NoR declares war on LSF

[Monster]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1339695201' post='2983652']
What a beautiful demonstration of the inanity of the treaty web. Of course it's fine when it stifles any political movement and allows everyone on the majority side to feel like they're on top. And as long as you don't mind being a satellite AA, it works well enough for when the actual powers decide they want a war. But god forbid the wrong alliance decides to have an agenda. This messes up everything!
[/quote]

Excellent point. The inconvenience this causes for the people who were looking for an easy war that was completely decided from the beginning is great to witness.

The issue is, I'm not sure this particular flashpoint could be avoided long-term either way. For instance, if the planned decimation of SF/XX into dust went according to plan, then it ends the dynamic where everyone can rest assured SF/XX are most vulnerable and something has to take its place and there are only a few things that could and they all go in the same direction.

[Bordiga]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1339695764' post='2983668']
One last bit to add, hi bordiga



I dont agree they are all that similar. MKs case is at least arguable. LSF has no leg to stand on at all. The difference in power/prestige between them is immense and I wont deny that affects how people react as well, but that is far from the only difference in the situations.
[/quote]

Hi Sigrun. Sounds like you have had some bad experiences with the LSF in the deep past. Similar to those the LSF has had with the very same people currently in NordReich.

I don't agree that MK has an arguable case. It is established that wars today are planned in advance, even if they may take place after finding some excuse to act upon. The extremely small pretext used to justify a war is largely irrelevant. LSF clearly didn't really bother with that, except obviously that they did provoke an attack, rather than launching one entirely of their own. But I don't see any difference, aside from what I already pointed out.

[Monster]

[quote name='Bordiga' timestamp='1339696850' post='2983700']
Hi Sigrun. Sounds like you have had some bad experiences with the LSF in the deep past. Similar to those the LSF has had with the very same people currently in NordReich.

I don't agree that MK has an arguable case. It is established that wars today are planned in advance, even if they may take place after finding some excuse to act upon. The extremely small pretext used to justify a war is largely irrelevant. LSF clearly didn't really bother with that, except obviously that they did provoke an attack, rather than launching one entirely of their own. But I don't see any difference, aside from what I already pointed out.
[/quote]

Exactly.

There is no real difference and the motivations are transparent in both cases aside from the power dynamics. Sigrun's bias is showing.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Roquentin

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1339667930' post='2983205']
At no point have we been told "don't do it, it will put us in a terrible situation" and that includes "rogues, what rogues" as our response to those fascist filth at NoR.



I hope that clears the situation up for you.
[/quote]


No.. that does not clear anything up.

[14:03:53] <Sir_Pwnage[INT]> No, LSF has definitely been made aware that a war with Nordreich would be a !@#$%* position for INT and our allies to be in.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Bordiga' timestamp='1339696850' post='2983700']
Hi Sigrun. Sounds like you have had some bad experiences with the LSF in the deep past. Similar to those the LSF has had with the very same people currently in NordReich. [/quote]

Not similar at all. The fact is that they are the ones bringing in hatred, who simply are not willing to co-exist with 'our kind' - they are the ones that split us into kinds and dehumanise 'my kind' all before a single word is exchanged. Their prejudice and hatred has brought their destruction upon them and this is simple justice. I will not allow for moral equivelance where I know for a fact none exists.

[quote]I don't agree that MK has an arguable case. [/quote]

No? CSN nations nuked a nation under their protection, after being told of the protection. That's a CB.

What makes it questionable, of course, is that MK accepted that nation knowing it was at war with CSN. That was a CB too. In retrospect, CSN would have been more wise to call off the attacks on the single nation - and if they felt it necessary, bring SF up to full alert and hit MK for it when they were ready. But instead they continued the attacks.

Then there is the whole question of whether their ZI order was well founded to begin with.

All kinds of issues there to argue, without needing to even consider the relative NS involved.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1339695135' post='2983649']
Coming from you and the kofn raid incident this is priceless
[/quote]

This was a cute reply. The KofN raid was the reason I got into gov. To ensure nothing like that ever happened again. I hated it, did not support it, an d set out to fix the problem. Its ok though, ignore all that and just assume that all of Athens was in the corner waiting for their free tech from KofN... no place for facts in CN.

