supercheese Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 [quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1346355937' post='3026701'] "if i dont get my way im getting a waiver" is exactly what you did to me in the Gallifrey-UC war...lol...that is all... [/quote] that proves the point that its useless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Perhaps, but at the same time by restricting the players in a war, things get less chaotic. Furthermore, the thing about "If I don't get my way I'll get a waiver" is based on the idea that one applying for the wavier is being reasonable. If the GMs do their actual job and not hinder discussions, then they would see which side is being unreasonable and act accordingly. Everything that the anti-preplanning crowd base their arguments on depends on everyone, including the GMs, being unreasonable. As long as the GMs are relatively unbiased and competent, they should be able to achieve an agreement between the two sides, or if necessary, grant a waiver to the aggressor if that aggressor is being reasonable with his demands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShammySocialist Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 [quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1346356460' post='3026707']Everything that the anti-preplanning crowd base their arguments on depends on everyone, including the GMs, being unreasonable. As long as the GMs are relatively unbiased and competent, they should be able to achieve an agreement between the two sides, or if necessary, grant a waiver to the aggressor if that aggressor is being reasonable with his demands. [/quote] Quite honestly, its a little more complex than just people being "unreasonable", its the use of the preplanning rule as a sort of shield against attack, something it was never intended for, or should be used as. To make a rather blunt analogy, preplanning in CNRP right now, between your standard players, is almost like trying to get the UN Security Council to get anything of substance through over the Crisis in Syria. There's a lot of red tape, and there are a lot of special interests, and there are people stalling it out. It's a rather underhanded OOC tactic that I've come to overly loathe, in all honesty. I was for preplanning in the beginning because I thought it would do some good, and it has, but to a [i]certain extent[/i], I am [i]still[/i] for trying to get a pre-war dialogue established between players, but I am for doing away with having to get waivers and having wars hinge on preplanning talks. In all honesty, GMs should not have to arbitrate preplanning talks, we should all be mature enough to handle these issues on our own. Nobody arbitrated any of my preplanning talks in the past, or a more recent one, I don't see why they should do so now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynneth Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 Entire CNRP is babies. I should henceforth be the only one with the power to allow wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoot Zoot Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 [quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1346355937' post='3026701'] "if i dont get my way im getting a waiver" is exactly what you did to me in the Gallifrey-UC war...lol...that is all... [/quote] Thats because you were being a fool. [quote] And what was that sensible compromise? Using an out-of-date past ruling that has no place in modern CNRP? Constantly stacking the decks towards your future ally? Sprouting such idiotic statements that everyone was facepalming? The fact is I moved to get you out of the discussions because you were such a blockhead. The fact you say I'm transparent when you've moved in the direction I wanted you to move shows just how blind you are. Sorry Zoot, but it seems like you're still just putty in my hands as always.[/quote] Yes I allowed you to manipulate me so I would move towards what you were saying, even though you lost your rag and kicked me from the discussions out of frustration. I $%&@ed off the arbitration because everyone was being retarded to retarded levels as per usual when your involved. This thread prooves it. The moment YOU post, the entire thing goes to !@#$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangeline Anovilis Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 [quote name='TheShammySocialist' timestamp='1346358473' post='3026714'] In all honesty, GMs should not have to arbitrate preplanning talks, we should all be mature enough to handle these issues on our own. Nobody arbitrated any of my preplanning talks in the past, or a more recent one, I don't see why they should do so now? [/quote] Seconded. Saves the GMs work and if one side still wants to apply for a waiver, they can send the GMs the logs. I don't know why there are arbitrators anyway. Not like it ever led to more than the arbitrating GM afterwards complaining about some headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 No Zoot, it's always someone else starting things. Thank you very much for trying to shift the blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoot Zoot Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 [quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1346358996' post='3026719'] No Zoot, it's always someone else starting things. Thank you very much for trying to shift the blame. [/quote] You ADMITTED you did not read the thread but skipped right to the end to lay down some abuse towarrds me. Yes, as soon as YOU posted, the thread went to !@#$. Dont try to throw it off and onto me because to remain inkeeping with CNRP's playground tactics, "You started it". So $%&@ you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 You could argue with my assessment that the basis of the anti-preplan people is flawed in that it views everyone as unreasonable and thus we should live in anarchy. You choose not to after I wrote that assessment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 [quote name='Lynneth' timestamp='1346358753' post='3026716'] Entire CNRP is babies. I should henceforth be the only one with the power to allow wars. [/quote]Hear hear! [quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1346359177' post='3026720'] You ADMITTED you did not read the thread but skipped right to the end to lay down some abuse towarrds me. Yes, as soon as YOU posted, the thread went to !@#$. Dont try to throw it off and onto me because to remain inkeeping with CNRP's playground tactics, "You started it". So $%&@ you. [/quote] [quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1346359560' post='3026722'] You could argue with my assessment that the basis of the anti-preplan people is flawed in that it views everyone as unreasonable and thus we should live in anarchy. You choose not to after I wrote that assessment. [/quote]It takes two to argue...most of the time anyway. Both of you need to take a step back and stop arguing over this, and focus on the thread's actual issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac MatthewII Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 [quote name='Subtleknifewielder' timestamp='1346360832' post='3026729'] It takes two to argue...most of the time anyway. Both of you need to take a step back and stop arguing over this,[b] and focus on the thread's actual issue.[/b] [/quote] Yeah, end Kankous rein as evil dictator of the Americas, and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShammySocialist Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 [quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1346361907' post='3026731'] Yeah, end Kankous rein as evil dictator of the Americas, and so on. [/quote] The Dark Side has clouded your vision, I am clearly the Evil Emperor of the Americas. But, back on topic... Death to preplanning! Discuss!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Enema Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Preplanning hasn't really lived up to the expectations I had for it. No point in keeping a piss weak version of it around that in the end just ends up being a mechanism that requires two messages before demanding a waiver. Also, there have been problems with people attempting to use the preplanning period as a means of evacuating key members of government and so on, which is just another headache to be dealt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 If you had dictatorial powers concerning reforming preplanning (but not abolishing), how would you strengthen preplanning, TBM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Enema Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ideally, I'd make war fought by mutual consent with an agreed upon outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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