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Re: Reavers


HeroofTime55
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Seriously, you guys, I mean, you realize at the rate things are going, admin is likely to pull the plug within a year, right? So why even bother with all the stat-hugging?

It's funny, really. The reason the game is dying is because it is boring as all hell. The reason it is boring as all hell is because everyone hugs their stats and their multi-billion dollar warchests (if they have them). You can't even tell me you are even mildly hyped up when you go out to curbstomp the same goddamn parties for the seventh time.

But why hug stats, when stats won't be worth anything when the game is dead? It's not like having once had a $7-billion "warchest" in a game that no longer exists is something you're going to be putting on your resume or anything.

TOP and Umb should be fighting each other. And not a war for a week with no nukes lest you take any real damage. A no-holds-barred death match. And then everyone else should follow suit.

Instead, you signed a treaty that guarantees that nothing interesting will ever happen in this game again. So $%&@ both of you, honestly.

And no, NPO, your little staged girl fight with Sparta does nothing. It probably wouldn't do anything even if you didn't pussify the whole thing and make it so neither of you will actually get hurt. Don't get me wrong, I respect you, NPO. But the reason that only Sparta would agree to a fight is because they know how much they're viewed as cowards, and they think that fake WWE-style !@#$%* slapping each other is somehow going to improve their image (it won't).

tl;dr each and every one of you is !@#$ for putting up with this. It's your fault, directly your fault, the game is dead. You, reading this, right now. It's your fault.

Here's an interesting suggestion: How about TOP/Umb take their treaty, cancel every other treaty they both have, and then declare war on everyone? Honestly, I would love to see what would happen. The top tier vs everyone else. That would be incredible. I would love to see if the majority could whittle down the top, or if the top would crush the rest and finally pull ahead in total victory. That would be [i]interesting[/i] for a change. In fact, get OBR on board with you guys too. Hime Themis can probably take on the whole rest of the game by herself. That would kick so much ass.

So here's the catch-22 for you folks: If you care about your stats so much that you will give everything to protect them... Will you give up your stats to protect your stats? Because that's where we're at. The game is dead otherwise. And your stats won't matter when admin pulls the plug. Will you give up your stats to save the game, or will you give up the game to save your stats, and thereby lose your stats anyway?

And this goes for you too Hime Themis. I know you take your roleplaying seriously. But it's the same equation: CN is a canvas for that roleplay, and you're about to lose your canvas. Will you give up your art to save your art?

Our future as a game, as a community, is in your hands. Because we all know full well that admin is never going to do anything to balance things. Nobody else has control except the top tier. What will it be, then? Are we going to have another curbie and pretend it's interesting? Are we going to have another !@#$%-!@#$%* fight where everyone backs down after a week to preserve numbers on a !@#$@#$ spreadsheet? Or will something of real, actual magnitude occur?

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There is still over 12,000 players in this game. Admin won't pull the plug until it is under 5000. You act like Umbrella and TOP garantee a victory for their side. Protip: it doesn't. Does it com[licate a plot against either party? Sure. However it is still possible given the rise of moralism within the community. Rather or not moralism is a good thing or not is a different subject; all I will so is that it has its time and place.

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[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1350200423' post='3041265']
nothing exciting will ever occur again because nobody is willing to go to war unless the outcome is already decided, and there isnt anyone willing to buck that trend because then they [i]might[/i] get rolled.
[/quote]And that's a !@#$@#$ damn shame. RIP, CN.

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[quote name='kwell' timestamp='1350200882' post='3041268']
There is still over 12,000 players in this game. Admin won't pull the plug until it is under 5000. You act like Umbrella and TOP garantee a victory for their side. Protip: it doesn't. Does it com[licate a plot against either party? Sure. However it is still possible given the rise of moralism within the community. Rather or not moralism is a good thing or not is a different subject; all I will so is that it has its time and place.
[/quote]This isn't about "sides." Alliances like TOP and Umb with "breakaway" stats have already been a problem for years. Their explicit unification only secures the defeat that this game has seen coming for a while now. Nobody can ever oppose them. Ever. As long as they are unified, the game is basically over. And they will be content to remain so until we are below 5000 players, because every day they will wake up and think "I won't get rolled today" instead of "the game is going to die."

