Jump to content

Official IRON Announcement


Recommended Posts

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1340219593' post='2990386']
Fair enough, I didn't check the timestamp :P

I am kinda confused how you can think it wasn't a joke, I mean those logs pretty clearly state he was going to let them know...
[/quote]
And yet, he didn't. And this isn't the first time LSF members have tried to incite wars via spying and impersonation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 487
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Now, let's get a few facts straight.

Yes, Opti acted badly. Yes, he should have apologized. He was keen on doing so (I could give logs but who cares, at this point). However, IRON wanted all of LSF to apologize for the actions of a less-than-24-hours member. Fine, we gave them an apology. Was it half-assed? Sure, we took a jab at them when we did it. If war is the new standard for what the enemy perceives to be half-assed apologies, I certainly expect that nobody will be giving any in the future.

You want us to be sorry for what? A guy got high and had a bit of fun on IRC. Several alliances have seen their members do it in the past, some of them being actually in favor of this new war. I hope that you guys stay on top for a while for your members are keen on doing such shenanigans as well. The LSF, as a whole, wasn't sorry. We felt it was business between Opti and IRON. We still presented an apology but decided to include a jab in it.

Now, if that is enough to justify war, then so be it.

However, the rest is bollocks. Our admin didn't unmask him in less than 24 hours? That's possible. Opti still left us, left our AA, left our private channel and applied to another AA. I didn't know our internal administration was of such importance to IRON that we had a 24 hours timetable to actually unmask the guy (as a sidenote, that's purely OOC because IC, he clearly left us).

As for the tech, we tried querying you today. To no avail. Again, I must say, I'm surprised at the short timetable, given that you didn't give us the links (who was supposed to receive the tech was never clear, you first joked that it should be forwarded to NoR). Didn't know that it was a "24 hours or bust" thing, excuse us for only sending you a query today.


Now, on to those who cheer like IRON is going to stomp us: we're already fully engaged. When we say this war means nothing to us is precisely because we already have all of our slots filled by Nordreich. IRON wants in simply to draw our allies out: fine. It won't happen. And no ammount of ridiculous pressure will make it happen. We're the Left. This isn't the first time we have to fight outnumbered and for long a period of time.

As a sidenote, IRON, I hope that you'll do better than last war and find a way not to lose 26% of your membership.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1340220163' post='2990399']
Now, let's get a few facts straight.

Yes, Opti acted badly. Yes, he should have apologized. He was keen on doing so (I could give logs but who cares, at this point). However, IRON wanted all of LSF to apologize for the actions of a less-than-24-hours member. Fine, we gave them an apology. Was it half-assed? Sure, we took a jab at them when we did it. If war is the new standard for what the enemy perceives to be half-assed apologies, I certainly expect that nobody will be giving any in the future.

You want us to be sorry for what? A guy got high and had a bit of fun on IRC. Several alliances have seen their members do it in the past, some of them being actually in favor of this new war. I hope that you guys stay on top for a while for your members are keen on doing such shenanigans as well. The LSF, as a whole, wasn't sorry. We felt it was business between Opti and IRON. We still presented an apology but decided to include a jab in it.

Now, if that is enough to justify war, then so be it.

However, the rest is bollocks. Our admin didn't unmask him in less than 24 hours? That's possible. Opti still left us, left our AA, left our private channel and applied to another AA. I didn't know our internal administration was of such importance to IRON that we had a 24 hours timetable to actually unmask the guy (as a sidenote, that's purely OOC because IC, he clearly left us).

As for the tech, we tried querying you today. To no avail. Again, I must say, I'm surprised at the short timetable, given that you didn't give us the links (who was supposed to receive the tech was never clear, you first joked that it should be forwarded to NoR). Didn't know that it was a "24 hours or bust" thing, excuse us for only sending you a query today.


Now, on to those who cheer like IRON is going to stomp us: we're already fully engaged. When we say this war means nothing to us is precisely because we already have all of our slots filled by Nordreich. IRON wants in simply to draw our allies out: fine. It won't happen. And no ammount of ridiculous pressure will make it happen. We're the Left. This isn't the first time we have to fight outnumbered and for long a period of time.

As a sidenote, IRON, I hope that you'll do better than last war and find a way not to lose 26% of your membership.
[/quote]

This is TOP yev or another yev?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1340220163' post='2990399']
snip
[/quote]

"I/we didn't know about this or that stipulation" is not an excuse. Get the details down before agreeing to the proposal. It's just sloppy otherwise.

And like in my previous post, don't agree to something if you're not going to follow through on it. If you weren't sorry say "We don't agree to do the apology because we don't endorse said member's actions" and find something else to agree on that satisfies both parties.

If you all really wanted war, just say so.

Edited by Kzoppistan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='jraenar' timestamp='1340220009' post='2990394']
And yet, he didn't. And this isn't the first time LSF members have tried to incite wars via spying and impersonation.
[/quote]

[2012-06-17 19:08:01] <Aggressivenutmeg> This could very well come back and bite us in the arse
[2012-06-17 19:08:09] <[REDACTED]> Shhhhhh
[2012-06-17 19:08:10] <MCRABT> nah
[2012-06-17 19:08:22] <MCRABT> I'll let him no eventually
[2012-06-17 19:08:28] <MCRABT> *know

Yup. Totally didn't say that.

Furthermore, as Bob pointed out, Opti also pretended to to be Tulak_Hord (and yet you don't see Sparta getting upset over it). In fact, I think these logs further prove that Opti was not maliciously trying to hide who he was like stated in other threads.

