A Statement from BFF

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1357860582' post='3074187']
Well, I suppose you are the expect on posts which are painful to read.
[/quote]Is this irony or are you just dumb?

Anyway congrats to BFF on finding an out and avoiding the coming storm for a few more weeks? Maybe? I think the ball is still in NSO's court with regards to what they'll want from NEW.

[AirMe]

[quote name='Walshington' timestamp='1357879899' post='3074551']
[b]Well, that's what it looks like in these diagrams:[/b]



[b]Do these diagrams reflect the intent of the OP? Please don't answer if you're not BFF.[/b]
[/quote]

I am not BFF. That was posted by someone not in BFF. Those do not reflect the intent of BFF.

[OsRavan]

[quote name='Walshington' timestamp='1357879899' post='3074551']
[b]Well, that's what it looks like in these diagrams:[/b]
[/quote]


I'm sorry. Maybe you didnt mean it that way, but I kind of laughed at that. Am i missing something or are those 'diagrams' not someones joke? Next ill start putting d34 propoganda up and using that as proof for my various OWF statements.

[William Blake]

whew, dizzying amounts of spin going on. Those VE, GOONS, and BFF guys should be getting paid overtime.

[D34th]

[quote name='OsRavan' timestamp='1357880165' post='3074555']
I'm sorry. Maybe you didnt mean it that way, but I kind of laughed at that. Am i missing something or are those 'diagrams' not someones joke? Next ill start putting d34 propoganda up and using that as proof for my various OWF statements.
[/quote]

The funny thing is they aren't jokes. Tragic, if not comic or [i]vice-versa.[/i]

[Walshington]

[quote name='OsRavan' timestamp='1357880165' post='3074555']
I'm sorry. Maybe you didnt mean it that way, but I kind of laughed at that. Am i missing something or are those 'diagrams' not someones joke? Next ill start putting d34 propoganda up and using that as proof for my various OWF statements.
[/quote]

No, they were posted by someone [b]IN[/b] BFF. What I am too old or too dumb to get is whether they represent a plan hastily proposed and quickly rejected, or if they are the true intent behind the OP. And I don't want to hear it from the peanut gallery, I want to hear it from the horse's mouth. Not that I'm owed a damn thing, but this seems to be an important point and I'm missing it.

[thedon125]

The drawings came before the talks were done. They were a preliminary thought, though I am not privy to if they were ever seriously considered, or scrapped immediately.

(I am still BFF, btw)

[Walshington]

[quote name='thedon125' timestamp='1357880637' post='3074564']
The drawings came before the talks were done. They were a preliminary thought, though I am not privy to if they were ever seriously considered, or scrapped immediately.

(I am still BFF, btw)
[/quote]

So they do [b]NOT[/b] represent the intent of the OP? If BFF defends NEW it will be to the hilt, nukes and all, for as long as it takes?

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

Had a wall of text prepared, dumped it for the sake of everybody.


I'll address a few points I've seen come up, and I want people to understand that I've been nothing but transparent and truthful this entire time. If you can point out me lying, we'll talk.

To address a point that has been repeated: We posted this thread not to grandstand or claim a moral high ground. We posted this because it's fairly common to post a treaty cancellation on the OWF. I'm not sure when that's ever been rare. We clarified our stance in a transparent, honest way in the OP due to the nature of the situation (with the Kaskus aid situation and NPO's declaration last night). Leaving that to speculation would be moronic at best.

With regards to our nonnuclear agreement, as has been stated several times, we were not the "masterminds" behind that plan, the idea was tossed our way at some point in the crisis and we rolled with it. Why, you ask? Cowardice? You can call it that if that makes it easier for you to get your rocks off, but we know it isn't true. As an elected leader of BFF, my number one priority is my members, same or the leader of any other alliance. My immediate second responsibility is to my allies, in this situation allies who were not actively throwing us a hot pot of boiling feces. I ask you, all political maneuvering aside, is it horrible for me to openly that that I shall protect my members first? Isn't that the point of an alliance? Of a leader? And if that means working with some shady terms regarding a nonnuclear war, a war which, by the way, we planned on going balls-out in, then that's what I will accept. If that further helps guarantee that the situation will not blossom into something global (again, I didn't want UnknownSmurf to get credit for that), thus protecting our allies, then you must see the scale here. On one hand I had an ally we intended to cancel on who put us into this situation. On the other hand, we have every member of BFF plus all of our allies. Where, I ask, would you go?

Now, onto my next point, the issue of TheDon: He has been talking with me, and (correct me here if I'm wrong, Don) his reaction in this thread was based largely on emotions, stress, and a desire to let his voice be heard in the situation. I do not fault him for that, I hold no ill-will toward him, and I still see him as a friend and a strong alliance-mate. We are working to complete a solid, factual picture of the leadup to to the NEW/BFF situation, so please give us time on that.