It is beyond unhealthy. And human tendency is that we don't fix the problem ourselves - We're motivated by self-interest, not collective interest, and we will only make it worse, by adhering ourselves to alliances like TOP and Umb so that we too might get a fleeting taste of "victory." Which is why diligent game administrators are constantly balancing and tweaking things to make sure their game stays interesting. Unfortunately, we lack such an administrator, hence this desperate (and, sadly, most likely, in vain) cry for something to be done.

Edited by HeroofTime55
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[quote name='kwell' timestamp='1350200882' post='3041268']
There is still over 12,000 players in this game. Admin won't pull the plug until it is under 5000. You act like Umbrella and TOP garantee a victory for their side. Protip: it doesn't. Does it com[licate a plot against either party? Sure. However it is still possible given the rise of moralism within the community. Rather or not moralism is a good thing or not is a different subject; all I will so is that it has its time and place.
[/quote]
yes, actually it does ensure a victory for their side, since you can simply decimate the top tiers of any alliances opposing you(go check SF, Polar, or even Pacifica's stats for example.)

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[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1350201593' post='3041274']
yes, actually it does ensure a victory for their side, since you can simply decimate the top tiers of any alliances opposing you(go check SF, Polar, or even Pacifica's stats for example.)
[/quote]Pacifica is the fun example here. How many years has it been since the last time they were rolled?

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Whatever anyone's stance or position, it's true that a war pitting TOP and Umb against one another would be significantly more interesting than Umb vs the tiny top tiers of previously beaten alliances. Just saying, yo.

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[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1350201773' post='3041275']
Pacifica is the fun example here. How many years has it been since the last time they were rolled?
[/quote]

It'll be two in January.

How dare you win your most recent curbstomp attempt, Pacifica. You should have cowered and let FAN and Fark defeat you so HoT wouldn't have to complain about you.

Why don't you start a war then, HoT? You're in an ideal position.

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I am really not "playing" this game anymore and I am actually keeping my nation around for no real reason, other than "well, maybe I will make some use of it later on". That's because I don't have much time for CN anymore.

That said, for those of you that still actually play, I have my .02: if the leaderships of the most powerful, most top-heavy alliances in the game are stagnating the game (in your opinion) and they have been doing so for years, it's unlikely that they'll suddenly change their habits. You said it, HoT: people are motivated by self-interest, not collective interest. No appeal has much chances to work with them.

Do you have to just give up, then? No, IMHO. Think out of the box: who's actually holding the firepower in their hands?... It's not the leaders, but the members.
Disregards alliances, acquire members. Infiltrate, break, subvert, propagandize, conquer their hearts... Start a revolution. You need to drop the old and worn-out tool of leading an alliance for your ends, and use clandestine and/or cross-party organization(s) to achieve your goals. There are many ways.
Sure, you'd need to take huge risks and success would be hard to obtain, but at least you'd have fun in the process.

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We clandestines should totally turn the neutrals unneutral. Valid points HoT, but can't u see the genius of UMB-TOP? Its like them pushing the "I win" button. If you are on top of the game when it ends doesn't it mean u win? And people called this game unwinnable :smug:

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[quote name='Gopherbashi' timestamp='1350221159' post='3041299']
Umbrella and TOP combined only have 104 of the top 1000 nations in the game.
[/quote]

yeah, this is why i am questioning the whole purpose of this thread. Its rather political than what is best for the whole game.

As proven by Gopher, the OP should back up this thread with stats showing that the two alliances, Umbrella and TOP, accounts for majority of the nations that can dominate the top 1000.

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Instead of whinging about TOP and Umbrella, you should be doing something to bring top-heavy alliances like the GPA, WTF and TDO into war. That would make things more interesting because they are the real stat-builders who sit out and make the game boring.

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[quote name='Gopherbashi' timestamp='1350221159' post='3041299']
Umbrella and TOP combined only have 104 of the top 1000 nations in the game.
[/quote]

TOP/UMB and their direct allies account for 46.6% of the top 100 when you take out the neutrals. This DOES NOT include alliances like TLR/GATO who are in C&G and allies of DH, if you take those numbers into account TOP/UMB+allies make up over 60.3%.

Out of the top 1000 TOP/Umb+allies make up 48% and TOP/Umb+direct allies make up 34.5%

Neutrals make up 42 of the top 100 and 194 of the top 1000. I may have missed some neutral alliances.

