Official IRON Announcement

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='TIEIXIAIS' timestamp='1340246824' post='2991028']
You lack relevance, and your backing of his 'argument' actually hurts it. Please, for LSF's sake stay out of it.
[/quote]

Truly a master debater here.

[Anarquista]

[quote name='Auctor' timestamp='1340246705' post='2991024']
No one's under any obligation to respect your internal decision making process when you're committing acts of war against them.
[/quote]
"you're"?

[kingzog]

[quote name='Anarquista' timestamp='1340247336' post='2991039']
"you're"?
[/quote]

Yes, as in the collective 'you'. It's how alliances work.

[Heft]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1340246926' post='2991031']
Truly a master debater here.
[/quote]
Mostly, Yev has just been harping on one point, taking a single fact and extrapolating an entire other set of facts from it to make up an argument. The one point has been addressed by multiple people, and his responses have basically been to repeat himself ad naseum. At some point, people stop bothering to address it again, as it's clear he's not interested in a real explanation, but prefers to just push his imagined explanation instead.

Also, LSF apparently had the time and organization to come up with the most convoluted way to say "$%&@ you" instead of apologizing, so I think they could have managed to send out 100 tech to Rab. That's not exactly an arduous process.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Heft

[TIEIXIAIS]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1340246926' post='2991031']
Truly a master debater here.
[/quote]

My hand agrees sir.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1340247735' post='2991047']
Mostly, Yev has just been harping on one point, taking a single fact and extrapolating an entire other set of facts from it to make up an argument. The one point has been addressed by multiple people, and his responses have basically been to repeat himself ad naseum. At some point, people stop bothering to address it again, as it's clear he's not interested in a real explanation, but prefers to just push his imagined explanation instead.

Also, LSF apparently had the time and organization to come up with the most convoluted way to say "$%&@ you" instead of apologizing, so I think they could have managed to send out 100 tech to Rab. That's not exactly an arduous process.[/quote]
I've been pointing out two points. Of course, I don't expect *you* in specific to appreciate the arguments. Former IRON government members aren't exactly the people I'm trying to talk to.

Two points out of three seem to be a good deal to me. That's 66% of their OP. 66% of their war reasons.

And yes, it's complicated to send tech to a guy who's not online to confirm the tech must be sent to him and, when he is, he ignores us.

I've only repeated myself as many times as IRON has said the lie about Opti being a member. I already acknowledged that they were perfectly in their right to DoW on us for the apology presented. I don't know how I am the one being obtuse or refusing to recognize what is right and what isn't.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Yevgeni Luchenkov

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1340247735' post='2991047']
Mostly, Yev has just been harping on one point, taking a single fact and extrapolating an entire other set of facts from it to make up an argument. The one point has been addressed by multiple people, and his responses have basically been to repeat himself ad naseum. At some point, people stop bothering to address it again, as it's clear he's not interested in a real explanation, but prefers to just push his imagined explanation instead.

Also, LSF apparently had the time and organization to come up with the most convoluted way to say "$%&@ you" instead of apologizing, so I think they could have managed to send out 100 tech to Rab. That's not exactly an arduous process.
[/quote]

One point? He seems to have hit them all.

-Reps (only 18 hours, really?)
-Expulsion (your own government acknowledged he left)
-Apology (it was a forced apology, maybe iron should not have accepted it then?)

Please feel free to point out what that "one point" is, however.

[Hereno]

[quote name='Auctor' timestamp='1340246705' post='2991024']
No one's under any obligation to respect your internal decision making process when you're committing acts of war against them.
[/quote]

That kind of attitude is exactly what lead to LSF acting in the way it has towards IRON. If you're going to treat us like garbage and disrespect us when we're making attempts to rectify the situation, you can expect hidden messages in our forced apologies and foul treatment in our IRC channel. I think IRON would have found if they gave us time to actually talk things out and have a proper vote according to our charter, that things would have turned out much different than they have and the relations between our two alliances would be on much better terms.

[quote name='TIEIXIAIS' timestamp='1340246824' post='2991028']
You lack relevance, and your backing of his 'argument' actually hurts it. Please, for LSF's sake stay out of it.
[/quote]

xfd get a load of this guy

[Auctor]

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1340248082' post='2991056']
That kind of attitude is exactly what lead to LSF acting in the way it has towards IRON. If you're going to treat us like garbage and disrespect us when we're making attempts to rectify the situation, you can expect hidden messages in our forced apologies and foul treatment in our IRC channel. I think IRON would have found if they gave us time to actually talk things out and have a proper vote according to our charter, that things would have turned out much different than they have and the relations between our two alliances would be on much better terms.
[/quote]
"better relations with lsf" aren't exactly a selling point these days.

[Opaque]

[quote name='Auctor' timestamp='1340248176' post='2991058']
"better relations with lsf" aren't exactly a selling point these days.
[/quote]

His point is that had IRON let LSF handle this properly, and not have imposed a time limit on the reparations, then this thread might not even be here.

