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[quote name='the wompus' timestamp='1351828342' post='3047512']
You gotta be honest here - it's a lot easier to 'not suck' when you have a distinct size/money advantage.
[/quote]

Its not luck to run into a huge size, money advantage. And as far as I know we don't have a distinct size/money advantage against the world.

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[quote name='OverlordShinnra' timestamp='1351828483' post='3047514']
Its not luck to run into a huge size, money advantage. And as far as I know we don't have a distinct size/money advantage against the world.
[/quote]

I'm fairly certain at the beginning of these wars your ANS was several thousand greater than most others. (that would be a distinct size advantage)

I'm not taking anything away from you guys...it takes good nation building, etc to get there.

Speaking from OP's perspective, your ANS was double ours at the beginning and is near that now....it's quite a convenient perspective you are coming from to make your argument. Despite any efforts, experience, and general coolness we bring to the fight, unless your whole AA goes inactive, it's an impossible fight to win outright.

EDIT due to early post.

Edited by the wompus
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[quote name='the wompus' timestamp='1351829307' post='3047515']
I'm fairly certain at the beginning of these wars your ANS was several thousand greater than most others. (that would be a distinct size advantage)

I'm not taking anything away from you guys...it takes good nation building, etc to get there.

Speaking from OP's perspective, your ANS was double ours at the beginning and is near that now....it's quite a convenient perspective you are coming from to make your argument. Despite any efforts, experience, and general coolness we bring to the fight, unless your whole AA goes inactive, it's an impossible fight to win outright.

EDIT due to early post.
[/quote]


This is why RE should have hit us when they had the chance. Once they chickened out and went elsewhere there was no one else to go at. At that point we can just sit and keep building forever or DoW as many alliances as we can.

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[quote name='OverlordShinnra' timestamp='1351827590' post='3047511']
Everyone else just sucks at this game apparently.
[/quote]

That's not my position. One of the reasons that we have had a greater number of wars "against TE" is not because of some quest for world domination, but because we've found that we are much more likely to get a very good war when we face very good players from top to bottom. For the most part, you can't get that in a 1v1 alliance match up.

[quote name='the wompus' timestamp='1351828342' post='3047512']
You gotta be honest here - it's a lot easier to 'not suck' when you have a distinct size/money advantage.
[/quote]

I don't think anyone would have said anything had we done the exact same DoW the night before and just been part of the simultaneous declares. With a smaller world, it is much more difficult to 1) choose moving targets (in terms of NS, Nukes, etc) and 2) mobilize enough members to blitz and fight at a high level on short notice. Anyone who leads knows this and has stories of being put in tough situations. We could have gone to a war with NDO and Warriors, which would have been a statistical updeclare in most categories. The fact that NDO is still new to the game and we just finished working with Warriors made it a terrible option however. We could have done other things that were bad options as well. We build well and that poses a distinct challenge. But we don't build to hoard infra and cash or run for the flag as some would suggest. We know you can't take any of that into next round :P

We build so we can fight and fight well. That's what we're here for. We just want burned infra and screaming pixels everywhere.

I know that won't be persuasive to some and I know this particular war like all wars anyone seems to declare now a days will be questioned but I prefer being nuked to eating popcorn.

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[quote name='OverlordShinnra' timestamp='1351829960' post='3047521']
DoW as many alliances as we can.
[/quote]

Speaking of which, I declare war on Sunspot.

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[quote name='King James XVIII' timestamp='1351831058' post='3047526']
I know that won't be persuasive to some and I know this particular war like all wars anyone seems to declare now a days will be questioned but I prefer being nuked to eating popcorn.
[/quote]

Yea right.

You had weeks to come up with anything. And the best you could do is massive down declares on specific Nations in your 4th "war on everyone".

You may win these individuals wars, but you show TPC to be nothing but opportunistic bullies with little imagination.

