Announcement from Pandora's Box

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Laslo Kenez' timestamp='1334318923' post='2952096']
I don't see how people can objectively fault this; it was rather good of PB to let Kaskus have fun for this long, because if it were done to one of my bloc-mates I'd have far less of a sense of humour about it.[/quote]

I'd be willing to bet every alliance in CnG wouldn't get into a war like this. Even TLR who are fairly aggressive wouldn't pick a fight to try and who they're tough, and then start losing that fight a little later.

[dunhill2071]

I do not understand why so many people are complaining.....

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='dunhill2071' timestamp='1334357558' post='2952524']
I do not understand why so many people are complaining.....
[/quote]
I don't think anyone is complaining, just calling you guys out on how foolish you look.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Methrage

[Tick1]

[quote name='death from above 82' timestamp='1334357083' post='2952521']
ok last attempt:

current tech deal from fok is dirkt and the current tech deal from ng is coffee shock- i must have magical abilities because that is the same two that was in my post on the 27th of feb (last edit 27th of feb). i need to play the ponies

Original post in goons defend great wall (page4 alliance announcements)- page 5 3/4 down page

edit add original post location
[/quote]


Based on the current tech deals you'll notice that;
Coffee Shock renewed on 03/29/12 meaning that he would have been sending out 3 million on 02/27/12
Dirkt renewed on 03/27/12 meaning that he would have been sending out 3 million on 02/25/12

This is assuming neither parties had been late in renewing. That also being said means these tech deals would have been 5-8 days after the raids had expired. That being said it is also possible that the tech deals had extended out further than that which I'm not denying. I'm merely proving that your last edit lines up with the renewal date of their tech deals.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Tick1

[Jaiar]

I don't see the problem with GOONS calling in its allies. Many people throwing criticism and ridicule at GOONS are in alliances that would have the same problems if Kaskus and Mongols were to go up against them. Kaskus and Mongols are not incompetent. Painting them as such or pointing to the small membership size they have is an ignorant observation.

If you feel your alliance can defeat Kaskus and Mongols by itself, then step up and raid them after their current war is over and prove that you can defeat them on your own or please shut up.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Tick1' timestamp='1334357824' post='2952527']
Based on the current tech deals you'll notice that;
Coffee Shock renewed on 03/29/12 meaning that he would have been sending out 3 million on 02/27/12
Dirkt renewed on 03/27/12 meaning that he would have been sending out 3 million on 02/25/12

This is assuming neither parties had been late in renewing. That also being said means these tech deals would have been 5-8 days after the raids had expired. That being said it is also possible that the tech deals had extended out further than that which I'm not denying. I'm merely proving that your last edit lines up with the renewal date of their tech deals.
[/quote]

<Gibsonator21> yo
<UnknownSmurf> Hi
<Gibsonator21> was gonna ask the date of the war starting, but Swatch got to it
<UnknownSmurf> Do you ahve records of aid from back then?
<Gibsonator21> gonna check
<Gibsonator21> im pretty sure i do
<UnknownSmurf> Sweet
<UnknownSmurf> End of march, I don't remember exactly
<UnknownSmurf> aid was sent like a week before
<Gibsonator21> feb 26th
<UnknownSmurf> err yeah feb*
<UnknownSmurf> I want to say the 18th
<UnknownSmurf> not 100% sure though
<Gibsonator21> im not sure though.. dont remember when i first got put in the tech dept :/
<UnknownSmurf> You keep records of everyones tech trading though?
<UnknownSmurf> If anyone, I was thinking maybe FOK has it
<Gibsonator21> basically.. i download it from the game, but i usually never remove it
<UnknownSmurf> Oh okay sweet
<Gibsonator21> you know what the nation who was getting raided was?
<UnknownSmurf> Lord von Manteuffel
<UnknownSmurf> http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=487838&Extended=1
<Gibsonator21> alright.. he was sending 50 tech to FOK on 2/24, and 50 tech to NG on 3/7
<UnknownSmurf> Does that come with screenies or is that just text records?
[b]<Gibsonator21> also received 3m from FOK on the 7th with the reason of 'techdeal'[/b]
<Gibsonator21> just text records


-- That's the 7th of February.


http://www.fokalliance.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=14211

[quote]To all rulers in the CN community: techsellers, which are participating in techdeals with FOK, are protected by FOK until their aidslots have expired + 1 day extra (since they may start a new techdeal the day the slots expire). An attack on one of our techdealers will get you in a lot of trouble. [b]We suggest you check the aidscreens of your possible techraid victims carefully before declaring war on them.[/b][/quote]

Enough proof for you?