The number of proposals BFF was thrown in the 20+ hours this crisis existed cannot be counted on two hands. Everybody and their mother was trying to manipulate, coax and pressure us into making[i] [/i][i]their [/i]side come out on top. A wise man talked to me last night, and his words resonated deeply. Brehon of NPO, I thank you for this. He pointed out to me, to sum it up, $%&@ the OWF, $%&@ PR, $%&@ what other people think. This is a BFF situation, and BFF needs make a decision for BFF, not anybody else.

Today, we came together with several different !@#$%* proposals. We were not going to cut and run on NEW, sorry. We were not going to ride in nukes-blazing with them against NPO either and kill our alliance in a war we had absolutely no say in starting. We found a middle ground and we went with it. Was it distasteful and disgraceful to negotiate a limited war with NPO behind NEW's back? Absolutely. I understood that at the time, I understand it now, and I accept full responsibility for it. I assure you it was not done out of selfishness for myself, but out of my desire to protect BFF as best as possible.

If I am being unclear on some items, I am contritely apologetic for it. Due to an OOC issue, I have not slept in two days and my memory is fuzzy at best. I am handling this to the best of my abilities, but please bear with me on it.

On a final note, as the senior Ayatollah of BFF, I accept the full blame and responsibility for this fiasco. I never intended for things to get this ugly, but my actions in the last two days, as Don said, were not becoming of an alliance leader or a steadfast ally. In terms of alliance policy, and let me make this abundantly clear, [b]Should NEW find themselves under attack at any point in the next seven days, the entirety of BFF will burn to ZI if that's what it takes. [/b]We declared intent to back our allies, and that's what we intend to do.

And I leave you with two parting comments. 1, I hate these forums because they screw with my typing, and I apologize for this wall of text. Two, a candid moment of me last night, unedited, venting to close allies about the situation and how I really felt.


01[06:03] <@Chax[BFF]> !@#$@#$ NEW. just...goddammit
01[06:03] <@Chax[BFF]> I'm falling in love with them again and it sucks. We're committed to this plan because it's the only way we can do this. But still, this cancellation is going to hurt me a lot personally, several of us oldies at BFF too.
01[06:04] <@Chax[BFF]> It has to happen, we know that, but that doesn't mean it won't be a difficult pill to swallow and a sad day for us.
01[06:04] <@Chax[BFF]> $%&@ NEW for pushing us to this. $%&@ them so hard. We gave them every goddamned chance to come back from the !@#$@#$ brink, we were paitent with them time and time again, and they told us off more or less.
01[06:04] <@Chax[BFF]> They $%&@ed us in Dave War, they refused to even answer PMs between then and now, they literally did $%&@ all for us
01[06:05] <@Chax[BFF]> now they're all active again acting like everything's all good, like we're supposed to be thrilled that they !@#$@#$ got Int and BFF into a cluster$%&@ of unholy proportions without so much as consulting us
01[06:05] <@Chax[BFF]> but they're making me wish I could do SOMETHING to prevent this. There's no way they won't attack now, they won't listen to reason, so we're stuck.
01[06:05] <@Chax[BFF]> </rant>

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1357876659' post='3074478']
Cancelling on NEW was completely understandable and required no explanation. The laughable part is BFF trying to secure a non-nuke agreement with us and NPO so they could look "honorable". It always looks bad when alliances try to cut backroom deals. Very dissapointing BFF.
[/quote]

Looks more bad once you wrap it around things like these:


[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1357858813' post='3074149']
[center]This isn't to say we don't enjoy a good scrap; we really love showing all of you how not to build an alliance. Had we been contacted prior to the aid being sent, this would be a different show[/center]
[/quote]

How would the show be different?

Edited January 11, 2013 by shahenshah

[thedon125]

Chax, we all know that it is not your sole fault, and I'm not sure why a number of people saw my post as an attack on you, but it was not directed at you specifically. Never when I typed it did I think, "Man, that Chax guy, always messing things up." It was expressing disappointment in the decision at large, a decision that a large number of people, both within and external to, BFF came to.

I know you, personally, did what you felt best for BFF, same with SniperJoe.

Edited January 11, 2013 by thedon125

[Namayan]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1357880823' post='3074567']
Absolutely. I understood that at the time, I understand it now, and I accept full responsibility for it. I assure you it was not done out of selfishness for myself, but out of my desire to protect BFF as best as possible.
[/quote]

sorry to not include your wall of text. But that is command responsibility and mark of a leader of an alliance, not scapegoating.

It must be the Political Science background of most of BFF.

I salute your for this.

[magicninja]

I liked my plan better.

[Brehon]

Sometimes !@#$ sandwiches can't be made better, you just have to eat them.

o/ Chax

[HeroofTime55]

"It's okay to be a coward because I have a duty to protect the members!"