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One post then I'm out lol

[quote name='King James XVIII' timestamp='1351831058' post='3047526']We could have gone to a war with NDO and Warriors, which would have been a statistical updeclare in most categories. The fact that NDO is still new to the game and we just finished working with Warriors made it a terrible option however.[/quote]
At the risk of speaking for NDO, y'know we'd have been OK with that right? Just scrounge up some alliance or three with smaller nations to help you out so we all have targets to counter back against. You get the top tioers, they can get the lower ones, and everybody has fun and war. We'd have been OK with that as long as it's a fair war across the board - which is really what most people don't like when you do these kinds of wars.

Oh yeah yeah I know it's not your fault you all build so well - but still. This is a game, and people play games so they can have fun. I think most of us have more fun when we can fight alongside our friends, expecially in our own alliance. After all that was point a bunch of people made an alliance in the first place.

Wars like this deny them that. Just think about it? You basically made sure that 14 or whatever alliances CANNOT fight their own alliance wars. Can you see that? While a few of their top nations get to fight, the bulk of their nations do NOT. How much fun is that? I'm sure YOU all are having a great time, but spoiling the fun for a bunch of other alliances promotes bitterness.

Its even not really like you declared an alliance war.
You just went alliance-wide rogue.

I'm just sayin', man.

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[quote name='OverlordShinnra' timestamp='1351828483' post='3047514']
Its not luck to run into a huge size, money advantage. And as far as I know we don't have a distinct size/money advantage against the world.[/quote]

No, but you have the advantage that you're one alliance with a forum where you can communicate, and "the world" is not.

I'm not talking about via PM's with the people who just happen to have been declared upon. I'm talking about posting things such as "can someone please spy away this dude's nukes?" or "I'm planning on declaring on this guy [url="http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000285"]http://tournament.cy...on_ID=1000285 [/url] - who can join me?" and everything else that is made far far easier by being in the same alliance and sharing a forum. Yes, that can be done within each individual alliance, but we don't share a forum with the 7ish other alliances TPC also declared on.

I'm not arguing the tactics - they're good tactics. I'm just pointing out that it's not necessarily about size only, but the ability to coordinate - which TPC successfully hindered. This fight would of been different if all the peoople TPC attacked were in one alliance. (thus my above half-joke in a previous post above that we all should merge into one big group)

Edited by White Chocolate
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[quote name='the wompus' timestamp='1351829307' post='3047515']
I'm fairly certain at the beginning of these wars your ANS was several thousand greater than most others. (that would be a distinct size advantage)

I'm not taking anything away from you guys...it takes good nation building, etc to get there.
[/quote]

We'd be crazy to deny that, but we had to do something fast to keep that gap from growing.

[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1351837488' post='3047563']
One post then I'm out lol


At the risk of speaking for NDO, y'know we'd have been OK with that right? Just scrounge up some alliance or three with smaller nations to help you out so we all have targets to counter back against. You get the top tioers, they can get the lower ones, and everybody has fun and war. We'd have been OK with that as long as it's a fair war across the board - which is really what most people don't like when you do these kinds of wars.

Oh yeah yeah I know it's not your fault you all build so well - but still. This is a game, and people play games so they can have fun. I think most of us have more fun when we can fight alongside our friends, expecially in our own alliance. After all that was point a bunch of people made an alliance in the first place.

Wars like this deny them that. Just think about it? You basically made sure that 14 or whatever alliances CANNOT fight their own alliance wars. Can you see that? While a few of their top nations get to fight, the bulk of their nations do NOT. How much fun is that? I'm sure YOU all are having a great time, but spoiling the fun for a bunch of other alliances promotes bitterness.

Its even not really like you declared an alliance war.
You just went alliance-wide rogue.

I'm just sayin', man.
[/quote]

o/ Clash

I have no doubt you guys would have accepted the challenge. We didn't think it would have been a fair war across the board, especially for the lower tiers. If we could have had that, we would have audibled to it.

The other points are legit and I do think about those things when grouping the top tiers of alliances. If we can narrow it to entire alliances we will, if we can't accomplish our goal of efficiently blowing up infra and cash by doing such we won't.

[quote name='Overlord Wes' timestamp='1351885785' post='3047732']
The one time I get what I want I can't enjoy it. [stupid hurricane sandy knocking out power]
[/quote]

I am very lucky that I didn't lose power. Oh well, next time :blush:

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1351895458' post='3047777']
No, but you have the advantage that you're one alliance with a forum where you can communicate, and "the world" is not.

