An Umbrella Announcement

[Letum]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1349749323' post='3038852']
Why would any leader of any alliance, regardless of the alliance, with any self-respect try to talk with you after you addressed him in public in such a condescending and insulting manner? Your actions don't match your words.
[/quote]

I'm not sure you realized the irony in this statement when you wrote it. It is the condescension and insults (and threats - of which you will see a distinct lack of from our side) with which we were met in our repeated attempts at reconciliation that led to this situation in the first place. You should stand up for your own character, and not suddenly disavow your own self because you see some narrow opening for a moral high ground.

Follow your leader's example; at least he has the fortitude and courage listen to his allies and admit the error of his ways. Being able to back down is a strength, not a weakness.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Letum

[Scorponok]

[quote name='Pingu' timestamp='1349816511' post='3039090']
Even by your standards, IYIyTh, that's impressively incoherent.

Still, if the upshot is that we should all leave Umbrella and NPO to sort this out in their own spaces, then yes.
[/quote]

I'm[i] sure [/i]Umbrella is planning to sort this out in their own space.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Scorponok' timestamp='1349817150' post='3039094']
I'm[i] sure [/i]Umbrella is planning to sort this out in their own space.
[/quote]

It's labeled "file and forget."

Also why is Umbrella bleeding members like crazy?


[quote name='Pingu' timestamp='1349816511' post='3039090']
IYIyTh, that's impressively incoherent.
[/quote]

It's actually pretty coherent. If you're having trouble with it feel free to talk to me about it. Just leave your bias completely behind so we can discuss it [i]in private.[/i]

Edited October 9, 2012 by IYIyTh

[Caliph]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1349817450' post='3039098']
It's labeled "file and forget."

Also why is Umbrella bleeding members like crazy?
[/quote]I wouldn't call it "like crazy", Umbrella never had a huge member count.

[JoshuaR]

We were just a bit bloated, but now we've farted out Umbrellreich and are feeling good about eating junk food again.

Edited October 9, 2012 by JoshuaR

[NationRuler]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1349813527' post='3039069'] while the majority whom probably loathe Pacifica bite their tongue.
[/quote]

Taking that one as a compliment. Not every alliance is capable of holding their tongues.

[Lord Valleo]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1349747609' post='3038839']
I really just want to point out here, and I hope you take no offense. There is a certain amount of hilarity that goes with you implying you are trying to avoid conflict and live in peaceful existence when your emperor has promised a war against an as yet unidentified opponent in two days. You really cannot make the statement you just made with a straight face.
[/quote]Actually Rush the hilarity was not missed by me, in fact after posting and re reading I did laugh openly and the straight face did indeed fail.

My only defense and reason for not editing the post is we are always "trying" and sometimes we are more successful than others

Somewhere someone stated something like "Peace by Peace or Peace by War" obviously for the 30 day countdown the latter has been chosen.

*Edit Spelling

Edited October 9, 2012 by Lord Valleo

[kwell]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1349703481' post='3038569']
In Umbrella's defense former president Johnny Apocalypse was recently very adamant that the government of Umbrella was/is completely meaningless and his actions or lack thereof during his term reinforce this view. But maybe NPO is right and the elected leader of the alliance having threatened them in the past should probably carry more weight and concern them more than a High gov member/advisor. But it's not like everyone in Umbrella dislikes Paciifca. Just Natan, kwell, Master of Puppets...probably quite a few more. But Natan's opinion only accounts for pretty much all of Umbrella's authority. Or none of it. It probably depends on who's saying it and when about what. Or something.

[img]http://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/5258542/il_570xN.47930061.jpg[/img]

At least it's somewhat fitting to have Ardus speak for Umbrella and disagree with something the NPO said.

Things are certainly right in the world again.
[/quote]

Hey, I didn't even make an appearance in this thread. However, now that you drop my name, I'll go ahead and comment.

First and foremost o/ Natan, the almighty dictator

In his campaign, he specifically mentioned that he would not tolerate out of control members. I have no idea why Brehon has his panties in a bunch because Natan is the type of guy who would have kicked out the Umbrella members who aided GOD while NPO was at war with them. Brehon needs to get his facts straight before he starts making character assinations.

This thread is not about NPO's hate for the new leadership of Umbrella; this is about celebrating democracy and congratulating the newly elected officials. If you want to toot your horn, please visit our forums ([url="http://www.umbrella-alliance.com/index.php?act=idx"]http://www.umbrella-alliance.com/index.php?act=idx[/url]) and we can discuss any concerns you may have. Brehon knows that he doesn't visit our forums often. He will also claim that I as well as other Umbrella members don't visit NPO's forums. That is not a defense. I tried talking to him on our boards, and he refused to answer some of the basic questions that I had. Diplomacy doesn't work if both parties are not willing to meet in the middle.

I have claimed that NPO hasn't changed; people are always attached to their past because their past defines their present. This thread is a prime example of how this is true. Brehon is still hung up on the past grudges as seen through his character assination of Natan. How are we expected to work through our differences when the emperor of NPO is bull headed enough to spead lies and deceipt on a public forum? We can't, we won't, and why should we even try? He has his mine made up. What NPO needs is a new face; one that doesn't come in with guns blazing. I suggest that NPO recognize Umbrellas new government and follow our example by electing new leaders.

