jerdge Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1340812669' post='2998395']Since you said not one of the incidents is complete invention, I will give you an example. *<lebubu> using polar to destroy top only to drop them and engineer wars that gets them rolled regularly for no reason You see, in totality, that is a complete invention, because it 100% relies on the notion that somehow MK was behind the Lennox-Dajobo conversations that led to VE rolling Polar. It also relies on an assumption that TOP in some way shape or form, needed "convinced" by MK to take their retirbution on Polar. This is complete and utter nonsense.[/quote] Those wars happened, with people in those sides. Polar helped the MK by "switching side", and they were later "rolled" in a war which is not unimaginable the MK gave its OK to. I don't see where convincing TOP was mentioned. Biased (satiric?) wording, and things very stretched? Yes. Complete inventions? No. I don't say things went "like that", just that those referenced were "real" events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 [quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1340825719' post='2998571'] Those wars happened, with people in those sides. Polar helped the MK by "switching side", and they were later "rolled" in a war which is not unimaginable the MK gave its OK to. I don't see where convincing TOP was mentioned. Biased (satiric?) wording, and things very stretched? Yes. Complete inventions? No. I don't say things went "like that", just that those referenced were "real" events. [/quote] It is a mammoth stretch to say "those wars happened" and use it as an indictment that MK pulled the strings. Remember the point of the statement was the Polar beatdowns, As such, that statement in and of itself, and the message it is trying to convey, is a complete invention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1340820766' post='2998489'] And it certainly could not be that others have a problem of attributing things that had nothing to do with them as somehow 'all their fault". [/quote] Certainly a possibility as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1340826052' post='2998574'] It is a mammoth stretch to say "those wars happened" and use it as an indictment that MK pulled the strings. Remember the point of the statement was the Polar beatdowns, As such, that statement in and of itself, and the message it is trying to convey, is a complete invention. [/quote] MK did actually convince Polar to switch sides, as evidenced by the major amount of name calling/trolling in the embassy thread. Then MK dropped the Polar treaty. MK then signed with TOP, paving the way for the TOP-Polar war. TOP wouldn't have felt comfortable going against SF/XX/NpO without at least tacit MK agreement. All that being said, I still think the logs are fake because MK isn't stupid enough to A) Outline all their retarded actions in one convenient location and B) Allow access to said location to someone who would actually leak it. But besides the fact they are fake, they are fairly accurate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1340826052' post='2998574']It is a mammoth stretch to say "those wars happened" and use it as an indictment that MK pulled the strings. Remember the point of the statement was the Polar beatdowns, As such, that statement in and of itself, and the message it is trying to convey, is a complete invention.[/quote] Incidentally, I disagree. IMO the point of the statement is the part that the MK could/would have had in determining the referenced events. It's an [i]interpretation[/i], and as such a matter of opinions (unless one knows what happened because s/he was always there, which isn't my case, and which isn't the case of most people frequenting these forums). Besides, I don't know anymore the reason we're having this discussion for, as my only point was that the referenced events had (more or less) actually happened, i.e. that document isn't about facts that didn't happen or the public knows nothing of, but it's about "known" issues. In this case, that Polar was in the same side of the MK when TOP was defeated, and that Polar was later defeated by a side to which the MK and TOP both belonged. If at this point you don't anymore know the reason we're discussing it for either, well, we might call it a day... [size="1"][[b]Edit:[/b] missing comma.][/size] Edited June 27, 2012 by jerdge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flak attack Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 [quote name='berbers' timestamp='1340832972' post='2998702'] Then MK dropped the Polar treaty. [/quote] The Polar treaty was killed by actions that happened, such as the placement of Random as emperor, after the war, not because of the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) [quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1340839748' post='2998822'] The Polar treaty was killed by actions that happened, such as the placement of Random as emperor, after the war, not because of the war. [/quote] Well they hung an entire coalition out to dry and permanently damaged alot of relationships for that treaty, the least you could have done is held on to it a bit longer. Edit: And there's a lesson for people here, Polar literally gave everything for MK and then got dropped because they didn't agree with the choice of emperor, not even anything he did. Edited June 27, 2012 by berbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingzog Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 [quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1340797981' post='2998279'] It might be a fake but the incidents are all real [/quote] And thus 'The Protocols of the Elders of MK' were born. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 [quote name='kingzog' timestamp='1340840574' post='2998836']And thus 'The Protocols of the Elders of MK' were born.