I'm not talking about via PM's with the people who just happen to have been declared upon. I'm talking about posting things such as "can someone please spy away this dude's nukes?" or "I'm planning on declaring on this guy [url="http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000285"]http://tournament.cy...on_ID=1000285 [/url] - who can join me?" and everything else that is made far far easier by being in the same alliance and sharing a forum. Yes, that can be done within each individual alliance, but we don't share a forum with the 7ish other alliances TPC also declared on.

I'm not arguing the tactics - they're good tactics. I'm just pointing out that it's not necessarily about size only, but the ability to coordinate - which TPC successfully hindered. This fight would of been different if all the peoople TPC attacked were in one alliance. (thus my above half-joke in a previous post above that we all should merge into one big group)
[/quote]

There are definitely trade offs. On one hand, you may get a greater fight by hitting a greater number of high NS nations, on the other hand you may get the value of coordination.

Also,

I can declare on that guy if you like :P

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[quote name='OverlordShinnra' timestamp='1351828483' post='3047514']


Its not luck to run into a huge size, money advantage. And as far as I know we don't have a distinct size/money advantage against the
world.
[/quote]

Part of it is luck.

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Somehow the following TPC nations in their “War on Everyone” miraculously avoided any type of anarchy. Strange for an alliance that went to war because they didn’t want to grow out of range of other alliances.

bibliotech
[url="http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000209"]http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000209[/url]

BrownBear
[url="http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000474"]http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000474[/url]

Beerica
[url="http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000246"]http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000246[/url]

And isn’t convenient that they are the 2[sup]nd[/sup], 4[sup]th[/sup], and 12th ranked Nations in the game.

Feel free to declare on their many open slots.

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[quote name='King James XVIII' timestamp='1351897798' post='3047787']There are definitely trade offs. On one hand, you may get a greater fight by hitting a greater number of high NS nations, on the other hand you may get the value of coordination.[/quote]

My point is that WE, the various alliances that TPC declared on in this thread, are not able to use the advantage of a forum to coordinate when fighting back against TPC, who does have a forum to coordinate on - exactly because we're not in the same alliance. So TPC has an advantage as a group that the nations you've declared on as a group do not.

[quote name='King James XVIII' timestamp='1351897798' post='3047787']Also,

I can declare on that guy if you like :P
[/quote]

Go for it, Pork Shrimp was willing to fight their own during the times they felt they were lacking in a challenge. Maybe TPC should try a round of seeing who inside your group is the toughest of the tough.

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We know that TPC are great nation builders, and if left to mass wealth they can shoot to be unreachable. Combine that with their war prowess, and its hard to take them head on later. Its why you were rouged last round.

As someone mentioned. SOME of it, IS luck, in the way that wars can play out through a round, leaving some alliances fairing better than others etc.

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[quote name='Scooby Doo' timestamp='1351900036' post='3047807']
Somehow the following TPC nations in their “War on Everyone” miraculously avoided any type of anarchy. Strange for an alliance that went to war because they didn’t want to grow out of range of other alliances.

bibliotech
[url="http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000209"]http://tournament.cy...tion_ID=1000209[/url]

BrownBear
[url="http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000474"]http://tournament.cy...tion_ID=1000474[/url]

Beerica
[url="http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000246"]http://tournament.cy...tion_ID=1000246[/url]

And isn’t convenient that they are the 2[sup]nd[/sup], 4[sup]th[/sup], and 12th ranked Nations in the game.

Feel free to declare on their many open slots.
[/quote]

Take a look at their wars, they are all facing nuclear nations. Send those guys a PM and tell them to drop a nuke a day ^_^

And yes, please fill those slots. I believe I need my slots filled too :war:

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[quote name='StevieG' timestamp='1351901898' post='3047831']
As someone mentioned. SOME of it, IS luck, in the way that wars can play out through a round, leaving some alliances fairing better than others etc.
[/quote]

Not just for alliances, but individual nations too. Sometimes you hit a guy who has a large nation but no warchest. Sometimes you get declared on by a guy you just can't get the upper hand against.

