Why shouldn't I quit?

[Viluin]

[quote name='Franz Ferdinand' timestamp='1340027717' post='2987616']
Just form an alliance and declare war on the Green Protection Agency. Everything else will resolve itself from there.
[/quote]

I doubt people would fight alongside me. It wouldn't solve anything.

[Schattenmann]

I'd be interested to hear what beside 2 GAs went into Polaris' considerations.

You made an agreement with GPA and then you decided to change your mind and run; that only made things more difficult.

[jerdge]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1340024952' post='2987575']LOL AT GPA's 468 million though, where did they pull that figure from?[/quote]
It's what he could have paid in six months if he had elected to go with monetary reps only. He could have also converted half of it in tech (at the very generous - I believe - conversion rate of $4,500,000 for 50 tech), and have it paid in three months (90 days).


Expanding a bit on the situation, here's the resume of what happened:
[list][*]Viluin went rogue on two GPA nations, with ~15k and ~17k infra respectively. The damages he quickly caused were worth hundreds of millions.
[*]As we have a policy of "you pay twice" and another policy of "we won't hold you as POW for more than six months", I quickly informed him about what he would have had to pay if he decided to surrender. In the meanwhile we started to counter him.
[*]Viluin quickly moved from [i]"I have billions saved you'd better let me go I can fight until 2014 and wipe the floor with your low tiers I am the bestest ahr ahr"[/i] to [i]"I have this clever plan to involve someone else to have them annoyed at the GPA that fills my defensive slots with incapable fighters that push buttons at random"[/i] to [i]"OMG they can actually fight I couldn't have imagined"[/i] and eventually to [i]"darn how it is that they didn't bend to my threats now what will I do I am the cleverest!!!111"[/i].
[*]The NpO asked him reps as well and Viluin started to blame us because we would have been strong-arming him to pay them too. I actually asked him whether he wanted that we worked with the NpO on some common set of terms, or he preferred to handle each conflict separately. He did this last and he obtained what he calls an horrible deal. Basically: he blames us for his incompetence at negotiating with them.
[*]Viluin finally accepted our terms and was allowed to peace out his active wars with us. He then fled to Peace Mode at the first occasion and openly told us that he "had" to trick us to get away from Polaris.
[*]I am his GPA negotiator and I currently consider his word worthless, I think for very good reason. His next steps were to blown up his secret trades out of ignorance (that's not a guilt: we are all ignorant of something) and this thread. I don't see him going places, but who [s]not?[/s] knows?[/list]

Edited June 18, 2012 by jerdge

[dane0]

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1340028401' post='2987625']
It's what he could have paid in six months if he had elected to go with monetary reps only. He could have also converted half of it in tech (at the very generous - I believe - conversion rate of $4,500,000 for 50 tech), and have it paid in three months (90 days).
[/quote]

Excuse me as I start selling tech at 4.5 mil/50 tech.

But no, seriously, you're being a disgrace to the game in general. Man up, take your reps.

[Viluin]

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1340028401' post='2987625']
It's what he could have paid in six months if he had elected to go with monetary reps only. He could have also converted half of it in tech (at the very generous - I believe - conversion rate of $4,500,000 for 50 tech), and have it paid in three months (90 days).
[/quote]

Yes, I'm going to send away all my hard earned tech only to find CN at the brink of death when I'm done paying reps. Deletion is a better option, at least then I don't have to spend months as a lap dog sending away free stuff to people I don't like.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1340028318' post='2987624']
I'd be interested to hear what beside 2 GAs went into Polaris' considerations.

You made an agreement with GPA and then you decided to change your mind and run; that only made things more difficult.
[/quote]

As far as I know, the NpO nation I attacked hadn't even logged in yet when they demanded those reps, so there was no damage report. They demanded that number because they could. I told them I hardly did anything, but they didn't care. Later, the NpO nation woke up and attacked me and then I resumed my attacks as well. There were two days when I could've nuked, but didn't.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Viluin

[jerdge]

Other facts:
• Viluin attacked us on May 28th, claiming that he could fight until 2014 and that we'd better let him go, "or else". He accepted the terms and surrendered on June, 1st [s]May, 31st[/s]. He broke his terms on June, 3rd.
• A lot of the "peace talks" can be seen by anyone with a diplomatic mask on the GPA board: [url=http://forums.cn-gpa.com/showthread.php?tid=48241]link[/url].