[/quote] Please get out of my mind, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) [quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1340781379' post='2998159'] Back to the OP, what does it tell us, if anything, on the MK, their reputation, their character or their politics? I already told my opinion, what about your one, people? (Hint: SCY is not MK.) [/quote] From a complete OOC perspective, what I see from MK is the same thing I see in successful organizations since the beginning of man: That a combination of charm, adaption to the times, manipulation of public perception, several stepped strategies, setting enemies against one another, aggression tempered with caution, ruthlessness, treachery, and a large and devoted memberbase is required to secure success from the clutches of a chaotic and dangerous world. It's the same characteristics you will see in varying qualities in all the major alliances, be it NPO, GOD, IRON, TOP, ect., and prominent blocs. It's the way of the world. As much as we are built to cooperate, we are as equally built to compete. Those who do both better than others dominate, and those who can't live in varying degrees of servitude. If you're going to hate: Don't hate the player, hate the game. Edited June 27, 2012 by Kzoppistan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) [quote name='kingzog' timestamp='1340840574' post='2998836'] And thus 'The Protocols of the Elders of MK' were born. [/quote] Lol clever. I'm sure someone will be along to make an NoR joke now though. Edited June 28, 2012 by Omniscient1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAAAAAAAAAGGGG Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 [quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1340841406' post='2998840'] From a complete OOC perspective, what I see from MK is the same thing I see in successful organizations since the beginning of man: That a combination of charm, adaption to the times, manipulation of public perception, several stepped strategies, setting enemies against one another, aggression tempered with caution, ruthlessness, treachery, and a large and devoted memberbase is required to secure success from the clutches of a chaotic and dangerous world. [/quote] MK is literally Apple. Archon is literally Steve Jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 [quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1340843271' post='2998860'] MK is literally Apple. Archon is literally Steve Jobs. [/quote] So when Steve Jobs died, he actually quit to go work for Microsoft? I'd say that makes sense, but Windows 8 looks like it's going to be a flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 [quote name='kingzog' timestamp='1340840574' post='2998836'] And thus 'The Protocols of the Elders of MK' were born. [/quote] The word Learned seems to be missing. But its ok. MK are ADHD kiddies, and not very learned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 [quote name='berbers' timestamp='1340840051' post='2998824'] Well they hung an entire coalition out to dry and permanently damaged alot of relationships for that treaty, the least you could have done is held on to it a bit longer. Edit: And there's a lesson for people here, Polar literally gave everything for MK and then got dropped because they didn't agree with the choice of emperor, not even anything he did. [/quote] His last words to the Kingdom were "$%&@ MK". That is not conducive to an alliance. It's not [i]casus belli[/i], but I don't know how you maintain an alliance with an authoritarian alliance with a leader that is expressly hostile. It'd be like if Brehon told NATO to shove it up their... on second thought I'm pretty sure Brehon does that frequently. Please give me a moment to reconsider another alternative example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1340851485' post='2998949'] His last words to the Kingdom were "$%&@ MK". That is not conducive to an alliance. It's not [i]casus belli[/i], but I don't know how you maintain an alliance with an authoritarian alliance with a leader that is expressly hostile. It'd be like if Brehon told NATO to shove it up their... on second thought I'm pretty sure Brehon does that frequently. Please give me a moment to reconsider another alternative example. [/quote] yeah the difference is that neither of us really needed the other to stay relevant and so there was no motivation to work through it/deal with !@#$ being thrown at us. but nato p much has no function in this game outside of war, and so brehon can p much do whatever he wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercoolyellow Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1340851485' post='2998949'] His last words to the Kingdom were "$%&@ MK". That is not conducive to an alliance. It's not [i]casus belli[/i], but I don't know how you maintain an alliance with an authoritarian alliance with a leader that is expressly hostile. It'd be like if Brehon told NATO to shove it up their... on second thought I'm pretty sure Brehon does that frequently. Please give me a moment to reconsider another alternative example. [/quote] There was a lot of abuse going the opposite direction before he said that though. Your members were hardly saints in that thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flak attack Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 [quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1340853595' post='2998980'] There was a lot of abuse going the opposite direction before he said that though. Your members were hardly saints in that thread. [/quote] By no means were we, but we had cooled things down and were on decent relations with NpO at that point. The appointment of Random, though, pretty much sent all of that down the drain. Random made it quite obvious he wanted us rolled, refused to visit our forum and, IIRC, wasn't talking to our gov. That pretty much sinks any chance of maintaining a treaty level relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Mockingbird Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 R.I.P. "the !@#$ we've done is amazing" thread 1.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepy Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 I am disappoint with this topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krack Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 [quote name='Tequila Mockingbird' timestamp='1340860164' post='2999124'] R.I.P. "the !@#$ we've done is amazing" thread 1.0 [/quote] Shhhhh ... you're busy pretending it's fictional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsoxbronco1 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 [quote name='Krack' timestamp='1340861247' post='2999146'] Shhhhh ... you're busy pretending it's fictional. [/quote] Someday the world will stop responding to MK posts literally. At least that's what I want to believe. I don't really believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 The world will stop responding to MK posts literally when they stop responding to any posts at all and the last stubborn nerds decide its time to hang up their hats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1340861990' post='2999165'] The world will stop responding to MK posts literally when they stop responding to any posts at all and the last stubborn nerds decide its time to hang up their hats. [/quote] We don't need to wait that long, everyone should just put all of MK in their ignore list. It's like being on vacation in Cabo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Mockingbird Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 There would be no fun in that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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