Brehon Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 We are not just talking about the Negotiation from NPO/DH, these continued to as recently as a month ago. My point is he has [u]continuously[/u] spit on us each time we have offered discussions. If it was just during negotiations it would mean nothing and I wouldn't be posting. Sadly that is not the case. I offered the branch for over a year. He can now at the very least return the favor. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 [quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1349666258' post='3038482'] I will remind you Ardus, we extended that diplomacy and reconcilliation. Natan spat on it and continued to do so even recently. Doomsaying and reproach are not accurate tho I understand why it would be important to try to pass such an erroneous view of the facts. I am merely sharing the attitude and actions of this individual who is now their President. Aka giving an accounting and sharing my general disgust for his said actions. I have to wonder, what was Natan's platform? Anyone care to share? [/quote] You did not share a general disgust for his actions, you shared a general disgust for his person. The former I may entertain. The latter I cannot. Your reaction is something I would expect of some of my general members, not the Emperor of Pacifica. You have expressed pessimism and condemnation. That is my view of the facts. Unless you wish to instead construe your statements as sunshine and lollipops, I fail to see how they are "erroneous." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) You have your view, I have mine. I have said my peace and even in the end gave ole Natan an opening. Like I said, we'll see. You could at least give me the courtesy of noting my pessimism and condemnation are not pulled from thin air as we dance on this stage. Edited October 8, 2012 by Brehon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 About his actions vs person... The only things I have EVER seen from this person are actions of disgust and desire to harm my alliance. So that dog wont hunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrenster Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1349668226' post='3038497'] You did not share a general disgust for his actions, you shared a general disgust for his person. The former I may entertain. The latter I cannot. Your reaction is something I would expect of some of my general members, not the Emperor of Pacifica. You have expressed pessimism and condemnation. That is my view of the facts. Unless you wish to instead construe your statements as sunshine and lollipops, I fail to see how they are "erroneous." [/quote] People are defined by their actions, so I see no reason to make such a judgment here. In fact, one might say it is Brehon's job to make such judgments on other people so as to not be caught unguarded. But the implication being that we are close-minded to this situation is far from the truth. We will definitely be watching his actions from this point forth and see where it takes us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masterof9puppets Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 [quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1349668903' post='3038501'] About his actions vs person... The only things I have EVER seen from this person are actions of disgust and desire to harm my alliance. So that dog wont hunt. [/quote] That's because your alliance is awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 [quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1349668487' post='3038499'] You could at least give me the courtesy of noting my pessimism and condemnation are not pulled from thin air as we dance on this stage. [/quote] [quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Though an initial trepidation as to Natan's bedside manner is understandable...[/quote][/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I already did.[/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beauty Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Nice Banner... oh and o/ Umbrella and congratulations on the new government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Valleo Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 [quote name='Proest' timestamp='1349658912' post='3038458'] <snip> All I would ask is that you as an individual see Umbrella for the varied members we have and not for one person that you dislike, as I'd expect you would want others to see NPO the same way in any sort of similar circumstance. Absent of any claims that it doesn't matter. EDIT: Grammar. [/quote] Sure in a perfect world that would be great. Yes Umbrella is comprised of varied members with a wide range of opinions and feelings. However the one who is now leading your alliance is one of the biggest detractors of the NPO and has threatened our alliance on more than one occassion. So sorry if we didnt show up to this party with flowers and chocolates. To even insinuate Umbrella should be seen for who they are as a whole group sans their leader is just silly and naive. Every alliance is judged largely in part by who their leader is. It can even be said that once you become an alliance leader you give up some of your personal voice since whatever you do or say brings judgement on the alliance as a whole.. [quote name='Pingu' timestamp='1349660725' post='3038466'] It seems odd to me that an Emperor of the NPO would come in here and throw insults around rather than take the prudent course of judging the new team by what they do in office. It's almost as if Pacifica is looking for conflict rather than peaceful coexistence. Congratulations to the newly-elected servants of the Umbrellan people. Edit: typo [/quote] Trying to avoid conflict and live in peaceful existence does not mean one can afford to ignore situations and developments which directly instigate conflict and threaten your peaceful existence. [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1349668226' post='3038497'] You did not share a general disgust for his actions, you shared a general disgust for his person. The former I may entertain. The latter I cannot. Your reaction is something I would expect of some of my general members, not the Emperor of Pacifica. You have expressed pessimism and condemnation. That is my view of the facts. Unless you wish to instead construe your statements as sunshine and lollipops, I fail to see how they are "erroneous." [/quote] Wait, What...MK is disagreeing with the NPO?!? Thank Admin that somethings on Planet Bob as are they should be. [quote name='Masterof9puppets' timestamp1349669350' post='3038503'] That's because your alliance is awful. [/quote] Yes and thank you. Considering the source I view this as a compliment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) In Umbrella's defense former president Johnny Apocalypse was recently very adamant that the government of Umbrella was/is completely meaningless and his actions or lack thereof during his term reinforce this view. But maybe NPO is right and the elected leader of the alliance having threatened them in the past should probably carry more weight and concern them more than a High gov member/advisor. But it's not like everyone in Umbrella dislikes Paciifca. Just Natan, kwell, Master of Puppets...probably quite a few more. But Natan's opinion only accounts for pretty much all of Umbrella's authority. Or none of it. It probably depends on who's saying it and when about what. Or something. [img]http://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/5258542/il_570xN.47930061.jpg[/img] At least it's somewhat fitting to have Ardus speak for Umbrella and disagree with something the NPO said. Things are certainly right in the world again. Edited October 8, 2012 by IYIyTh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badpoet Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Congratz, Umbrella! NPO, don't panic. Or create tension where isn't needed. And if this is the kind of party you dislike don't bother showing up. Crashing here and apologizing for not bringing flowers and chocolates is silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 [quote name='Badpoet' timestamp='1349703578' post='3038570'] Congratz, Umbrella! NPO, don't panic. Or create tension where isn't needed. And if this is the kind of party you dislike don't bother showing up. Crashing here and apologizing for not bringing flowers and chocolates is silly. [/quote] Did you not see their other thread? All they do is is crave attention. (Or is it just brehon....and I shouldn't judge the rest of NPO on that?