[2012-06-17 18:29:35] <Tulak_Hord> [02:28:42] <xoin> I have no intrest in speaking to someone that has no registered nick or any other way to make sure its the right person
[2012-06-17 18:29:35] <Tulak_Hord> [02:29:00] <xoin> tl;dr try harder Optimistic
[2012-06-17 18:29:43] <Tulak_Hord> [02:29:12] <Tulak_Hord> gheeey

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1340221069' post='2990407']
I hope INT amends their treaty with LSF to read "We are not obligated to defend you when you act like a gaggle of morons".
[/quote]
All treaties got that clause.

All treaties also got the "if you ask us NOT TO intervene, we won't" clause.

Nobody just think it's useful to add them to their treaties. It also gives everybody a chance to poke fun at their enemies when they do A or B. It's like peace mode, in that regard.

@Myth: yes, formerly of TOP. I admit that it can be easy to confuse me with a former member of LSF, Comrade Yev. He is currently in Créole, I believe.

Kzopp: I know you as a smarter man than that. Don't tie the party line for the sake of it. In such small matters, common sense dictates the timetable, not documents. There is no need to get paperwork for the payment of 200 tech because it is expected that it will be paid in a matter of days. Declaring war after 18 hours is simply nonsense.

Edited by Yevgeni Luchenkov
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1340220163' post='2990399']
The LSF, as a whole, wasn't sorry. We felt it was business between Opti and IRON. We still presented an apology but decided to include a jab in it.
[/quote]
you are a new member, so i don't blame you if you think the LSF actually decided anything on this matter, everything else you said was true though

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1340220786' post='2990403']
"I/we didn't know about this or that stipulation" is not an excuse. Get the details down before agreeing to the proposal. It's just sloppy otherwise.

And like in my previous post, don't agree to something if you're not going to follow through on it. If you weren't sorry say "We don't agree to do the apology because we don't endorse said member's actions" and find something else to agree on that satisfies both parties.

If you all really wanted war, just say so.
[/quote]
again, the LSF decided or agreed to nothing, why the LSF is being blamed, idk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IRON makes a deals for peace and the DAY after they are agreed to (not a lot of time for any alliances to complete peace terms) declares war.

When defeated alliances don't follow through with their reparations, it's considered a good reason for war. What happens when alliances make deals and agree not to declare war as a result of the deal and then do so anyway?

About the agreement:

Apology:

Looked like an apology to me. As I've said elsewhere, OWF "apologies" are NEVER sincere and anyone who demands an apology as part of a term for peace (either before a war or after) knows better. It's about power. It's "see what we made that alliance do" and not about REALLY needing the other person to say "I'm sorry" so that you feel better. "Sincere" apologies are when someone says "I'm sorry" without being asked.

Tech:

Getting 200 tech moved as an alliance already involved in a war within one night is a little much. Also, I don't recall their being any mention of a short time frame.

Person kicked out:

Go check any random alliances forum. I bet there are many many people who are technically still "members" of many other alliances based on forum membership. Sorry, but THIS example of LSF supposedly doing something wrong is way way way beyond what is reasonable.

And of course regardless you give one day for compliance?

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1340216225' post='2990313']I think this is a pretty different situation. From what I understand the attack being launched is because LSF agreed to something and then didn't follow through. It isn't just because of IRC impersonation.
[/quote]

One day of not getting something done is NOT proof that they didn't follow through.

IRON, either make a deal or declare war, it's a one or the other situation. Not both.

IRON messed it up.

Edited by White Chocolate
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not that it is all that relevant to people, but a lowly nub has a question:

If Optimistic/Sabcat/random LSF member, as a member of LSF, represents all his government by his actions....

Does Chairman Hal, by his callout on the OWF, represent all of Valhalla by his own?

If a member of an alliance is considered representative of that alliance, how exactly does this faux moral outrage and war cheerleading work exactly? I don't deny LSF did something that was unwise (indeed foolish), but the pots calling the kettle black is a bit strange.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Illustrious' timestamp='1340217100' post='2990339']
Really? You couldn't have taken a minute out of your time and instead of posting this check his AA and find out that he is telling the truth?
[/quote]

Never let context stand in the way of a good image opportunity.

I didn't doubt he had changed his AA in realm, it is how he's representing himself and LSF that is frustrating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1340221276' post='2990410']
Kzopp: I know you as a smarter man than that. Don't tie the party line for the sake of it. In such small matters, common sense dictates the timetable, not documents. There is no need to get paperwork for the payment of 200 tech because it is expected that it will be paid in a matter of days. [/quote]

Yev, I've discovered that sense is not all that common at all. In case of threats of war, a rather serious matter, it would seem better to get details in writing. Either it was sloppy diplomacy, or there is some deception going on. And to your first line, while I appreciate your assessment of my intelligence, as misplaced as it is, I'm afraid my mercenary disposition leaves little interest in regards to the how the ramifications of this plays out on the global stage, so I have no party line to support.


[quote name='Anarquista' timestamp='1340221472' post='2990411']
you are a new member, so i don't blame you if you think the LSF actually decided anything on this matter, everything else you said was true though

again, the LSF decided or agreed to nothing...
[/quote]


That being the case, why then did Sabcat post an apology (a half-assed one, at that) when nothing was decided? Seems a rather reckless thing to do, if you were truly interested in peace.


[quote]Declaring war after 18 hours is simply nonsense.[/quote]

[quote]why the LSF is being blamed, idk[/quote]

Are you both being obtuse? If you truly don't know, then why don't you speculate on IRON's motivations, if they aren't simply perusing personal retribution? For those out of the loop of those behind-the-scenes maneuverings, like myself, perhaps your insights would prove enlightening to the masses.

Go ahead, I am most curious.

Edited by Kzoppistan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...