[Bordiga]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1339697534' post='2983727']
Not similar at all. The fact is that they are the ones bringing in hatred, who simply are not willing to co-exist with 'our kind' - they are the ones that split us into kinds and dehumanise 'my kind' all before a single word is exchanged. Their prejudice and hatred has brought their destruction upon them and this is simple justice. I will not allow for moral equivelance where I know for a fact none exists.



No? CSN nations nuked a nation under their protection, after being told of the protection. That's a CB.

What makes it questionable, of course, is that MK accepted that nation knowing it was at war with CSN. That was a CB too. In retrospect, CSN would have been more wise to call off the attacks on the single nation - and if they felt it necessary, bring SF up to full alert and hit MK for it when they were ready. But instead they continued the attacks.

Then there is the whole question of whether their ZI order was well founded to begin with.

All kinds of issues there to argue, without needing to even consider the relative NS involved.
[/quote]


Someone who wants to make an argument out of MK's actions can. Someone wanting to get to the bottom of it and not defend them wouldn't.

I think it's pretty clear on this issue that you are biased about the "moral equivalence" of LSF versus the various fascist-themed alliances. Your examples draw from your personal experience. Lots of rhetoric in there. And my knowledge and experience means I don't agree with you. NordReich or NordenVerein were never destroyed by any left alliance, unlike SWF and ICP. LSF would have been destroyed too if it hadn't been for their determination.

[IYIyTh]

I mean, really Int. How much more shouting and how many more demands do these people have to make before you just agree that your ally "deserves to burn and should just die."

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1339670207' post='2983221']
Also lol, few people oppose what they believe to be a bad CB by MK, but ALSO oppose a rock solid CB of NOR.
[/quote]
I don't oppose the CB by NoR, I oppose that TLR is more than happy to defend MK but doesn't want Int to defend LSF. It's politicking at its finest.

[Mompson]

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1339699998' post='2983789']
I don't oppose the CB by NoR, I oppose that TLR is more than happy to defend MK but doesn't want Int to defend LSF. It's politicking at its finest.
[/quote]
Boom. We'll defend our allies, but it's outrageous for you to defend yours.

[Nestor Durruti Magon]

ITT: Liberals get frothy about the impoliteness of the anarchists towards the fascists, and declare that our impoliteness towards our oppressors makes us not really "innocent victims," and therefore we deserve to be smashed.

Let me save you liberals some mental anguish: We are guilty. We deserve the fascists attacking us. We wanted it. We asked for it.

And they deserve to be buried for attacking us. They deserve permanent ZI and disbandment. Just because you found the guilty party doesn't mean you found the one who deserves the punishment. And just because they are polite doesn't mean that they aren't fascists, White Supremacists, Nazis.

If you're looking for a victim, you won't find it in us. We are not victims, we are agents of our destiny.

"There's a reason why [OOC]OOC tags[/OOC] are used, you know. This sort of claim is baseless, and is truly damaging to people just trying to have some fun."

Baseless except for all the hard evidence. You're in denial. I started playing Cybernations to fight NoR after reading about how there were white supremacists recruiting on this website, and NoR was mentioned by name. There are dozens of other examples. See the NoR reunion thread for a bounty of examples from their own ex-ranks.

[SF Austin]

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1339699998' post='2983789']
I don't oppose the CB by NoR, I oppose that TLR is more than happy to defend MK but doesn't want Int to defend LSF. It's politicking at its finest.
[/quote]
They wouldn't be defending LSF, they would be acting in aggesion with LSF.

But it is their choice to make, I am sure some of our allies wouldn't mind if they join their fellow social/anarcho/commun/ pinkists...

[pd73bassman]

I detect a potential cluster you know what

[SF Austin]

[quote name='Nestor Durruti Magon' timestamp='1339700846' post='2983804']
ITT: Liberals get frothy about the impoliteness of the anarchists towards the fascists, and declare that our impoliteness towards our oppressors makes us not really "innocent victims," and therefore we deserve to be smashed.