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yevgeni Luchenkov Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 [quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1349654911' post='3038447'] Realities within TOP have changed quite a bit since your impromptu departure for LSF during the summer (I see your now in NPO though. When did that happen?). But this will become more apparent over time I suppose...as for relations between Umbrella & ourselves? They're doing quite well; thanks for asking. [/quote] I am happy to learn that realities within TOP have changed and that it has led to a reconciliation with Umbrella. I wish you folks the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) The fallen have risen. It's about damn time too. Edited October 8, 2012 by Charles Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusitan Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 [quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1349643107' post='3038320'] Specifically - your alliance is unstable. You have more factions within your membership to have a Cybil complex and absolutely no control. To fix this you elect the one person that has basically !@#$ on anyone who tried to have communication who wasn't part of the rah rah Umbrella crowd but was willing to check you out. On a note closer to home, this same mouth breather loves to threaten my alliance and has done so since DH/NPO from peace negotiations forward. [/quote] Now that's a rather interesting statement to make. I am curious how did you figure out there are factions within Umbrella or that we are unstable? Both conclusions are absolutely wrong in a way I wouldn't expect an alliance leader of your rate to be wrong at... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holy Empire of Halin Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 sbsc is a recognized faction by NPO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Quite curiously, in all this umbrage I have yet to see any claim that Umbrella's new leader has reversed any of his recent positions of hostility and aggression against the Order. Judging people by their actions is indeed prudent. We've had over a year of actions - of vehemently rejecting our olive branches - to judge upon. This is no matter of creating tension - it already exists. If Natan is interested in defusing the tension, retracting previous threats would be a good start. If they were honestly meant however, then don't cower behind fancy words and stand up for your opinions. It is the proliferation of yes-men that has turned this world into the boring abyss that it is, and with being an almost untouchable alliance, Umbrella would have no excuse to follow that path. There is plenty of hope that being given the reigns of power can have a moderating effect on this new leadership. With greater responsibility being instilled into them, and plenty of good allies who can give them sensible directions to follow they can pick the right path. But it's a conscious decision, nobody gets to start from a blank slate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 Reasonable enough to wait and see. The insults here weren't necessary or productive, though, since they suggest minds made up. Also, *reins of power* (equestrian metaphor) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Che Guevara Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 I don't care either way about this argument, but could people please stop underlining things that aren't links? I get really excited and then have my hopes dashed. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorponok Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 [quote name='Letum' timestamp='1349718035' post='3038617'] Quite curiously, in all this umbrage I have yet to see any claim that Umbrella's new leader has reversed any of his recent positions of hostility and aggression against the Order. [/quote] I was waiting to the response to these accusations, from Umbrella. Guess we will wait and see. Nevertheless, electing an alliance leader that hates an alliance you want to make a fresh start with is not the way to go about things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 While I don't know the particulars of his statements, I would say that it's quite a leap to assume he plans to act on statements made before he was in government. He may even continue to hold the same opinions, but the realities of holding power often force people to act in a more reserved manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkphysics Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1349731241' post='3038711'] While I don't know the particulars of his statements, I would say that it's quite a leap to assume he plans to act on statements made before he was in government. He may even continue to hold the same opinions, but the realities of holding power often force people to act in a more reserved manner. [/quote] Ah, so even though they may of implied a strong hate towards the NPO, and now that they are in the driver's seat, it really means nothing because they are just a figure head pretty much and cannot make any moves without a lot of support from the people who elected them and knew about their desires and opinions? Makes sense to me. NPO why u so mad broah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrash Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 [quote name='Scorponok' timestamp='1349729675' post='3038693'] Nevertheless, electing an alliance leader that hates an alliance you want to make a fresh start with is not the way to go about things. [/quote] Democracy at it's best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted October 8, 2012 Report Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) [quote name='bkphysics' timestamp='1349732894' post='3038722'] Ah, so even though they may of implied a strong hate towards the NPO, and now that they are in the driver's seat, it really means nothing because they are just a figure head pretty much and cannot make any moves without a lot of support from the people who elected them and knew about their desires and opinions? Makes sense to me. NPO why u so mad broah? [/quote] When you try to place yourself so far above others, you only have further to fall when you trip yourself up. Because no, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that when you are just a general member, you are free to voice your opinions without it coming back to the alliance as a whole. A leader has to be much more calculating about what they say, even more so about what they do. My point is that while Natan may have a less than favourable opinion of the NPO, to instantly expect that to become part of his policy ignores the realities he faces as leader. A lot more goes into planning a war than 'I don't like them, let's attack', he has to consider his alliance's position, and that of his allies, etc etc. As an example, when I was high gov in NSO I certainly didn't try to act on all the things I had said before that point, or even the opinions I held at that point, because the alliance's wellbeing was at stake if I did. I assume the same will apply with Natan. Edited October 8, 2012 by WorldConqueror Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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