Edited June 18, 2012 by jerdge

[Viluin]

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1340030355' post='2987643']
Other facts:
• Viluin attacked us on May 28th, claiming that he could fight until 2014 and that we'd better let him go, "or else". He surrendered on June, 1st. He broke his terms on June, 3rd.
• A lot of the "peace talks" can be seen by anyone with a diplomatic mask on the GPA board: [url=http://forums.cn-gpa.com/showthread.php?tid=48241]link[/url].
[/quote]


I [i]can[/i] fight until 2014, which I tried to use as an argument to get peace. I've just come to realize I don't want to, especially when my trades fell apart. It's not worth all the frustration.

Not to mention 9 months of reps for 3 days of war is unprecedented in this game. And they say NPO had it rough after Karma, yeah right.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Viluin

[Finnish Commie]

You are so silly Viluin.

[Isaac MatthewII]

pro tip: dont go rogue

[CheeKy]

The joke here is that nobody cares for either NpO or GPA. So just apply to a new alliance and you will probably be allowed in. On that note, what Viluin says is true, he is able to keep this going for months and months. In that regard it might be better to let him go before he does decide to keep fighting you guys.

The issue here is that Viluin is on his own without anyone backing him up.

[Diego18]

What was the point of saving that money for years if you get scared by a little war. Just keep the war. It wont last more than 1 month before they stop attacking you

[Viluin]

[quote name='Diego18' timestamp='1340031134' post='2987652']
What was the point of saving that money for years if you get scared by a little war. Just keep the war. It wont last more than 1 month before they stop attacking you
[/quote]

You're joking, right? After one month of nuclear war my nation will be so deep in the pit (tech lost), there's no point in trying to rebuild. They may stop, but only when my NS is too low for their nuclear nations to declare on me. Big help that is. And I'd still remain sanctioned on every team.

At this stage of the game, a month is past the point of no return.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Viluin

[jerdge]

[quote name='Viluin' timestamp='1340030623' post='2987644']I [i]can[/i] fight until 2014, which I tried to use as an argument to get peace. I've just come to realize I don't want to, especially when my trades fell apart. It's not worth all the frustration.[/quote]
I know the first thing, and I knew that you would have changed your mind out of frustration. In fact, [i]I even told it to you[/i], but you chose to not believe me. For like the 100th time: stop blaming everyone else but yourself and start working on your mistakes.



[quote name='Viluin' timestamp='1340030623' post='2987644']Not to mention 9 months of reps for 3 days of war is unprecedented in this game. And they say NPO had it rough after Karma, yeah right.[/quote]
Again, it wasn't 9 months. It was 6 months money-only or 3 months money+tech. Plus what you had agreed on with the NpO.
The idea is that you pay for your aggression so that, the next time, you think twice before attacking us again. We don't want to have to waste time with you every couple of months, thanks.

I remind you that you involved the NpO to try get some leverage against us. If you go rogue on 15 alliances and each asks you to spend one month paying reps, are they evil because they keep you down for 15 months, or are you dumb for having gone rogue on 15 alliances expecting to be then left go easily?

I'll be honest: I don't really get the fascination with going rogue on random nations. There are a lot of conflicts every now and then, and raiders all around: one looking for "fun" can very easily pull a NEW, or a Methrage, there's no need to go annoy people that are minding their own business, and it's silly to then claim that there need not to be consequences.
If you really have to go the rogue route, anyway, at least have the decency to plan it ahead, to know what you're doing, to target someone you really want to fight, to not surrender [i]after three days[/i] to then screw up in every other possible way, eventually getting on the forums to cry about the evil of having to face consequences for what you did.

I'll be sad if you leave, Viluin: not that I enjoy very much how you play, but you're a fellow player. That doesn't anyway mean that I'll leave you do whatever you want without doing my part in playing my "role" as it's meant to. Besides, months are not really much in a slow paced game like CN, there was no reason for you to think that being a POW until November had to be that terrible (you could have saved a lot on bills, getting an even bigger treasury, etc.) Now of course you proved me that your word is void, thus things are going to be tougher.