[white majik]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1357881438' post='3074575']
I liked my plan better.
[/quote]
me too, would have made for even more entertainment




It sucks to be put in a !@#$%* position like this Chax, dont let the haters get you down and go get some damn sleep. I dont think anyone wanted a war based around New to go global. So till next time, coddle your blue balls.


:majik:

[keeology]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1357880823' post='3074567']
Had a wall of text prepared, dumped it for the sake of everybody.


I'll address a few points I've seen come up, and I want people to understand that I've been nothing but transparent and truthful this entire time. If you can point out me lying, we'll talk.

To address a point that has been repeated: We posted this thread not to grandstand or claim a moral high ground. We posted this because it's fairly common to post a treaty cancellation on the OWF. I'm not sure when that's ever been rare. We clarified our stance in a transparent, honest way in the OP due to the nature of the situation (with the Kaskus aid situation and NPO's declaration last night). Leaving that to speculation would be moronic at best.

With regards to our nonnuclear agreement, as has been stated several times, we were not the "masterminds" behind that plan, the idea was tossed our way at some point in the crisis and we rolled with it. Why, you ask? Cowardice? You can call it that if that makes it easier for you to get your rocks off, but we know it isn't true. As an elected leader of BFF, my number one priority is my members, same or the leader of any other alliance. My immediate second responsibility is to my allies, in this situation allies who were not actively throwing us a hot pot of boiling feces. I ask you, all political maneuvering aside, is it horrible for me to openly that that I shall protect my members first? Isn't that the point of an alliance? Of a leader? And if that means working with some shady terms regarding a nonnuclear war, a war which, by the way, we planned on going balls-out in, then that's what I will accept. If that further helps guarantee that the situation will not blossom into something global (again, I didn't want UnknownSmurf to get credit for that), thus protecting our allies, then you must see the scale here. On one hand I had an ally we intended to cancel on who put us into this situation. On the other hand, we have every member of BFF plus all of our allies. Where, I ask, would you go?

Now, onto my next point, the issue of TheDon: He has been talking with me, and (correct me here if I'm wrong, Don) his reaction in this thread was based largely on emotions, stress, and a desire to let his voice be heard in the situation. I do not fault him for that, I hold no ill-will toward him, and I still see him as a friend and a strong alliance-mate. We are working to complete a solid, factual picture of the leadup to to the NEW/BFF situation, so please give us time on that.

The number of proposals BFF was thrown in the 20+ hours this crisis existed cannot be counted on two hands. Everybody and their mother was trying to manipulate, coax and pressure us into making[i] [/i][i]their [/i]side come out on top. A wise man talked to me last night, and his words resonated deeply. Brehon of NPO, I thank you for this. He pointed out to me, to sum it up, $%&@ the OWF, $%&@ PR, $%&@ what other people think. This is a BFF situation, and BFF needs make a decision for BFF, not anybody else.

Today, we came together with several different !@#$%* proposals. We were not going to cut and run on NEW, sorry. We were not going to ride in nukes-blazing with them against NPO either and kill our alliance in a war we had absolutely no say in starting. We found a middle ground and we went with it. Was it distasteful and disgraceful to negotiate a limited war with NPO behind NEW's back? Absolutely. I understood that at the time, I understand it now, and I accept full responsibility for it. I assure you it was not done out of selfishness for myself, but out of my desire to protect BFF as best as possible.

If I am being unclear on some items, I am contritely apologetic for it. Due to an OOC issue, I have not slept in two days and my memory is fuzzy at best. I am handling this to the best of my abilities, but please bear with me on it.

On a final note, as the senior Ayatollah of BFF, I accept the full blame and responsibility for this fiasco. I never intended for things to get this ugly, but my actions in the last two days, as Don said, were not becoming of an alliance leader or a steadfast ally. In terms of alliance policy, and let me make this abundantly clear, [b]Should NEW find themselves under attack at any point in the next seven days, the entirety of BFF will burn to ZI if that's what it takes. [/b]We declared intent to back our allies, and that's what we intend to do.

And I leave you with two parting comments. 1, I hate these forums because they screw with my typing, and I apologize for this wall of text. Two, a candid moment of me last night, unedited, venting to close allies about the situation and how I really felt.