EDIT: More info.

<Gibsonator21> alright, the FOK nation sending him money was Opgefokt, and the one receiving tech was Dirkt
<Gibsonator21> er
<Gibsonator21> hold up
<UnknownSmurf> ok
<Gibsonator21> alright, 50 tech on the 24th, and deal renewed the 7th

Edited April 13, 2012 by Unknown Smurf

[Tick1]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1334358424' post='2952535']
<Gibsonator21> yo
<UnknownSmurf> Hi
<Gibsonator21> was gonna ask the date of the war starting, but Swatch got to it
<UnknownSmurf> Do you ahve records of aid from back then?
<Gibsonator21> gonna check
<Gibsonator21> im pretty sure i do
<UnknownSmurf> Sweet
<UnknownSmurf> End of march, I don't remember exactly
<UnknownSmurf> aid was sent like a week before
<Gibsonator21> feb 26th
<UnknownSmurf> err yeah feb*
<UnknownSmurf> I want to say the 18th
<UnknownSmurf> not 100% sure though
<Gibsonator21> im not sure though.. dont remember when i first got put in the tech dept :/
<UnknownSmurf> You keep records of everyones tech trading though?
<UnknownSmurf> If anyone, I was thinking maybe FOK has it
<Gibsonator21> basically.. i download it from the game, but i usually never remove it
<UnknownSmurf> Oh okay sweet
<Gibsonator21> you know what the nation who was getting raided was?
<UnknownSmurf> Lord von Manteuffel
<UnknownSmurf> http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=487838&Extended=1
<Gibsonator21> alright.. he was sending 50 tech to FOK on 2/24, and 50 tech to NG on 3/7
<UnknownSmurf> Does that come with screenies or is that just text records?
[b]<Gibsonator21> also received 3m from FOK on the 7th with the reason of 'techdeal'[/b]
<Gibsonator21> just text records


-- That's the 7th of February.


http://www.fokalliance.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=14211
[/quote]

Congratulations you just proved that aid was sent out before the tech raids.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Tick1

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Tick1' timestamp='1334358484' post='2952538']
Congratulations you just proved that aid was sent out before the tech raids.
[/quote]
Although as with any single slot tech deal, he was obligated to send the tech after receiving the aid, "he was sending 50 tech to FOK on 2/24, and 50 tech to NG on 3/7".

So GOONS raided him while he in the middle of deals with FOK and NG which they had already paid for and he was still sending tech for.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Tick1' timestamp='1334358484' post='2952538']
Congratulations you just proved that aid was sent out before the tech raids.
[/quote]

..No. As methrage pointed out. It proves that he was raided during the tech deal which means GOONS was raiding FOK or NGs tech.. and mongols defended it and is now being attacked by FOK+NG


EDIT: Changed smilie.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Unknown Smurf

[Tick1]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1334359517' post='2952546']
..No. As methrage pointed out. It proves that he was raided during the tech deal which means GOONS was raiding FOK or NGs tech.. and mongols defended it and is now being attacked by FOK+NG


EDIT: Changed smilie.
[/quote]


Yeah, I don't follow. What are you guys trying to prove?

[death from above 82]

[quote name='Tick1' timestamp='1334357824' post='2952527']
Based on the current tech deals you'll notice that;
Coffee Shock renewed on 03/29/12 meaning that he would have been sending out 3 million on 02/27/12
Dirkt renewed on 03/27/12 meaning that he would have been sending out 3 million on 02/25/12

This is assuming neither parties had been late in renewing. That also being said means these tech deals would have been 5-8 days after the raids had expired. That being said it is also possible that the tech deals had extended out further than that which I'm not denying. I'm merely proving that your last edit lines up with the renewal date of their tech deals.
[/quote]

my post on the 27 shows 50 tech from both ng and fok sent on the 24th- not money


edit disregard point already made- i took a lunch break

Edited April 13, 2012 by death from above 82

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Tick1' timestamp='1334359659' post='2952548']
Yeah, I don't follow. What are you guys trying to prove?
[/quote]
What are you trying to prove is a better question? So far nothing you have said really makes sense or proves anything. It seemed like you were trying to prove the nation wasn't doing tech deals with FOK/NG when it got raided by pointing out when the aid was sent, but that was shown to not prove him wrong about the tech deals being in progress when the nation was raided.