Edit: Sometimes you hit a guy who has no power or spent too long a time at the bar (you know who you are).

Edited by King James XVIII
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While we're on the subject of actually warring, how about having those flagrunners who declared no/extremely poor wars stop turtling and start fighting? :)

Edit: Well, [url="http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000189]one[/url] is completely turtling, anyway. Others are also choosing saving over fighting.

Edited by Forward
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[quote name='Scooby Doo' timestamp='1351900036' post='3047807']
Somehow the following TPC nations in their “War on Everyone” miraculously avoided any type of anarchy. Strange for an alliance that went to war because they didn’t want to grow out of range of other alliances.

bibliotech
[url="http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000209"]http://tournament.cy...tion_ID=1000209[/url]
[/quote]

I do not usually respond to OWF trolls, but I make an exception here to correct a flagrantly erroneous claim

Not sure which game you're following, but in this one I have 5 wars at the moment and have been in anarchy since getting nuked right after update on the 30th (as soon as the rules allow), which has been extended by follow-up nukes on the 31st and again today (Nov. 2nd). This is clear from the nuclear attacks page ingame.

So, apart from the fact that others put someone into anarchy not the player (i.e., me), such that if I "avoid" anarchy that is my opponents' fault, not mine, the truth is that, contrary to your assertion, I am currently in my [b][i]fourth[/i][/b] day of "any kind of anarchy," and specifically nuke anarchy, and will be for at least 3 more days and probably more since I continue to face opponents with many, many nukes each.

Those are the [b]facts[/b] with respect to me, not what you posted above.

Edited by bibliophile
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P.S. I had a couple of guys who wanted to fight TPC more than who we chose to fight, so they are ghosting TFK and hit a few TPC nations. I forget the nations they were hitting but I know a couple of them did not have wars. I'm not sure if that was planned or not; as a long time leader, I know for a fact sometimes nations don't do what you ask them to do :P

P.S.S. We had a LOT of requests to hit TPC and fill their slots after they attacked. We have enough nuclear nations we could have staggered them for quite a while. I already knew what I wanted to do though, and TPC did leave us a couple alliances to war against who happened to not only be good peeps, but open to new and good ideas. Besides our war is WAY more fun than this one, and not only just because it has bacon. You can tell that just by reading the comparative threads. The alliance-wide rogue flag thing thing tends to tick off a bunch of people. Since we give a flying fat $%&@ about any stupid flag, we'd rather just have fun with war :)

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Troll? Yea, my 58 Posts over 3 years equals trolling. I'm just calling it as it is.

[u][b]Lets look at your tough wars.[/b][/u]
Two of the Nations you declared upon had 1,500 and 1,000 less infra when you DOWNDECLARED upon them.
They have taken, wisely the tactic of turtling, as being that far behind from the beginning, they mine as well have 300 Infra.
As far as their Nukes, I'm sure you guys are in some type of uneasy truce, where they don't nuke you and you don't nuke them.

Aquamarine has 0 nukes and no way to puchase one, having moved into the 5% the day before TPC's bogus war begun. (This likely triggered the true war, as [u][b]3[/b][/u] [u]TPC top nations declared upon him simultaneously[/u]).

So on the 29th King J of Quest, valiantly declared on you and is likely the only Nation dropping Nukes on you. And his 179 Tech must be doing horrible damage to you. In return- The Combined four TPC Superpowers have beat him down from 2500 Infra to 350. But I'm sure that isn't far enough for TPC, who will retaliate against again tomorrow for his slol attempt at someone, anyone trying to knock the TPC bullies down. [b]Kudos to King J for trying.[/b]

Lets not forget about Keyzer Soze from Death before Dishonor who declared on 3 superpowers, got knocked down from 2300 Infra to 800. He looks like he may be turtling or hasn't re-bought. [u]Either way. he is sitting on 19 Nukes. I'm assuming he isn't dropping 3 a day[/u].....

