sigelopisan Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1334330738' post='2952217'] If you guys weren't enabling GOONS to keep continuing this, it would be over. Kaskus and Mongols have been more than willing to peace out, they just don't want to be extorted in the process. Without you guys assisting GOONS in continuing this indefinitly, they would realize its time to cut their losses rather than continue trying to extract big reps here. [/quote] I think this is the most rational speculation on what's going on here As GOONS want to stand up for their principle, people must understand that Kaskus wont left friends behind. PB standing in between and all you get is burning infra. My question left, how many infra PB willing to burn before PB end up like GOONS and UMBRELLA who declare war but at the end of the day think, oh crap, this is stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laslo Kenez Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1334331969' post='2952224'] Right, annnnny minute now. The problem with this argument is that it has already been made for a month. Let's call in Umbrella. Let's call in MK. Now let's toss some Fok in. Ooh, here's some VE. This DoW doesn't change anything except formalities. GOONS has already been begging for mercenaries in every court, and Kaskus has already been dealing with them. Meanwhile, GOONS allies--Umbrella vocally--are getting sick of this !@#$, while Kaskus' allies just sent in millions. [/quote] Except this is a very basic reading of something pretty basic to begin with. MK were in part-time, and Umbrella had few targets in range. Neither alliance answered the fundamental problem Kaskus and Mongols combined posed to GOONS (although MK would have been able to). I'm sure these "mercenaries" (all of them allied to GOONS via a bloc, classic mercenary behaviour) now entering will end the war handily. They probably answer the problem Kaskus pose - if they don't, it'll be worth talking about. I'm sure certain people are dissatisfied, and it's not as if their behaviour has impressed me over a pretty long period of time. But reading the military situation wrong is ridiculous in how blatant it is to smear them, which should really be on the basis of GOONS practices more than this specific move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1334333037' post='2952228'] Again you aren't noticing (or are choosing to ignore) subtle differences. GOONS did nothing wrong by tech raiding and followed their own rules, which we are well aware of. Morally some may have an issue but given that tech raiding is not generally seen as a cb for full scale war tech raiding in itself is not a crime or a defensible act. If the chain of events had ended with the raid peacing out then none of this would have happened. The fact that someone decided to retaliate via sending war aid is what set this chain off. Now they were well within their rights to do that, just like any of these micros that want to take pot shots at GOONS to flex their moralist muscles are, but there will be repercussions. It's hypocritical to say "I'm allowed to do this but you aren't", it isn't hypocritical to say "you've done to me what I've done to you, so I'm going to fight back harder because I'd accept you doing the same to me". There's a difference. [/quote] Welcome to 2012, this isn't about moralism. Both Mongols and Kaskus raid; they're not anti-raider crusaders and they didn't aid the raid target like some bassackwards Freedom of the Seas VE bootlicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='pd73bassman' timestamp='1334288419' post='2951797'] End this already, admit defeat and move on [/quote] What needed to said was said early in the thread...but I'm not entirely sure he meant it in the same way that many on the sidelines are thinking. Enjoy your quagmire one and all and when you all (yes, all) get tired of bleeding infra, shake hands and walk away, whether money is exchanged at the end or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Laslo Kenez' timestamp='1334333444' post='2952232'] I'm sure these "mercenaries" (all of them allied to GOONS via a bloc, classic mercenary behaviour) now entering will end the war handily. [/quote] You keep saying it, but you never say why. GOONS has already brought more force to bear on Kaskus than any micro should be able to deal with. Kaskus has already shown it doesn't matter. Nothing has changed, 800:20 with a formal DoW is not different that 800:20 without a formal DoW. Edited April 13, 2012 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero89 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 You continuously impress me Kaskus .. we will break you though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laslo Kenez Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1334333600' post='2952237'] You keep saying it, but you never say why. GOONS has already brought more force to bear on Kaskus than any micro should be able to deal with. Kaskus has already shown it doesn't matter. Nothing has changed, 800:20 with a formal DoW is not different that 800:20 without a formal DoW. [/quote] It wasn't 800:20 without the formal DoW though, that's just untrue. Now it's 800:20, and it'll be over soon because Kaskus aren't magical. They're obviously good at the war thing, but they're not magical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Laslo Kenez' timestamp='1334333817' post='2952239'] It wasn't 800:20 without the formal DoW though, that's just untrue. Now it's 800:20, and it'll be over soon because Kaskus aren't magical. They're obviously good at the war thing, but they're not magical. [/quote] I hear they have tiger blood and their nukes smell like ginger. Clearly they must scare the piss out of some people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courland Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1334333037' post='2952228'] Again you aren't noticing (or are choosing to ignore) subtle differences. GOONS did nothing wrong by tech raiding and followed their own rules, which we are well aware of. Morally some may have an issue but given that tech raiding is not generally seen as a cb for full scale war tech raiding in itself is not a crime or a defensible act. If the chain of events had ended with the raid peacing out then none of this would have happened. The fact that someone decided to retaliate via sending war aid is what set this chain off. Now they were well within their rights to do