[TIEIXIAIS]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1340248033' post='2991054']
I've been pointing out two points. Of course, I don't expect *you* in specific to appreciate the arguments. Former IRON government members aren't exactly the people I'm trying to talk to.

Two points out of three seem to be a good deal to me. That's 66% of their OP. 66% of their war reasons.

And yes, it's complicated to send tech to a guy who's not online to confirm the tech must be sent to him and, when he is, he ignores us.

I've only repeated myself as many times as IRON has said the lie about Opti being a member. I already acknowledged that they were perfectly in their right to DoW on us for the apology presented. I don't know how I am the one being obtuse or refusing to recognize what is right and what isn't.
[/quote]
For your ego's sake, I will say your two points are fantastic and right on point!

I would however like to point out the fact that you only have to violate the terms once to manifest a valid CB.

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1340248071' post='2991055']
One point? He seems to have hit them all.

-Reps (only 18 hours, really?)
-Expulsion (your own government acknowledged he left)
-Apology (it was a forced apology, maybe iron should not have accepted it then?)

Please feel free to point out what that "one point" is, however.
[/quote]
-Does not take 18 hours to send one FA offer.
-The government assumed he left, but later found out he was still a member(And still is mind you)
-The Apology was mute on discovery that it was not an apology.

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1340248082' post='2991056']
That kind of attitude is exactly what lead to LSF acting in the way it has towards IRON. If you're going to treat us like garbage and disrespect us when we're making attempts to rectify the situation, you can expect hidden messages in our forced apologies and foul treatment in our IRC channel. I think IRON would have found if they gave us time to actually talk things out and have a proper vote according to our charter, that things would have turned out much different than they have and the relations between our two alliances would be on much better terms.



xfd get a load of this guy
[/quote]
LSF did not recognize the terms, they were late in fact and if it wasn't for INT, LSF would have never even attempted them.

[Auctor]

[quote name='Captain Spock' timestamp='1340248499' post='2991065']
His point is that had IRON let LSF handle this properly, and not have imposed a time limit on the reparations, then this thread might not even be here.
[/quote]always much easier to dig a hole than fill it back up ain't it.

[Captain Flinders]

[quote name='Auctor' timestamp='1340246705' post='2991024']
No one's under any obligation to respect your internal decision making process when you're committing acts of war against them.
[/quote]
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has been thinking this while LSF has been trying to explain away their complete lack of competency. Good posting sir.

[Mr Havok]

[quote name='TIEIXIAIS' timestamp='1340248517' post='2991066']
For your ego's sake, I will say your two points are fantastic and right on point!

I would however like to point out the fact that you only have to violate the terms once to manifest a valid CB.


-Does not take 18 hours to send one FA offer.
-The government assumed he left, but later found out he was still a member(And still is mind you)
-The Apology was mute on discovery that it was not an apology.


LSF did not recognize the terms, they were late in fact and if it wasn't for INT, LSF would have never even attempted them.
[/quote]

Mute on discovery huh there's a button on the tv for that

I love when iron goes to war we get treated to the comic relief you provide

Keep it up superstar you never disappoint

[TIEIXIAIS]

[quote name='Mr Havok' timestamp='1340248815' post='2991078']
Mute on discovery huh there's a button on the tv for that

I love when iron goes to war we get treated to the comic relief you provide

Keep it up superstar you never disappoint
[/quote]

I see that the wonderful propaganda machine of MCXA is still well oiled. I think you may want to change it's diaper though. LSF could definitely use your help in resolving their paradox.

[Istado]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1340248033' post='2991054']
I've been pointing out two points. Of course, I don't expect *you* in specific to appreciate the arguments. Former IRON government members aren't exactly the people I'm trying to talk to.

Two points out of three seem to be a good deal to me. That's 66% of their OP. 66% of their war reasons.

And yes, it's complicated to send tech to a guy who's not online to confirm the tech must be sent to him and, when he is, he ignores us.

I've only repeated myself as many times as IRON has said the lie about Opti being a member. I already acknowledged that they were perfectly in their right to DoW on us for the apology presented. I don't know how I am the one being obtuse or refusing to recognize what is right and what isn't.
[/quote]


for the past 20 or so pages, i've seen you come up with all sorts of excuses, explanations, and justifications; only to repeat them time and again.

if you or your alliance has any shame or principles you should just move on from this announcement thread and back-up your "apologies" message with deeds.

pathetic.

[Mr Havok]

[quote name='TIEIXIAIS' timestamp='1340249010' post='2991089']
I see that the wonderful propaganda machine of MCXA is still well oiled. I think you may want to change it's diaper though. LSF could definitely use your help in resolving their paradox.
[/quote]

It's not propaganda when I point out you don't know how to use correct words. Here is a tip only use words that you are sure of the meaning on.

Either that or IRON can bring NSO back in to give you all lessons on how to post here and avoid trolling....you seem to need a refresher course

But I suppose it's all a mute point now huh

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Captain Spock' timestamp='1340248499' post='2991065']
His point is that had IRON let LSF handle this properly, and not have imposed a time limit on the reparations, then this thread might not even be here.
[/quote]

There was a time limit? Was LSF informed of this?

