Starfox101 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Nemhauser' timestamp='1348007736' post='3031571'] So now INT can go back to being a respectable alliance. Good job, guys. [/quote] By bailing on allies who were literally steamrolled into the ground? I come from a different time, but that's not respectable. Whether or not they deserved it, well, that's a different argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyas Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Larger alliances than INT ignored the same treaty obligations. I look forward to seeing you cancel on them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemhauser Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1348018067' post='3031627'] By bailing on allies who were literally steamrolled into the ground? I come from a different time, but that's not respectable. Whether or not they deserved it, well, that's a different argument. [/quote] I can understand very well why INT didn't helped LSF. It's like this little kid being friends with a big kid and uses that friendship to pick a fight with another big kid, hoping his friend will come to his aid. In this case it didn't work and the little kid got stomped and lost his friend in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabcat Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Reyas' timestamp='1348019257' post='3031632'] Larger alliances than INT ignored the same treaty obligations. I look forward to seeing you cancel on them as well. [/quote] You are quite wrong and we have no plans to cancel any other treaties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyas Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1348008677' post='3031580'] I stand by my allies regardless. I have burned my nation time and again, not just for the alliance I was in but for my allies. Ask TIO about how pissed I was we did not go in for MCXA. Yes, what LSF did was quite stupid but LSF were your allies and you let them burn. You let an alliance basically raze your ally to the ground without ever really trying to help them out. [/quote] So basically, you'd support MCXA in a pre-empt of another alliance when they ignored their own tie to LSF? Stunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Stupid Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Nemhauser' timestamp='1348019322' post='3031633'] I can understand very well why INT didn't helped LSF. It's like this little kid being friends with a big kid and uses that friendship to pick a fight with another big kid, hoping his friend will come to his aid. In this case it didn't work and the little kid got stomped and lost his friend in the process. [/quote] Or that other big kid goes to MK to cause a distraction so they don't get rolled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyas Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1348019434' post='3031636'] You are quite wrong and we have no plans to cancel any other treaties. [/quote] So MCXA, NATO, UCR, The Resistance, NsO, Tetris and SWF were all willing to go to war for you only on the condition that INT joined? I'm genuinely curious to find out if any of them actually offered support and why you didn't accept it? they're all well tied to other alliances/blocs. Edited September 19, 2012 by Reyas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemhauser Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Joe Stupid' timestamp='1348019675' post='3031639'] Or that other big kid goes to MK to cause a distraction so they don't get rolled. [/quote] Yeah, because that's exactly what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabcat Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Reyas' timestamp='1348019781' post='3031640'] So MCXA, NATO, UCR, The Resistance, NsO, Tetris and SWF were all willing to go to war for you only on the condition that INT joined? How does that make them any better? [/quote] All but one of those alliances offered to enter in our defence within 96 hours of the beginning of the war without the conditions you seem to believe they attached. Only one alliance had an obligation to support us and they refused to do so. We burnt. There would have been no point in allowing allies who were largely unaware of the way the situation developed to burn with us. They had after all not been fully informed of the situation as it developed or offered guarantees of support before the fact. Only one cancellation is appropriate and we have made it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Bromeini Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Joe Stupid' timestamp='1348019675' post='3031639'] Or that other big kid goes to MK to cause a distraction so they don't get rolled. [/quote] Yes clearly we pulled the strings of our MK marionette to avoid having to go to war for the LSF.. You truly live up to your name, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Stupid Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Ayatollah Bromeini' timestamp='1348020632' post='3031646'] Yes clearly we pulled the strings of our MK marionette to avoid having to go to war for the LSF.. You truly live up to your name, sir. [/quote] Yes maybe I do, but I defend my allies no matter what, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Bromeini Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Joe Stupid' timestamp='1348020737' post='3031647'] Yes maybe I do, but I defend my allies no matter what, sir. [/quote] I think you have to worry about defending your own members before you start worrying about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Ayatollah Bromeini' timestamp='1348021192' post='3031649'] I think you have to worry about defending your own members before you start worrying about that. [/quote] You can't really scare anyone. You're afraid of war, son. I don't think you're picking a fight with the right guy here, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattski133 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Nemhauser' timestamp='1348019322' post='3031633'] I can understand very well why INT didn't helped LSF. It's like this little kid being friends with a big kid and uses that friendship to pick a fight with another big kid, hoping his friend will come to his aid. In this case it didn't work and the little kid got stomped and lost his