved. o/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabonnobar Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 Finally. Hails all around and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3mon Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 Congratz on the peace. o/ NSO o/ NPO o/ SL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bit Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 Everybody its a war, if not fighting to win, then what? Use all means to destroy the enemy, I would expect no less. But this war is over, we have fought and learned, now time to rebuild for the next party. good day, as I said my bath water is now warm, DO NOT make me get dirty again! And Riceroy when done I will be hungry, can you make up some of "the sanfransico treet" I love that stuff, and thanks again for the winter distraction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollard Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 I hereby release Kaskus from my viceroyship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 So much getting worked up over previous aspects of my last post, I'm not going to bother quoting it all. I don't have a problem with DoorNail being dragged into the war, as I said, that's the nature of war. You establish logistics lines for your side, and you cut logistics lines for the other team. Whether or not I find that cheap and dirty, it is so universally. Of course Doornail dragged himself into the war by sending aid to his allies. However, as stated, to call that "bad and wrong" as was done, and then to in the same breath paint the picture as it perfectly acceptable for people supporting the other side to do the exact same thing, well that is an argument or morals, and quite frankly, morals are universal, whether they can be enforced or not. I really don't have a problem with what Doornail did, or that it was used as a reason to bring Kaskus' protectee into the conflict. He involved himself in the war. I wouldn't have a problem if Kaskus attempted to similarly cut off NSO's supply lines in a similar fashion has they been on the other side of the war. As stated, I don't have a problem with it, I'm not even really that bothered that NSO makes the argument "well we could do it, and they couldn't, because we were winning and they just didn't have the power to enforce any of that." Particularly when an ally aids another ally but doesn't want to jump into the mix of combat, well, it's agreed that they put themselves in it. All that said though, "it's bad and wrong" for one side, and "perfectly acceptable, don't like it do something about it" and thinking that such a "moral" argument could be made, well it's an oxymoron that just doesn't stand. I'm not the one that brought "morality" into it, I just commented about the blatant spitting in the face of logic. I'll also admit that I'm not personally a fan of NSO, but that doesn't drive an intent to come in here to trash-talk you guys. If that was the goal, I would have been in here talking about how it was finally nice to see NSO be able to get their &^$* together long enough to put this thing away. So, just for the sake of making myself perfectly clear, do I think that NSO was justified in lining up the firing squad on DoorNail? Absolutely. If using clauses in a protectorate treaty is what he intended, then he may as well have just fired off those joint defensive clauses that most of them contain, and jumped in the thing like a man. Was it "bad and wrong" for him to aid Kaskus? No, not by any means. DoorNail serves as a disgrace to his alliance for not manning up for war right from the start of that conflict. I've run a micro, and had our protectors found themselves at war, you better believe that would have been an instant cause for an activation of defense and aggression clauses, and we'd have been in that mix. Why? Simply look back at the history. Larger alliances have raided unprotected alliances in the past, and if it wasn't for protectors, a lot of alliances might not have ever got off the ground. They're your friends, and that support should be expected in both directions. And that means more than aid. The way that DoorNail handed things, he certainly hasn't earned anybody's respect. However, I think that the way that NSO handled just about every other aspect of this war... well, they really haven't either. Not that you need my respect, or anybody else's. You can be fine sitting in your corner with your usual allies, but the argument that I was responding to doesn't stand, which is all that I was pointing out, and not saying that "such and such side was right" or "such and such side was wrong". In this case, I think both parties had their faults. Nobody from NSO's side has ever argued that DoorNail was "wrong" in a moral sense to aid Kaskus. You are attacking a straw man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted February 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 No, we drove the bus(no it's not a short bus), it's a big ass bus with big mud tires and we rammed that sucker right between you guys. :P Yes, I've got my own way of doing things and to some it may seem unconventional or weird, but as long as the goal that is set gets hit, the results are the same. I have a reason for doing everything I do, if I feel like explaining those reasons or not, depends on what mood I'm in. I couldn't be happier that it's over, now we can all move on to greener pastures."rah rah rah I butted my big nose into a situation and created the resolution."You sound like VE/MK would have had they been as silly as you and tried claiming they were responsible for the Tetris-Legion War peace with their interjection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC123 Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 "rah rah rah I butted my big nose into a situation and created the resolution." You sound like VE/MK would have had they been as silly as you and tried claiming they were responsible for the Tetris-Legion War peace with their interjection. Actually doornails claim is a bit more silly seeing as MK/VE actually had the ns to destroy you guys and Legion, where as TSL... well.. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenMorningstar Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 No, we drove the bus(no it's not a short bus), it's a big ass bus with big mud tires and we rammed that sucker right between you guys. :P Yes, I've got my own way of doing things and to some it may seem unconventional or weird, but as long as the goal that is set gets hit, the results are the same. I have a reason for doing everything I do, if I feel like explaining those reasons or not, depends on what mood I'm in. I couldn't be happier that it's over, now we can all move on to greener pastures. Are you really trying to take credit for something here? Someone bill lock this loser already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 NSO o/ SL o/ Kaskus o/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bit Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) I hereby release Kaskus from my viceroyship. I VETO the release of the Riceroy, untill all Kaskus is served Rice-A-Roni "the SanFransico treat" as agreed in the terms for release of the Riceroy Edited February 20, 2013 by Lord Bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oranges Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 To our allies in NSO, and your allies at Shangri-La: o/ victory! It was an honour to fight by your side. To our foes at Kaskus and The Shadow Legacy: you fought well, as honourable opponents. There is a reason why Kaskus has the reputation that it does when fighting, and it was ably proven this war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwish959 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 NSO o/ SL o/ Kaskus o/ Thanks for the quality post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Flynt Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 A well deserved victory, Kaskus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Youwish did you miss the peace announcement from NPO... who signed it ;) Me, thus those are my official words... and a o/ for all of NSO minus Youwish :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Buscemi Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Congrats on peace guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banned Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Nobody from NSO's side has ever argued that DoorNail was "wrong" in a moral sense to aid Kaskus. You are attacking a straw man. Perhaps I should requote what I've already quoted, and this time I'll underline the pertinent section to address this. DoorNail fucked up. Period. There's no two ways of looking at it. Good intentions or bad is subjective and irrelevant, he directly ignored the warnings to not aid. This made the action itself bad and wrong. NEWs aid, SLs aid, NPOs aid: are all irrelevant to the case. When NPO declared war, the words were written on the wall: If Kaskus had any problems with NSO receiving aid, the onus is on them to 'do something about it.' You're failure to make the choice, or display the ability, is not our fault. It's the course of the war. This does not make us bullies. This does not make us bad guys. DoorKnob, this does not make us liars. This makes us leaders who've displayed the ability to lead our alliances to victory and deserved justice through both force and foreign ability. Now, your claim can only be one of two things as I see it. I'll list them as I predict from most to least likely. 1. Your claim is that I misunderstood what Rayvon meant when saying that the action of aiding Kaskus was bad and wrong. I'll cede that it is quite possible that Rayvon did not choose those words meaning to represent them in such context. If that is true, then it was a bad word choice. I really don't see another possible meaning given the context. 2. You are indicating that Rayvon is not on your side. In which case, what the hell, I haven't done the research, maybe the alliance name indicated under said persons avatar is misleading. In which case, I could be wrong. Bad and wrong are words used to describe morally objectionable things. It could be true that it was not meant this way, but I really don't see another way in that context to interperet that. If it were a matter of poor choice, the word "bad" would have sufficed just fine, and the choice of the word "wrong" would have been entirely unnecessary. Perhaps a "bad" decision, and making the "wrong" decision could be used to define something that is not morally objectionable but was just a poor choice, but then I would argue, that this is a matter of poor word choice, leading readers to confusion in their efforts to construct a meaning. I would argue that the decision to assist an ally is not a matter of poor decision making, though I would cede that it was not the best decision, as I think helping an ally in war means that you sacrifice your pixels right alongside them. Either way, your "straw man" fallacy approach isn't really valid, as I haven't constructed some fictional character here and weakened their argument when I made it in their own words. What "so and so" would say in a discussion is not the issue, I'm responding to what was actually said by the referenced individual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakamitai Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 It's about bloody time. Great fight Kaskus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted February 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Bad and wrong are words used to describe morally objectionable things.2+2=3Is this immorral? Or is this wrong? Maybe it's just bad typing skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwish959 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) Youwish did you miss the peace announcement from NPO... who signed it ;) Me, thus those are my official words... and a o/ for all of NSO minus Youwish :) All I saw is some shit a Sith alumni typed up and slapped your name on. Perhaps I should requote what I've already quoted, and this time I'll underline the pertinent section to address this. Now, your claim can only be one of two things as I see it. I'll list them as I predict from most to least likely. 1. Your claim is that I misunderstood what Rayvon meant when saying that the action of aiding Kaskus was bad and wrong. I'll cede that it is quite possible that Rayvon did not choose those words meaning to represent them in such context. If that is true, then it was a bad word choice. I really don't see another possible meaning given the context. 2. You are indicating that Rayvon is not on your side. In which case, what the hell, I haven't done the research, maybe the alliance name indicated under said persons avatar is misleading. In which case, I could be wrong. Bad and wrong are words used to describe morally objectionable things. It could be true that it was not meant this way, but I really don't see another way in that context to interperet that. If it were a matter of poor choice, the word "bad" would have sufficed just fine, and the choice of the word "wrong" would have been entirely unnecessary. Perhaps a "bad" decision, and making the "wrong" decision could be used to define something that is not morally objectionable but was just a poor choice, but then I would argue, that this is a matter of poor word choice, leading readers to confusion in their efforts to construct a meaning. I would argue that the decision to assist an ally is not a matter of poor decision making, though I would cede that it was not the best decision, as I think helping an ally in war means that you sacrifice your pixels right alongside them. Either way, your "straw man" fallacy approach isn't really valid, as I haven't constructed some fictional character here and weakened their argument when I made it in their own words. What "so and so" would say in a discussion is not the issue, I'm responding to what was actually said by the referenced individual. S my D Edited February 21, 2013 by youwish959 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anarquista Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 congratulations to all parties for acheiving peace, but especially our allies at shangri-la SL o7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 This was showed a few things, NSO/SL/NPO are classy as hell, Kaskus fight like cornered badgers, and Doornail should definitely get beat up more. Good fight guys, now sit back and enjoy the rebuild while everything else around you burns, you earned it!! o/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ilyani Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Congrats to my friends in the New Sith Order on their well deserved peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) Youwish, read the second post olltray boy :) And it wasn't written by a Sith alumni :) Edited February 21, 2013 by Brehon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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