Let me save you liberals some mental anguish: We are guilty. We deserve the fascists attacking us. We wanted it. We asked for it.

And they deserve to be buried for attacking us. They deserve permanent ZI and disbandment. Just because you found the guilty party doesn't mean you found the one who deserves the punishment. And just because they are polite doesn't mean that they aren't fascists, White Supremacists, Nazis.

If you're looking for a victim, you won't find it in us. We are not victims, we are agents of our destiny.

"There's a reason why [OOC]OOC tags[/OOC] are used, you know. This sort of claim is baseless, and is truly damaging to people just trying to have some fun."

Baseless except for all the hard evidence. You're in denial. I started playing Cybernations to fight NoR after reading about how there were white supremacists recruiting on this website, and NoR was mentioned by name. There are dozens of other examples. See the NoR reunion thread for a bounty of examples from their own ex-ranks.
[/quote]

Please go on, tell us how you REALLY feel....

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='pd73bassman' timestamp='1339701056' post='2983810']
I detect a potential cluster you know what
[/quote]
gee you think

[Exige]

[quote name='Nestor Durruti Magon' timestamp='1339686286' post='2983395']
Sup y'all.

I aided both of the "rogues" (what rogues?).
I was the one who unsanctioned one of 'em too.
I was the first LSF nation to respond to the subrosa cowardly attack on our alliance from fascist scum who don't even bother to post a declaration.

We went into this with our eyes wide open, and all of our allies knew exactly what we were doing. This attack came as no surprise to us, nor to our allies, several of whom warned us before it actually happened. Nothing was "stupid" or "undisciplined" about this direct threat, a threat we will make good on. Nordreich is a bunch of fascist scum that deserve every lost pixel they get. There are innumerable reasons for this. Those who apologize for them are tacit supporters of fascism, both in this silly game and in real life.

No pasaran. CN sera la tumba del fascismo.
[/quote]

lol lol lol I thought Rotavele and Death were the biggest idiots on planet Bob, but you son are the true retard king of CN.

you realy shouldn't be shouting "Nordreich is a bunch of fascist scum that deserve every lost pixel they get" when LSF deserve to be rolled for:
a) being socialist and communist. Both being worst than fascist ( socialist < communist < nazi < fascist < the treehuggers < democrats < ... )
b) being the worst nation builders in CN. Damn son, you brag about being around for 5years. What did you do in those 5 years? Collect with labor camps and guerilla camps every day?
c) !@#$@#$ up this situation and thinking you're alliance is worth a !@#$

and what's up with the spanish? Are you spanish? Than stop your political conquest and get a job/go to work. The European countries who's citizens aren't uneducated lazy bumms want their billions back.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Nestor Durruti Magon' timestamp='1339700846' post='2983804']
Baseless except for all the hard evidence. You're in denial. I started playing Cybernations to fight NoR after reading about how there were white supremacists recruiting on this website, and NoR was mentioned by name. There are dozens of other examples. See the NoR reunion thread for a bounty of examples from their own ex-ranks.
[/quote]
And this is where I'm wondering what the IC portion of this CB is. If they are recruiting or whatever it's all OOC stuff, and damaging their nations has absolutely no bearing on their ability to do so. If you have information, take it to the relevant people, don't dress up your undeclared war with it. You're getting dangerously close to Slayer territory from what I remember.

And for a conflict supposedly born from ideology, you don't seem to know much about the finer points. For instance, fascism and Nazism are not interchangeable terms, which you've been doing throughout this thread until this quoted post. Also, in an IC sense, you will have a hard time railing against 'fascism'. Most alliances here have some element of fascist ideas in their governmental structures and operations.

[LittleRena]

[quote name='Exige' timestamp='1339701375' post='2983818']
a) being socialist and communist. Both being worst than fascist ( socialist < communist < nazi < fascist < the treehuggers < democrats < ... )
[/quote]

I strongly disagree.