friend in the process. [/quote] the presence of a formal treaty between the two, in my eyes, shouldn't involve "hoping", in my opinion. i think your comment here reflects more than anything the value of a mutual defense treaty today. it's well known amongst anyone who's led an alliance during a recent war that your orders are passed down to you even if you are the sovereign leader of hundreds of nations. what you are bound to do and what you are allowed to do are two different things, usually. i would be very hesitant to sign a treaty with an alliance that is deeply invested in a large power bloc as you, like LSF, may find yourself very alone if you rely too heavily on it. or "hoping" as it was put. if you're "hoping" a treaty will protect you, the treaty is clearly worthless to you, but not to the other party. on a moral ground, a larger alliance that is anchored in bloc politics probably shouldn't have treaties with radical little alliances that they have no intention of protecting if they don't stand to benefit from it anyway. it seems they are kept around in case they provide an opportunity for the larger alliance to pursue. i can personally reflect back on some injustices done to smaller alliances i have been in that were ignored for the greater benefit of a bloc or even grouping of blocs though we were in the right. and i can also reflect on times when a smaller alliance was used to champion a great cause though they were totally in the wrong (ordo verde...). i wonder if INT would have kept this document around if LSF didn't bother to cancel. i didn't intend to condemn INT or LSF's behavior, just to comment on a bummer of a situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) Congrats International! As for Int not defending LSF, LSF deliberately got themselves into this fight and then tried to manipulate their treaty to try to force Int to support their aggressive actions. I'd be pretty pissed at LSF if I was Int. Good riddance at the treaty. Edited September 19, 2012 by Azaghul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Bromeini Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1348021316' post='3031650'] You can't really scare anyone. You're afraid of war, son. I don't think you're picking a fight with the right guy here, either. [/quote] I wasn't talking about your little jury rigged \m/ zombie cesspool. He knows exactly what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Ayatollah Bromeini' timestamp='1348021621' post='3031658'] I wasn't talking about your little jury rigged \m/ zombie cesspool. He knows exactly what I mean. [/quote] It was quite clear you weren't talking about us. However, NSO are our allies. We honor treaties. Need a lesson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Bromeini Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1348021933' post='3031660'] It was quite clear you weren't talking about us. However, NSO are our allies. We honor treaties. Need a lesson? [/quote] Wasn't talking about NSO either. Guess you hadn't returned yet when the RoK drama going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1348021618' post='3031657'] Congrats International! As for Int not defending LSF, LSF deliberately got themselves into this fight and then tried to manipulate their treaty to try to force Int to support their aggressive actions. I'd be pretty pissed at LSF if I was Int. Good riddance at the treaty. [/quote] You and the rest in MK are only sore because we almost caused you to be rolled a war too early. No worries, though, you're up to bat next! Good luck! Try not to be too dirty and manipulative in the meantime, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Ayatollah Bromeini' timestamp='1348022100' post='3031661'] Wasn't talking about NSO either. Guess you hadn't returned yet when the RoK drama going on. [/quote] Well, that's just too bad. I was not around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Stupid Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Ayatollah Bromeini' timestamp='1348022100' post='3031661'] Wasn't talking about NSO either. Guess you hadn't returned yet when the RoK drama going on. [/quote] Since you're bringing up the past We hit for Polar when it wasn't convenient and the odds were against us, what was your excuse again? Let me guess, you will resort to your typical ad-hominem attacks making up the last 5-6 of your posts. Continue to run, it seems to suit you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subcomandante VL Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Congrats to both parties. Sad as all this is, having been involved in 90% of the drama over the last 2-3 years between you two I feel no shame in saying both are better off in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1348022207' post='3031663'] You and the rest in MK are only sore because we almost caused you to be rolled a war too early. No worries, though, you're up to bat next! Good luck! Try not to be too dirty and manipulative in the meantime, eh? [/quote] Sore implies anger or frustration, of which we have neither. We simply do not respect LSF, nor have we ever. Predictions of our demise come and go with the sun and moon, yet we endure. But go ahead and keep pitching them if it keeps you interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1348023690' post='3031674'] Sore implies anger or frustration, of which we have neither. We simply do not respect LSF, nor have we ever. Predictions of our demise come and go with the sun and moon, yet we endure. But go ahead and keep pitching them if it keeps you interested. [/quote] And here I was wishing MK luck in your inevitable, impending curbstomping. Clearly my good-will was misguided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1348021618' post='3031657'] Congrats International! As for Int not defending LSF, LSF deliberately got themselves into this fight and then tried to manipulate their treaty to try to force Int to support their aggressive actions. I'd be pretty pissed at LSF if I was Int. Good riddance at the treaty. [/quote] How many alliances MK manipulated last war to support their aggressive actions? Should all of them be pretty pissed at MK too? Edited September 19, 2012 by D34th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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