[Zoomzoomzoom]

I'm almost positive I can talk for Coffee Shock and say he literally does not give a !@#$ if his tech deal went sour because of this conflict.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Y'all sure manage to say a lot in a short time here. I really dont have much to say, it's not my fight, but it is so funny I cant resist a comment or two.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334319507' post='2952105']
Actually it's my pride and self respect that prevents me from just sawing off the situation and giving them white peace.

...

Oh believe me, we're trying. The failure of peace can be laid at Kaskus' feet alone.
[/quote]

We're obviously going to see this from different points of view but even so, cant you see that you appear to be contradicting yourself? If you are unwilling to 'saw off' the situation and give peace, after launching the war in the first place, then how can it be said that the failure of peace is their fault alone?

I mean, I could see using that language if they had started this, if they were pursuing you demanding reps or some other terms or conditions... but no. You actually attacked them, remember?

[quote name='Laslo Kenez' timestamp='1334323195' post='2952131']
"Wonders or not" - actually, that whole statistical set-up basically ignores every single advantage Kaskus seemed to have in that range, and moreover suggests that any amount of aid can really do anything for a lower-tier nation that's battling away at a well stocked former-upper tier nation beyond artificially keep them in the fight. I've been there. I'm sure GOONS could always have been more effective, but by and large getting nuked every other day by some guy with 1k infra and 4k tech and a few hundred million in the bank is a task without foreseeable end.
[/quote]

Maybe I lost the thread, but I am pretty sure we were talking about ability to keep the 'nesians [i]staggered[/i]. I dont care how well stocked and upper-tier your nation is, all I need is two loyal soldiers with nations barely in range to keep you staggered and unable to declare again forever, so what was your point again?

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1334327876' post='2952187']
Sure, you didn't request assistance, but you still had your asses smacked around by Vlad. GOONS are willing to request the assistance against 40 nations whereas you weren't willing to request the assistance against 3.

You're clearly the [i]more honorable[/i] alliance.
[/quote]

I am pretty sure you just proved that GOD is better than GOONS. You better apologise before they get done with Kaskus or you could be next!

[quote name='Courland' timestamp='1334336403' post='2952271']
MONGOLS agrees to pay GOONS 18 million dongs for aiding their raid target, and GOONS agrees to pay MONGOLS 18 million dongs for shoving raiders in all three holes of a protected tech dealer.

WAR OVER.[/quote]

Bzzzt. Makes too much sense. Thank you for playing, try again.

[Tick1]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1334360138' post='2952550']
What are you trying to prove is a better question? So far nothing you have said really makes sense or proves anything. It seemed like you were trying to prove the nation wasn't doing tech deals with FOK/NG when it got raided by pointing out when the aid was sent, but that was shown to not prove him wrong about the tech deals being in progress when the nation was raided.
[/quote]

I'm merely proving that you guys failed to keep accurate records of the events that have taken place. You guys have not given a single screenshot regarding this entire incident. All you have shared are logs and posts that prove absolutely nothing since everything you have shared can be edited simply without going through any effort at all.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1334360162' post='2952552']
I'm almost positive I can talk for Coffee Shock and say he literally does not give a !@#$ if his tech deal went sour because of this conflict.
[/quote]
Can you speak for the rest of Non Grata in that none of you care if your allies mess up your tech deals by raiding those selling to you guys? Why single Coffee Shock out as not caring about his tech dealers?