So I'll stand by these Facts:
#2 Nation in the game, cherry picked his targets.
None are able to retaliate in any type of coordinated fashion.
Keyzer Soze, tried to put up a fight somehow being able to declare on bibliotech, though he was 1700 infra[b] BELOW[/b] bibliotech.

So, yes, I think I am following the correct game. In respect to you, none is earned, unless you get points for picking Nations that really never had a chance.

[b]Keep up the Fight King J![/b] We can only hope that someone of equal Infra and Nukes steps up to fill his empty slot and the soon to be empty 2 turtle slots.

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Yes, three of us DOWed Aquamarine. That's because he was the top nation in TFK and was in the top 10 of all of TE. Our group also DOWed the top nations in DB4D and RE (who had no wars on OP/Hellas, you will note). As far as nukes go, we thought Forge's 20 and Lorlax's 20 would be more than sufficient to hold you guys. I only had 10ish when we attacked, and Chess Tyrant had none. If you want to get pissed at somebody, blame Forge for being afk until the last day and Lorlax for having zero warchest.

Amusing trivia note: I tried to peace out with Lorlax on day 1 so that I could do something foolish against another alliance, but he didn't accept. Ironically, I had to pull off split-second spy ops against Aquamarine in order to stave off nuking and indulge said foolishness (Hi SUNspot!). If I wasn't so damn good, I'd be sitting here with no wars and a nice back-collection in another day or two. Consider that when you complain about TPC's nefarious unwillingness to fight.

Also, Aquamarine must still have at least 40M in his warchest. That's enough to rebuild from 0 to 3999, and he's not at 0. I won't be crying for him, and neither should Argentina.

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I don't often post on this forum but I want to show an exchange I have just had with one who hjas been doing an extraordinary amount of whining here.
[quote]
To: OK GuyFrom: Scrappy DooDate: 11/3/2012 12:16:22 AM
Subject: I am Defenseless


Message: I am not able to defend against your attacks.
My Infra only goes to Zero.
[/quote]
[quote]To: Scrappy Doo From: OK Guy Date: 11/3/2012 12:18:29 AM
Subject: RE: I am Defenseless

Message: Not a lot I can do about it. They tell me what to do I do it.
It's just your turn, the same thing happens to us all at sometime or other.
[/quote]
[quote]To: OK Guy From: Scrappy Doo Date: 11/3/2012 12:26:09 AM
Subject: RE: I am Defenseless

Message: Then you are a tool.
[/quote]
[quote]To: Scrappy Doo From: OK Guy Date: 11/3/2012 12:27:45 AM
Subject: RE: I am Defenseless

Message: And you're a whining prick crying over temporary pixels.
I joined an alliance to do what they choose to do. What did you do?[/quote]

[quote]To: OK Guy From: Scrappy Doo Date: 11/3/2012 12:51:40 AM
Subject: RE: I am Defenseless

Message: That must be the weakest reason I've ever seen to join an alliance.
Hence- You are a tool. [/quote]
So there you have it, anyone who joins an alliance and follows orders is a tool. Although that may only apply when the orders involve doing what we are all in this game to do against people not suited for the game.
Perhaps some of you have better reasons for being in alliance than mine. That obviously has to be true or, hence, you are all tools apparently.

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Doesn't change the Fact that TPC pretends round after round to declare war on everyone.

But the truth is, they declare on Nations they conceive to be a threat to the top slots at the end of the round.

Everyone sees it for what it is. Massive down declares.

Do us favor TPC. No one needs you to attack whoever you want to attack. Historically the game has been Alliance Wars. Lets keep it that way.

Or you can go create your own game- Call it "Downdeclaring Rogues".

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[quote name='TigerBaby' timestamp='1351922982' post='3047950']

So there you have it, anyone who joins an alliance and follows orders is a tool. Although that may only apply when the orders involve doing what we are all in this game to do against people not suited for the game.
Perhaps some of you have better reasons for being in alliance than mine. That obviously has to be true or, hence, you are all tools apparently.
[/quote]

A Tool says "Nothing I can do about it, They tell me what to do and I do it".

Wear it with pride. The world needs tools.

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[quote name='Scooby Doo' timestamp='1351918722' post='3047926']
Troll? Yea, my 58 Posts over 3 years equals trolling. I'm just calling it as it is.