[quote name='TIEIXIAIS' timestamp='1340248517' post='2991066']


-Does not take 18 hours to send one FA offer.
-The government assumed he left, but later found out he was still a member(And still is mind you)
-The Apology was mute on discovery that it was not an apology.

[/quote]

-If you had been paying attention to Yevgeni's post (as you keep claiming you have) you would realize they Had tried to contact IRON about where to send the payment to before you guys declared war.
-Again, if you had been reading he had left the AA and applied to Int. Not being able to have an admin on and demask him within 24 hours is, nevermind the fact that it may be breaching the OOC/IC barrier, a lot to expect for a small alliance where the admin may be away IRL.
-If you had just declared war because of the apology that would be cool, lying about the other stuff just gets you called out on it. Welcome to CN?

[Opaque]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1340249254' post='2991098']
There was a time limit? Was LSF informed of this?
[/quote]

Of course, that's why everyone was in a rush to a) accept the terms and b) pay the tech

[jraenar]

There was a time limit of 24 hours. When it lapsed, and LSF ran to IRON a minute after the deadline, IRON generously gave them another 24 hours. Then the continued insults and deliberate stalling came to light. Once IRON came to believe that LSF had no intention of honoring the terms, they were revoked in favor of a DoW.

[USMC123]

[quote name='TIEIXIAIS' timestamp='1340248517' post='2991066']
-Does not take 18 hours to send one FA offer.
-The government assumed he left, but later found out he was still a member(And still is mind you)
-The Apology was mute on discovery that it was not an apology.
[/quote]

I could make a lot of comments on this, but instead I'll just ask you to please tell me more about how LSF's government assumed Opti left but found out he was still a member (unless of course you are referring to IRON, in which case, lolwut?).

[quote name='jraenar' timestamp='1340249495' post='2991106']
There was a time limit of 24 hours. When it lapsed, and LSF ran to IRON a minute after the deadline, IRON generously gave them another 24 hours. Then the continued insults and deliberate stalling came to light. Once IRON came to believe that LSF had no intention of honoring the terms, they were revoked in favor of a DoW.
[/quote]

"Waaaahhhh! The members of another alliance don't like me! They clearly aren't going to pay reps! Waaaaahhhh!"

Edited June 21, 2012 by USMC123

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='jraenar' timestamp='1340249495' post='2991106']
There was a time limit of 24 hours. When it lapsed, and LSF ran to IRON a minute after the deadline, IRON generously gave them another 24 hours. Then the continued insults and deliberate stalling came to light. Once IRON came to believe that LSF had no intention of honoring the terms, they were revoked in favor of a DoW.
[/quote]
Except not.

We were given a 24 hours deadline to accept their terms. We took 24 hours and 1 minute to post the apology. After which we decided we would contact them tomorrow morning (it was getting late). The next morning, they ignored us and then DoWed.

Again, call us out on the apology, fine. But there is no need to lie about the reps (we made every effort to contact them and confirm the targets) AND about the expelled member (they recognized him as expelled all the way up to this DoW where they changed their stance).

@Istado: For the past 20 pages, I've only repeated the same message, rebutting all of your drones. I can keep on doing it for 100 more if you want. As a sidenote, you might want to tone down the tough boy attitude, it's not really becoming of your alliance.

[Heft]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1340248033' post='2991054']
I've been pointing out two points. Of course, I don't expect *you* in specific to appreciate the arguments. Former IRON government members aren't exactly the people I'm trying to talk to.

Two points out of three seem to be a good deal to me. That's 66% of their OP. 66% of their war reasons.

And yes, it's complicated to send tech to a guy who's not online to confirm the tech must be sent to him and, when he is, he ignores us.

I've only repeated myself as many times as IRON has said the lie about Opti being a member. I already acknowledged that they were perfectly in their right to DoW on us for the apology presented. I don't know how I am the one being obtuse or refusing to recognize what is right and what isn't.
[/quote]
I've only noticed the one. It's pretty clear that Rab assumed LSF was abiding by the terms when he thought they were apologizing. Once it was clear you guys had actually done basically the opposite of that, someone went and double-checked the rest and noticed that Opti was still masked. His AA wasn't LSF, but it hadn't been LSF during the entire situation, as I understand it. So, no visible change in membership status.

Not that it really matters, following "$%&@ you in the ass."

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1340249904' post='2991116']
I've only noticed the one. It's pretty clear that Rab assumed LSF was abiding by the terms when he thought they were apologizing. Once it was clear you guys had actually done basically the opposite of that, someone went and double-checked the rest and noticed that Opti was still masked. His AA wasn't LSF, but it hadn't been LSF during the entire situation, as I understand it. So, no visible change in membership status.

Not that it really matters, following "$%&@ you in the ass."
[/quote]
It matters if you're going to use it against us. Drop it and I'll drop my objections to your little crusade.

[Heft]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1340249974' post='2991120']
It matters if you're going to use it against us. Drop it and I'll drop my objections to your little crusade.
[/quote]
Well that seems a little hyperbolic.