[Exige]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1339702384' post='2983833']
I strongly disagree.
[/quote]

good for you

[Aeros]

[quote name='Nestor Durruti Magon' timestamp='1339700846' post='2983804']
ITT: Liberals get frothy about the impoliteness of the anarchists towards the fascists, and declare that our impoliteness towards our oppressors makes us not really "innocent victims," and therefore we deserve to be smashed.

Let me save you liberals some mental anguish: We are guilty. We deserve the fascists attacking us. We wanted it. We asked for it.

And they deserve to be buried for attacking us. They deserve permanent ZI and disbandment. Just because you found the guilty party doesn't mean you found the one who deserves the punishment. And just because they are polite doesn't mean that they aren't fascists, White Supremacists, Nazis.

If you're looking for a victim, you won't find it in us. We are not victims, we are agents of our destiny.

"There's a reason why [OOC]OOC tags[/OOC] are used, you know. This sort of claim is baseless, and is truly damaging to people just trying to have some fun."

Baseless except for all the hard evidence. You're in denial. I started playing Cybernations to fight NoR after reading about how there were white supremacists recruiting on this website, and NoR was mentioned by name. There are dozens of other examples. See the NoR reunion thread for a bounty of examples from their own ex-ranks.
[/quote]

My, aren't we misinformed. You assume that NoR is white supremacist because they are German? That's a tad racist don't you think? Also, I find it amusing how you are automatically assuming that Nordreichs allies would stand idly by twiddling their thumbs if you ever even came close to realizing this pipe dream of "disbanding them". Funnily enough, I don't think that is something we all have to worry about.

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='SF Austin' timestamp='1339700920' post='2983807']
They wouldn't be defending LSF, they would be acting in aggesion with LSF. [/quote]
So how would TLR not be acting in aggression with MK?

[quote]But it is their choice to make, I am sure some of our allies wouldn't mind if they join their fellow social/anarcho/commun/ pinkists...
[/quote]
Haha okay there buddy. Pretty sure this isn't the war you want and [i]that's[/i] why CSN got hit.

[Space Monkey]

[quote name='Exige' timestamp='1339701375' post='2983818']


you realy shouldn't be shouting "Nordreich is a bunch of fascist scum that deserve every lost pixel they get" when LSF deserve to be rolled for:
a) being socialist and communist. Both being worst than fascist ( socialist < communist < nazi < fascist < the treehuggers < democrats < ... )

[/quote]
No, nationalism is the most retarded and worst concept known to man.

WOO look at me I was randomly born in these borders and my momy told me fairy tales and exaggeration, now I think I am special. Everyone else so stupid, and the country they were randomly born in and were told fairy tails stinks. My fascist leader is right, lets kill them.

I will will urinate on all those stupid down syndrome powindah degenerates.

For me, I dont care about winning. I just going to continue urinating on stupid people and laughing at them as they whine.

Geli Raubals Urethra supports in armed struggle in Elesufi Homeland
Just like Geli Raubal urinated on Hitler face; we will to continue urinate on nazis, fascists and nationalists.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Space Monkey

[WarriorConcept]

This is a great thread.

[Elrich von Richt]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1339705185' post='2983887']
This is a great thread.
[/quote]

It makes me feel nostalgic for some reason... I wonder why...

Edited June 14, 2012 by Elrich von Richt

[Exige]

[quote name='Space Monkey' timestamp='1339704463' post='2983876']
No, nationalism is the most retarded and worst concept known to man.

WOO look at me I was randomly born in these borders and my momy told me fairy tales and exaggeration, now I think I am special. Everyone else so stupid, and the country they were randomly born in and were told fairy tails stinks. My fascist leader is right, lets kill them.

I will will urinate on all those stupid down syndrome powindah degenerates.

For me, I dont care about winning. I just going to continue urinating on stupid people and laughing at them as they whine.

Geli Raubals Urethra supports in armed struggle in Elesufi Homeland
Just like Geli Raubal urinated on Hitler face; we will to continue urinate on nazis, fascists and nationalists.
[/quote]

So you hate the US, UK, France, Russia, Poland, The Netherlands, Italy, Spain, Greece, ... ? Cause 95% of the people in those countries think that way.

And at least it isn't as retarded as "all people are equal" and therefore everybody should get the same paycheck