01[06:03] <@Chax[BFF]> !@#$@#$ NEW. just...goddammit
01[06:03] <@Chax[BFF]> I'm falling in love with them again and it sucks. We're committed to this plan because it's the only way we can do this. But still, this cancellation is going to hurt me a lot personally, several of us oldies at BFF too.
01[06:04] <@Chax[BFF]> It has to happen, we know that, but that doesn't mean it won't be a difficult pill to swallow and a sad day for us.
01[06:04] <@Chax[BFF]> $%&@ NEW for pushing us to this. $%&@ them so hard. We gave them every goddamned chance to come back from the !@#$@#$ brink, we were paitent with them time and time again, and they told us off more or less.
01[06:04] <@Chax[BFF]> They $%&@ed us in Dave War, they refused to even answer PMs between then and now, they literally did $%&@ all for us
01[06:05] <@Chax[BFF]> now they're all active again acting like everything's all good, like we're supposed to be thrilled that they !@#$@#$ got Int and BFF into a cluster$%&@ of unholy proportions without so much as consulting us
01[06:05] <@Chax[BFF]> but they're making me wish I could do SOMETHING to prevent this. There's no way they won't attack now, they won't listen to reason, so we're stuck.
01[06:05] <@Chax[BFF]> </rant>
[/quote]

i can imagine how hard this cancellation is for you chax. and if BFF feels the communication level wasnt there with NEW. then BFF has the right to cancel the treaty. i'm sure if NEW gets hit or goes crazy on NPO or NSO that BFF will ride in with them.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

Don and all others, thank you for the kind words. The assistance from our allies in this time will not be forgotten anytime soon. I just ask the OWF to please, for once, take time to gather facts before jumping to conclusions. However, I can't seriously ask you to do that because if the situation were reversed, I'd be doing the same thing.

@longnameislonger, I'll get some candy to you. That wasn't kind to tempt you like that.

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1357881057' post='3074570']
Looks more bad once you wrap it around things like these:
How would the show be different?
[/quote]

As I've stated here (somewhere I believe), BFF was aching for some sort of a war, just like everybody else here. If NEW had approached us with a plan to get this war started, we'd have tweaked it, gotten our allies ready, and honestly we'd have supported it. Hell, we might very well have gone it alone with NEW. The thing is, we'll never know that now.


[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1357881529' post='3074579']
"It's okay to be a coward because I have a duty to protect the members!"
[/quote]

Honestly, I'd rather be a coward in your book than a Brony in the eyes of the world any day. Call me crazy, but at least cowards aren't universally regarded as lower than dirt.

[D34th]

At least you are assuming your mistakes in this whole fiasco and this is something I respect, now GOONS and VE members can stop to spin so hard, I was already worried with their health.

[Gibsonator21]

Suggestion, and one that at least Chax will agree with: Blame everything and anything on SniperJoe.

[shirunei]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1357881529' post='3074579']
"It's okay to be a coward because I have a duty to protect the members!"
[/quote]
$%&@ Off.

No really please do

[Joe Stupid]

[quote name='shirunei' timestamp='1357882844' post='3074599']
$%&@ Off.

No really please do
[/quote]

Quality post from a quality poster.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1357882345' post='3074591']
At least you are assuming your mistakes in this whole fiasco and this is something I respect, now GOONS and VE members can stop to spin so hard, I was already worried with their health.
[/quote]

As I said in this thread earlier D34th, it was never my intention to be a liar, a backstabber, or a sleazeball. I went into this intending to offer the whole and solid truth. Somewhere we lost sight of that, due largely to emotions and anger at the situation. Regardless, what's done is done and we move on from there. In terms of GOONS/VE, they are doing what any good ally would do. We all do it all the time, so please don't act like they're in the wrong for sticking up for us.

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1357882663' post='3074594']
Suggestion, and one that at least Chax will agree with: Blame everything and anything on SniperJoe.
[/quote]

Jesus, give this man a medal.

[Sniper Joe]

Oh man, this went to !@#$ in a !@#$basket.

TheDon has not been in government for months. He's been inactive and not around and not someone who makes decisions. He wasn't there for all the crap we had to deal with from people from all corners of this godforsaken planet. He got worked up due to sentimentality and his post was emotional cherry picking at best.

Now, you all know for a fact that we did more for NEW than 99% of alliances would have. Most of you would have ran away with your tails between your legs, doing backflips to get out of honoring the treaty. We try to be better than that. So yes, we wanted to do the bare minimum to defend NEW in their retarded crusade. We owed them far less. Most of us were pissed enough to hit them ourselves. And they would have deserved it 100%. We did what we could to not completely $%&@ over our allies and others who would have been inconvenienced by our own lack of foresight and NEW's complete disregard for common decency. TORN was the first to ditch NEW. Why aren't they getting flak when we actually tried to be more than your average snake in the grass elawyer alliance? This is completely ridiculous and I think most of you know that deep down you would have done exactly the same, if not "worse." We were offered a deal to defuse the situation, we didn't seek it out. It was the right thing to do for us and ours and I don't regret it a bit.

NEW doesn't deserve the time of day, let alone an ally willing to go through the BS we have over the past two days just to not run away from the treaty we had with them. I have no regrets.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Sniper Joe

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1357882203' post='3074590']
Call me crazy, but at least cowards aren't universally regarded as lower than dirt.
[/quote]Not sure what universe you're in buddy.