[Emmanuel Kelly]

Who cares that JA doesn't like NPO much? I'm sure plenty of other people in government hold a grudge too. Umbrella and NPO are not allies, there is no obligation on Umbrella to elect people who like a particular alliance.

[Pingu]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1349817450' post='3039098']
It's actually pretty coherent. If you're having trouble with it feel free to talk to me about it. Just leave your bias completely behind so we can discuss it [i]in private.[/i]
[/quote]

It's OK. After the fourth reading I was able to translate it into English. Sorry for being biased towards clarity.

[tayloj7]

[quote name='Holy Empire of Halin' timestamp='1349713609' post='3038605']
sbsc is a recognized faction by NPO
[/quote]


SBSC is the true ruler of Umbrella, all others are just pretending

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1349817050' post='3039093']
I'm not sure you realized the irony in this statement when you wrote it. It is the condescension and insults (and threats - of which you will see a distinct lack of from our side) with which we were met in our repeated attempts at reconciliation that led to this situation in the first place. You should stand up for your own character, and not suddenly disavow your own self because you see some narrow opening for a moral high ground.

Follow your leader's example; at least he has the fortitude and courage listen to his allies and admit the error of his ways. Being able to back down is a strength, not a weakness.
[/quote]

I am sorry we hurt your feelings before. Condescence and insults were perfectly natural considering we were at war. Right now we're at peace and you claim you feel threatned by us but want peace and yet you act the otherway around. I am not disavowing myself, I am saying that you don't make sense and that you likely have ulterior goals for the show you set up on the OWF.

I am not exactly sure what you're saying about backing down because the only people standing up to this announcement was you and your Emperor. We had nothing to do with anything and frankly we couldn't care less about NPO.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Lord Valleo' timestamp='1349822193' post='3039142']
Actually Rush the hilarity was not missed by me, in fact after posting and re reading I did laugh openly and the straight face did indeed fail.

My only defense and reason for not editing the post is we are always "trying" and sometimes we are more successful than others

Somewhere someone stated something like "Peace by Peace or Peace by War" obviously for the 30 day countdown the latter has been chosen.

*Edit Spelling
[/quote]

People could learn a thing or 2 from you. Im glad you had a laugh too... this thread has been way too serious.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Pingu' timestamp='1349824849' post='3039169']
It's OK. After the fourth reading I was able to translate it into English. Sorry for being biased towards clarity.
[/quote]

What about it isn't in English?

Are you illiterate?

Come on now. I even gave you a +1 for the VaginaSchatt joke :[ Don't go breakin' my heart.

Also, I noted. You still have Cuba though so technically there's still l[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M91iB18tylA"]ittle Adolf.[/url]

I still <3 you JoshuaR.

Edited October 10, 2012 by IYIyTh

[Brehon]

I am happy to let this stop. However you can stop flat out lying the insults and threats came AFTER peace and continued for over a year.

Kwell, I don't know what question I didn't answer. But I will come and see. Yes I stopped coming by regularly after the whole brehoccio, insults and such continued for almost a full year.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Brehon

[white majik]

Well this thread went a different way then I expected. Please Brehon (looks like you already did) and anyone else that has questions, comments, or concerns swing by our forums and we can talk there. No need to clutter up an election thread with all of this.



Also Myth. Your posting in here is bad and you should feel bad. You had me laughing with your posts last month, and then you go and revert back to this. Query me next time you are around

[Letum]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1349829262' post='3039200']
I am sorry we hurt your feelings before. Condescence and insults were perfectly natural considering we were at war. Right now we're at peace and you claim you feel threatned by us but want peace and yet you act the otherway around. I am not disavowing myself, I am saying that you don't make sense and that you likely have ulterior goals for the show you set up on the OWF.
[/quote]

Except we weren't at war. The war was so long ago we don't care about it. We were still being met with insults and threats [b]a year after the war[/b] ended, despite approaching in peace. This is widely awknowledged, and your own leader has admitted the timing of his remarks in this very thread.

You are claiming ulterior goals? Our goals are very simple. An individual threatened us. That individual gained the power to deliver on those threats. We were concerned about that, and made some noise. He has since backed down from his previously aggressive positions and showed a willingness to make some progress. By extention, and as Brehon has highlighted, we can stop making noise and start hoping our diplomatic initiatives are returned.

Assuming that Umbrella follows through with reversing course on their previous policies and actions, then we are going to have that progress. That is a pretty simple goal.

If basic alliance principles such as "We don't want to be attacked" don't make sense to you, then I suggest you re-examine the biases with which you are framing this discussion. If you enter the discussion with the unshakable pre-conception that Umbrella has been a quiet wallflower that has been singled out by an Order that has been very successful in talking things over with all other previous enemies, then of course it isn't going to make any damn sense.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1349872167' post='3039414']
Except we weren't at war. The war was so long ago we don't care about it. We were still being met with insults and threats [b]a year after the war[/b] ended, despite approaching in peace. This is widely awknowledged, and your own leader has admitted the timing of his remarks in this very thread.