Reference: [url=[url="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Auwa4QZwqSWEdDlDbzZ4d1JYazhVVzJjOUtZOXlyNlE#gid=0"]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Auwa4QZwqSWEdDlDbzZ4d1JYazhVVzJjOUtZOXlyNlE#gid=0[/url]]stats[/url].

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[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1350232317' post='3041325']
TOP/UMB and their direct allies account for 46.6% of the top 100 when you take out the neutrals. This DOES NOT include alliances like TLR/GATO who are in C&G and allies of DH, if you take those numbers into account TOP/UMB+allies make up over 60.3%.

Out of the top 1000 TOP/Umb+allies make up 48% and TOP/Umb+direct allies make up 34.5%

Neutrals make up 42 of the top 100 and 194 of the top 1000. I may have missed some neutral alliances.

Reference: [url="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Auwa4QZwqSWEdDlDbzZ4d1JYazhVVzJjOUtZOXlyNlE#gid=0]stats"]https://docs.google....NlE#gid=0]stats[/url][/url].
[/quote]
But is the issue with TOP and Umbrella, or with TOP / Umbrella / their allies / anyone who didn't lose the last war? If we set the criteria that wide, we shouldn't be surprised that there's a large percentage involved.

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[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1350232317' post='3041325']
TOP/UMB and their direct allies account for 46.6% of the top 100 when you take out the neutrals. This DOES NOT include alliances like TLR/GATO who are in C&G and allies of DH, if you take those numbers into account TOP/UMB+allies make up over 60.3%.

Out of the top 1000 TOP/Umb+allies make up 48% and TOP/Umb+direct allies make up 34.5%

Neutrals make up 42 of the top 100 and 194 of the top 1000. I may have missed some neutral alliances.

Reference: [url="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Auwa4QZwqSWEdDlDbzZ4d1JYazhVVzJjOUtZOXlyNlE#gid=0]stats"]https://docs.google....NlE#gid=0]stats[/url][/url].
[/quote]
Hardly unbeatable if those fighting them had an advantage in the upper middle tier..

TOP had a ridiculous upper tier going into Bipolar, but we were still able to beat them with more numbers and by dragging them down and then swarming those nations.

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I used to be in the camp of thinking the players were to blame, but look at what is keeping all of us here. It isn't the game - is the relationships we have with the players. This game can't attract new people because the game itself blows chunks, and that isn't the fault of the players who are forming the meaningful relationships that keep us all here. Instead, Admin is worried about upgrading the forum software, and the mods haven't hardly done anything lately. When I can spend 10 bucks and go play Minecraft or any other game, ever, free with a quick download off the internet, it doesn't make sense to play this antiquated relic of a game that no longer gets updates, is entirely forum based, and has a diminishing user base well past its peak. Go over to the suggestions forum and watch the players constantly submitting new, interesting stuff that would make the game better, that would bring in new players - and watch as none of it is ever implemented. You're wasting your breath yelling at people who probably care as much about this game surviving as you do.

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[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1350232317' post='3041325']
TOP/UMB and their direct allies account for 46.6% of the top 100 when you take out the neutrals. This DOES NOT include alliances like TLR/GATO who are in C&G and allies of DH, if you take those numbers into account TOP/UMB+allies make up over 60.3%.

Out of the top 1000 TOP/Umb+allies make up 48% and TOP/Umb+direct allies make up 34.5%

Neutrals make up 42 of the top 100 and 194 of the top 1000. I may have missed some neutral alliances.

Reference: [url="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Auwa4QZwqSWEdDlDbzZ4d1JYazhVVzJjOUtZOXlyNlE#gid=0]stats"]https://docs.google....NlE#gid=0]stats[/url][/url].
[/quote]

So you're saying a TOP/Umb coalition is the only thing that could deal with the neutral mennace for once and for all?

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[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1350209957' post='3041284']
It'll be two in January.

How dare you win your most recent curbstomp attempt, Pacifica. You should have cowered and let FAN and Fark defeat you so HoT wouldn't have to complain about you.

Why don't you start a war then, HoT? You're in an ideal position.
[/quote]This is clearly what I meant by "how long has it been," and I clearly was not pointing out the fact that they still haven't caught back up to where the "elite" alliances are at despite being 2 years in the clear.


Special Side Note to Everyone: If I had the power to do something, I goddamn would. But I don't. One man cannot fight against the collective apathy of everyone else.

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