[Instr]

Viluin, make a sign-up list for nation sitting and then people will get to nation sit your nation and use your nation to rogue out with your 10 bn warchest.

It's just like normal roguing, except you don't even have to do the labor of roguing.

[crazyemolad]

At first I felt bad for you then I saw the response from GPA, thats their policy. Im sorry but might want to look into who your raiding next time, rules are rules.

Join an alliance or get some help, or war/reps will be your only options outside of deleting your nation.

[hullean]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1340028318' post='2987624']
I'd be interested to hear what beside 2 GAs went into Polaris' considerations.

You made an agreement with GPA and then you decided to change your mind and run; that only made things more difficult.
[/quote]
One of the main considerations that went into the price was his constant attitude of trying to threaten his way out of the mess he caused. In the end he agreed to pay his reps, by the time he had gotten around to finishing off GPA's reps it would probably have been a case of we were satisfied and I would have let him not pay anything. If you go rogue and then try to threaten your way into peace, I wouldn't let that go lightly hence the $90mil and tech.

[Viluin]

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1340032000' post='2987664']

Again, it wasn't 9 months. It was 6 months money-only or 3 months money+tech. Plus what you had agreed on with the NpO.
The idea is that you pay for your aggression so that, the next time, you think twice before attacking us again. We don't want to have to waste time with you every couple of months, thanks.

I remind you that you involved the NpO to try get some leverage against us. If you go rogue on 15 alliances and each asks you to spend one month paying reps, are they evil because they keep you down for 15 months, or are you dumb for having gone rogue on 15 alliances expecting to be then left go easily?

I'll be honest: I don't really get the fascination with going rogue on random nations. There are a lot of conflicts every now and then, and raiders all around: one looking for "fun" can very easily pull a NEW, or a Methrage, there's no need to go annoy people that are minding their own business, and it's silly to then claim that there need not to be consequences.
If you really have to go the rogue route, anyway, at least have the decency to plan it ahead, to know what you're doing, to target someone you really want to fight, to not surrender [i]after three days[/i] to then screw up in every other possible way, eventually getting on the forums to cry about the evil of having to face consequences for what you did.

I'll be sad if you leave, Viluin: not that I enjoy very much how you play, but you're a fellow player. That doesn't anyway mean that I'll leave you do whatever you want without doing my part in playing my "role" as it's meant to. Besides, months are not really much in a slow paced game like CN, there was no reason for you to think that being a POW until November had to be that terrible (you could have saved a lot on bills, getting an even bigger treasury, etc.) Now of course you proved me that your word is void, thus things are going to be tougher.
[/quote]


It's 6 months to you, and 3 months to NpO. That's 9 months of being out of the game, a game that may only have a year of life left in it. That's simply not gonna work. It can be paid in 6 months, but then I lose most of my tech, in which case I might as well just stay at war because tech means everything (I have more money than I can ever spend).

You offered unacceptable reps, so now I have to make a choice between eternal war or deletion. It's a tough one, but I've been at war for 3 months straight before, and I know how boring and time consuming it becomes (especially if I have to find trades all the time), so I'm leaning towards deletion.

[quote name='hullean' timestamp='1340032508' post='2987674']
One of the main considerations that went into the price was his constant attitude of trying to threaten his way out of the mess he caused. In the end he agreed to pay his reps, [b]by the time he had gotten around to finishing off GPA's reps it would probably have been a case of we were satisfied and I would have let him not pay anything.[/b] If you go rogue and then try to threaten your way into peace, I wouldn't let that go lightly hence the $90mil and tech.
[/quote]

Oh of course, that's really easy to say now.

Most of the threats came after you mentioned your ridiculous reps. The amount of reps you demanded was one of the first things we spoke about, in fact I queried you for that purpose.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Viluin

[Mompson]

You rouge us.
You threaten us.
You become a GPA PoW.
You pay one round of agreed reps.
You run to PM.
You spy 5-10 nations of ours over a period of a few days.
You whine when you lose your trades.
You're whine that we're going to do something about it.