[Laslo Kenez]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1334357420' post='2952523']
I'd be willing to bet every alliance in CnG wouldn't get into a war like this. Even TLR who are fairly aggressive wouldn't pick a fight to try and who they're tough, and then start losing that fight a little later.
[/quote]

Maybe, but that's why we're GATO and they're GOONS.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Laslo Kenez' timestamp='1334360698' post='2952561']
Maybe, but that's why we're GATO and they're GOONS.
[/quote]

Then I don't think the two situations are comparable at all.

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Tick1' timestamp='1334360338' post='2952554']
I'm merely proving that you guys failed to keep accurate records of the events that have taken place. You guys have not given a single screenshot regarding this entire incident. All you have shared are logs and posts that prove absolutely nothing since everything you have shared can be edited simply without going through any effort at all.
[/quote]
Lol. Yeah, no. Not edited. Sorry.

[Ruler with Plan X]

[quote name='Tick1' timestamp='1334359659' post='2952548']
Yeah, I don't follow. What are you guys trying to prove?
[/quote]
Is a tech deal done after the money is sent or after the buyer has received their tech? If the tech dealer received money on the 7th of February then you would expect the deal to last until the ~27th when the tech payment expires and the deal can be renewed. GOONS raided on the 16th when the target was scheduled to send tech to GOONS' blocmates the next day (or the day after that, I'm always fuzzy on expiration dates).

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Tick1' timestamp='1334360338' post='2952554']
I'm merely proving that you guys failed to keep accurate records of the events that have taken place. You guys have not given a single screenshot regarding this entire incident. All you have shared are logs and posts that prove absolutely nothing since everything you have shared can be edited simply without going through any effort at all.
[/quote]

Even if they had a million screen shots they could have edited all of them too. That's really a dumb argument.

So technically, Non Grata and FOK aided someone at war with GOONS. This is interesting. How long will it be until all of PB has to be called in to take on NG and FOK?

Edited April 13, 2012 by Omniscient1

[Aeros]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1334361228' post='2952566']
Even if they had a million screen shots they could have edited all of them too. That's really a dumb argument.

So technically, Non Grata and FOK aided someone at war with GOONS. This is interesting. How long will it be until all of PB has to be called in to take on NG and FOK?
[/quote]

Never, because unlike Kaskus/Mongol, NG and FOK have enough of a power base to look threatening. We can throw the "Valid CB" argument all we want, but everyone here knows if a CB is wanted an alliance can just make it up ala VE and MK saving the world from bad forum posting. As in all wars of choice, GOONS was given what they thought was a great opportunity to have a little fun with some small unaligned alliances and it blew up in their face.

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1334360512' post='2952558']
Can you speak for the rest of Non Grata in that none of you care if your allies mess up your tech deals by raiding those selling to you guys? Why single Coffee Shock out as not caring about his tech dealers?
[/quote]

Cause unlike you I actually know members of my alliance. Especially ones like Coffee Shock who I've played with for the last two-three years. If the guy really cared about his tech sellers and their reliability he wouldn't have gone from 8k tech years ago to the level he's at now.

You'll find the majority of the NG membership are generally laid back. Otherwise they would not fit in.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Tick1' timestamp='1334360338' post='2952554']
I'm merely proving that you guys failed to keep accurate records of the events that have taken place. You guys have not given a single screenshot regarding this entire incident. All you have shared are logs and posts that prove absolutely nothing since everything you have shared can be edited simply without going through any effort at all.
[/quote]

That's because when this (your) point was originally brought up (and refuted) the aid offers were still on his nation page. All we had to do was link to the nation.

We didn't think you would bring up an old, already resolved, argument. But I guess I have too much faith in you.

[Tick1]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1334360991' post='2952564']
Lol. Yeah, no. Not edited. Sorry.
[/quote]

So because none of you apparently know how to take a screen shot on your computers I should take everything you guys say as fact? Seems kind if ignorant from my perspective.

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1334361649' post='2952570']
That's because when this (your) point was originally brought up (and refuted) the aid offers were still on his nation page. All we had to do was link to the nation.

We didn't think you would bring up an old, already resolved, argument. But I guess I have too much faith in you.
[/quote]

You haven't refuted anything you've only proven that FOK and NG had been in a tech deal with a nation GOONS had been raiding. You didn't prove that your Mongols nation was in a tech deal with this nation.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Tick1