[u][b]Lets look at your tough wars.[/b][/u]
Two of the Nations you declared upon had 1,500 and 1,000 less infra when you DOWNDECLARED upon them.
They have taken, wisely the tactic of turtling, as being that far behind from the beginning, they mine as well have 300 Infra.
As far as their Nukes, I'm sure you guys are in some type of uneasy truce, where they don't nuke you and you don't nuke them.

Aquamarine has 0 nukes and no way to puchase one, having moved into the 5% the day before TPC's bogus war begun. (This likely triggered the true war, as [u][b]3[/b][/u] [u]TPC top nations declared upon him simultaneously[/u]).

So on the 29th King J of Quest, valiantly declared on you and is likely the only Nation dropping Nukes on you. And his 179 Tech must be doing horrible damage to you. In return- The Combined four TPC Superpowers have beat him down from 2500 Infra to 350. But I'm sure that isn't far enough for TPC, who will retaliate against again tomorrow for his slol attempt at someone, anyone trying to knock the TPC bullies down. [b]Kudos to King J for trying.[/b]

Lets not forget about Keyzer Soze from Death before Dishonor who declared on 3 superpowers, got knocked down from 2300 Infra to 800. He looks like he may be turtling or hasn't re-bought. [u]Either way. he is sitting on 19 Nukes. I'm assuming he isn't dropping 3 a day[/u].....

So I'll stand by these Facts:
#2 Nation in the game, cherry picked his targets.
None are able to retaliate in any type of coordinated fashion.
Keyzer Soze, tried to put up a fight somehow being able to declare on bibliotech, though he was 1700 infra[b] BELOW[/b] bibliotech.

So, yes, I think I am following the correct game. In respect to you, none is earned, unless you get points for picking Nations that really never had a chance.

[b]Keep up the Fight King J![/b] We can only hope that someone of equal Infra and Nukes steps up to fill his empty slot and the soon to be empty 2 turtle slots.
[/quote]

Perhaps I misused the word “troll.” I meant it as “personal attack.” If that was incorrect OWF parlance my apologies.

Nonetheless, the only point in my post was that you said that I had “avoided . . . any kind of anarchy” when the [b]fact [/b]was that I had been in anarchy for 4 days. You now say “I'm just calling it as it is.” Well you called that wrong, [i]well after the fact[/i], and your lengthy response about other matters does not change that.

Additional facts for the record:

Lorlax, Aquamarine and Tsar Kalashnikov are the ones who nuked me, in that order.

I checked our comparative charts, which show that the last two actually had higher NS on Oct. 28th, the day I declared (my own obsessive records show that I was #4 overall shortly after update that day), so any difference must come from me militarizing shortly before going to war. If post-militarizing strength is a down declare, many more than me are guilty of that, in this round and many previous.

Tsar Kalashnikov was afk until yesterday, at which point he nuked me (and E).

I stopped all attacks (Air, CMs, Nukes, Navy, Spies; GAs were not even possible due to his lack of soldiers) vs. Lorlax as soon as he asked for peace just after update on Oct 31st. What a bully I am!

I welcomed King J’s and Keyzer Soze’s entrance into the fray, hoping for additional good fights. I responded with minimal coordination with other TPCers. King fought for 2 days, Keyzer for one, after which neither rebuilt, sent CMs, etc. Since neither rebought troops, after that GAs were not possible, so I only did Air runs and CMs. Are you suggesting I shouldn’t defend myself against attackers, or let them lurk until they chose to respond in force? Should I have turtled?

As for their non-coordination, I have frequently coordinated with people in other AAs when fighting a common enemy. The fact that my opponents did not does not mean that, in your words, “None are able to retaliate in any type of coordinated fashion.” Most TE players know that nations working together can take down, or at least hold their own, against a bigger opponent if they work together, especially if they have nukes, which these people have in large numbers (as of now: Lorlax: 18; The Forge: 18; King J: 14; Keyzer Soze: 19). If they did not reach out to the others to coordinate, that’s on them, not me.

Edited by bibliophile
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