We're waiting buddy.

[jerdge]

Viluin, until you stop inventing things out of thin air this situation will continue to be tough on you. There's no talk of eternal war here.

You accepted "unacceptable" reps and you then immediately cheated on them, proving that you were lying to us about your intentions since the very first moment. By attacking us you also proved that you're a threat. We're going to deal with you just like it's reasonable to deal with unreliable threats: putting you down.

None of this implies "eternal war", as we'll bring you to a point at which we'll be satisfied of the job and we won't consider you a threat anymore. Of course, it will be quite a long affair: likely longer than the 3 or 6 or 9 months you abhorred so much (and you also will come out in a worse shape too).

I am even sympathetic with you, but not to the point of solving for you the problems you worked so much to create for yourself (I think you can see how asking that from me would really be too much!) For the love of Admin, as you clearly can't handle this situation, [i]go get some wise advice[/i] (not from some "lulzy" individual/alliance).

[Viluin]

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1340033443' post='2987683']
Viluin, until you stop inventing things out of thin air this situation will continue to be tough on you. There's no talk of eternal war here.

You accepted "unacceptable" reps and you then immediately cheated on them, proving that you were lying to us about your intentions since the very first moment. By attacking us you also proved that you're a threat. We're going to deal with you just like it's reasonable to deal with unreliable threats: putting you down.

None of this implies "eternal war", as we'll bring you to a point at which we'll be satisfied of the job and we won't consider you a threat anymore. Of course, it will be quite a long affair: likely longer than the 3 or 6 or 9 months you abhorred so much (and you also will come out in a worse shape too).

I am even sympathetic with you, but not to the point of solving for you the problems you worked so much to create for yourself (I think you can see how asking that from me would really be too much!) For the love of Admin, as you clearly can't handle this situation, [i]go get some wise advice[/i] (not from some "lulzy" individual/alliance).
[/quote]

NpO told me they wouldn't stop until my warchest was gone. Besides, 9+ months of war is practically forever anyway, don't pretend that it isn't.

If I wanted to spend time fighting you, I would. You claim I'm a threat, but it's clear that I simply can't be bothered fighting you. So why would I attack you again? Nonsense.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Viluin

[Ziperia]

You should quit, you are a worthless waste of pixels.

[jerdge]

[quote name='Viluin' timestamp='1340033559' post='2987685']NpO told me they wouldn't stop until my warchest was gone. Besides, 9+ months of war is practically forever anyway, don't pretend that it isn't.[/quote]
In fact there's no pretension: it isn't.

[quote name='Viluin' timestamp='1340033559' post='2987685']If I wanted to spend time fighting you, I would. You claim I'm a threat, but it's clear that I simply can't be bothered fighting you. So why would I attack you again? Nonsense.[/quote]
Sure you don't expect that we now take your word for it, do you? I prefer to make sure of that, thanks.


(Go get some advice, [i]please[/i].)

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='Viluin' timestamp='1340027513' post='2987614']
If the situation doesn't improve soon, I will quit, yes. Peace mode isn't really an option either cause I'm losing boatloads of money every day.
[/quote]

Heh, Polish Hostage FTW.

If you are going to go rogue on someone, most likely because you wish to cause them some hassles and disrupt their functioning, [meaning, with malicious intent] then you had better be ready for them getting angry at you and using your nation for target practice or as a lemon for some juice to be squeezed out.

[Alterego]

Just go to MK and get a pardon. Im sure they will have no problem rolling NpO/GPA for you.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Alterego

[Viluin]

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1340033897' post='2987692']
In fact there's no pretension: it isn't.


Sure you don't expect that we now take your word for it, do you? I prefer to make sure of that, thanks.


(Go get some advice, [i]please[/i].)
[/quote]

You prefer to make sure I won't attack you again, by attacking me for 9 months? What makes you think [b]I[/b] would stop attacking [b]you[/b] after that kind of punishment? Of course I wouldn't, after 9 months (if I don't delete) I would be ready to fight to the death, my nation would be too damaged to try making a comeback in this dying world. That's why I say such a long war is practically eternal. You are [i]creating[/i] the threat, not neutralizing it.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Viluin