You are claiming ulterior goals? Our goals are very simple. An individual threatened us. That individual gained the power to deliver on those threats. We were concerned about that, and made some noise. He has since backed down from his previously aggressive positions and showed a willingness to make some progress. By extention, and as Brehon has highlighted, we can stop making noise and start hoping our diplomatic initiatives are returned.

Assuming that Umbrella follows through with reversing course on their previous policies and actions, then we are going to have that progress. That is a pretty simple goal.

If basic alliance principles such as "We don't want to be attacked" don't make sense to you, then I suggest you re-examine the biases with which you are framing this discussion. If you enter the discussion with the unshakable pre-conception that Umbrella has been a quiet wallflower that has been singled out by an Order that has been very successful in talking things over with all other previous enemies, then of course it isn't going to make any damn sense.
[/quote]

Your insinuations would make sense in a vacuum where no other alliance besides Umbrella and NPO existed. To even consider that just because one individual who has shown dislike for you has achieved a leadership position it will immediatelly put you at risk is a simplistic view that ignores internal and, more importantly, external obstacles to that scenario. Even in your worst nightmares Natan is not an enraged man would throw Umbrella against a wall just for the chance of attacking you when you barely have 20 nations in our range.

I think it's clear what you said doesn't make sense. You were never at risk, there was always going to be peaceful co-existence, you had never a reason to make mud slinging you did.

Your post was very good nonetheless and I acknowledge that. You should do it more often.

[Mr Vicarious]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1349883300' post='3039433']
Your insinuations would make sense in a vacuum where no other alliance besides Umbrella and NPO existed. To even consider that just because one individual who has shown dislike for you has achieved a leadership position it will immediatelly put you at risk is a simplistic view that ignores internal and, more importantly, external obstacles to that scenario. Even in your worst nightmares Natan is not an enraged man would throw Umbrella against a wall just for the chance of attacking you when you barely have 20 nations in our range.

I think it's clear what you said doesn't make sense. You were never at risk, there was always going to be peaceful co-existence, you had never a reason to make mud slinging you did.

Your post was very good nonetheless and I acknowledge that. You should do it more often.
[/quote]

Clearly you learned much from our protectorate if you are now considering the way alliance NS's break down before you consider attacking other alliances.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1349883300' post='3039433']
I think it's clear what you said doesn't make sense. You were never at risk, there was always going to be peaceful co-existence, you had never a reason to make mud slinging you did.
[/quote]

You never make assumptions about the rationality of another leader, especially when that same leader has a history of being the opposite of rational. The history of this world tells us that making such assumptions is folly. And you can do your little game theory thought experiment all you want, but any leader worth his/her salt will also ground their expectations in reality, which is based on a history of actions, not assumptions.

And no one ever said that we think Umbrella's going to throw yourself at us willy nilly.

[Pingu]

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1349886838' post='3039452']


You never make assumptions about the rationality of another leader, especially when that same leader has a history of being the opposite of rational. The history of this world tells us that making such assumptions is folly. And you can do your little game theory thought experiment all you want, but any leader worth his/her salt will also ground their expectations in reality, which is based on a history of actions, not assumptions.
[/quote]

Actually, to base predictions only on history without regard to the present disposition of relevant factors is no closer to 'reality' than any other kind of single-factor hypothesis.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Pingu' timestamp='1349892558' post='3039483']
Actually, to base predictions only on history without regard to the present disposition of relevant factors is no closer to 'reality' than any other kind of single-factor hypothesis.
[/quote]

Who needs predictions based on past history when you have such a vibrant display of the present right here?

[Tick1]

[quote name='tayloj7' timestamp='1349825538' post='3039175']
SBSC is the true ruler of Umbrella, all others are just pretending
[/quote]

FSHODBNEW will destroy you and your tiny cave of birds and their feces!

Edited October 10, 2012 by Tick1

[Pingu]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1349892716' post='3039485']


Who needs predictions based on past history when you have such a vibrant display of the present right here?
[/quote]

I agree in part, but NPO members keep bringing up history. If we go by the present, i.e. the evidence of this thread, the Umbrella leadership is peacefully inclined and NPO is hanging onto past slights, possibly with hostile intent.

Happily, I am willing and able to assess the intentions of both parties from a combination of factors, and believe that neither has a wish for conflict, despite some inept signaling.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Pingu' timestamp='1349892558' post='3039483']
Actually, to base predictions only on history without regard to the present disposition of relevant factors is no closer to 'reality' than any other kind of single-factor hypothesis.
[/quote]
I never said anything about predictions or hypotheses or what have you. I'm talking about expectations, which are completely different concepts. As a leader, you don't predict how x and y happens. You maintain expectations and hopes and you act according to those. You expect the worse and hope for the best. And I was questioning Lusitan's little thought experiment where there was an assumed rationality. And I've shown his thought experiment was moot anyways because nobody from NPO said that we expected Umb to outright smack us with Natan as president.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Jrenster