that, just like any of these micros that want to take pot shots at GOONS to flex their moralist muscles are, but there will be repercussions. It's hypocritical to say "I'm allowed to do this but you aren't", it isn't hypocritical to say "you've done to me what I've done to you, so I'm going to fight back harder because I'd accept you doing the same to me". There's a difference. [/quote] So you're telling me that GOONS would have sent MONGOLS reps for raiding a protected tech dealer, if only we'd asked? My apologies, good nations of Bob! If only we hadn't been so aggressive in our unjust sending of aid to an 800 infra nation on the receiving end of a 3-on-1 tech raid, and if only we hadn't tried to flex our moralist muscles by trying to avoid war on the Mercy Board with GOONS after they came up with their "tech raids are alliance war" manifesto...then GOONS wouldn't have had to declare war on us, and Bob could have been spared this whole, horrible, MONGOLS-caused war! No, I don't want to press charges, officer. GOONS still loves me. I must've walked into a door. Or something... Edited April 13, 2012 by Courland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1334321521' post='2952114'] Wow, Umbrella and GOONS weren't enough to take on Kaskus and Mongols? Umbrella/GOONS need to learn how to fight, this is getting ridiculous that you guys need to call in all of Pandora's Box for backup against some micros. [/quote] Perhaps you can use your knowledge of the situation to point out which, or perhaps just how many out of which total, Umbrella nations struggled and therefore need to learn how to fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1334333561' post='2952235'] What needed to said was said early in the thread...but I'm not entirely sure he meant it in the same way that many on the sidelines are thinking. Enjoy your quagmire one and all and when you all (yes, all) get tired of bleeding infra, shake hands and walk away, whether money is exchanged at the end or not. [/quote] First CJ and now you. Always funny to see Valhalla come out at times like these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1334326331' post='2952169'] Ah Gre, full of disapproving words, sadly lacking in action. [/quote] Someone buy this man a drink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Courland' timestamp='1334334188' post='2952243'] No, officer, I don't want to press charges. GOONS still loves me. I must've walked into a door. Or something... [/quote] That's my girl, now let's go home and work it out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1334330911' post='2952218'] I thought my post made it clear that I wasn't happy with the course of action that has been taken. Perhaps you should read my words instead of just looking at my AA? [/quote] I'm assuming you hold a good amount of influence in Umbrella, you used to be the leader for a while if I recall correctly (You might still be leader, although I haven't been keeping up with who's leading Umbrella). If you guys want this war to end, there is an easy way to do it. Give GOONS an ultimatum to agree to peace with Kaskus/Mongols without seeking reps, if they refuse they can fight Kaskus/Mongols on their own to try getting their blood money. You guys making sure GOONS don't need to pay reps or surrender is providing more than enough help to them considering they got themselves into this mess, but GOONS can't expect you guys to keep supporting them in seeking to gain something from the war that your own alliance wouldn't seek if you were in their position. Edited April 13, 2012 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unpronounced Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334319507' post='2952105'] Actually it's my pride and self respect that prevents me from just sawing off the situation and giving them white peace. That and barring some of the more respectable members, they're a bunch of children. A major problem for us has been growth because, well, we love to fight, and our nations aren't aged as old as the median ages of most alliance, so we're somewhat at a permanent structural disadvantage, the only way to correct would be to sit out of major conflicts, and what would that make us if we did? Oh believe me, we're trying. The failure of peace can be laid at Kaskus' feet alone. [/quote] I don't understand. Do GOONS like to fight or not? If you like to fight, why call in allies to end this war quickly? Maybe GOONS just like to fight easy wars (or easy raids)? Best of luck to my Indonesian brothers at Kaskus and their allies! Show them what a real tough alliance is about! Hajar terus Mas Bro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1334333444' post='2952233'] Welcome to 2012, this isn't about moralism. Both Mongols and Kaskus raid; they're not anti-raider crusaders and they didn't aid the raid target like some bassackwards Freedom of the Seas VE bootlicker. [/quote] Raiding and moralism aren't the same thing, even a raiding alliance may want to stand up to the evil GOONS in order to push some other moralist agenda. Oh, and this is the OWF. It's always about moralism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellBade Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) GOONS, do us all a favor and just disband already. kthxbai. Edited April 13, 2012 by MitchellBade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurunin Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1334334564' post='2952254'] Raiding and moralism aren't the same thing, even a raiding alliance may want to stand up to the evil GOONS in order to push some other moralist agenda. Oh, and this is the OWF. It's always about moralism. [/quote] probly more like other raiding alliances are tired of the stain GOONs gives to the idea of raiding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1334328588' post='2952192'] My member was in the wrong so we paid a whopping 3 million. Why didnt mongols get the same deal? [/quote] They [I]did[/I] get the same deal, before the war started. Equal amount of reps to aid sent to targets. They refused. That's why the war began in the first place. [quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1334329511' post='2952202'] It's ridiculous that it's gotten to this point, honestly this is stupid and both sides in this are behaving like pigheaded morons (yeah I said both) Wrap it up already. [/quote] That's what we've been trying to do, we even tried to take their pathetic offer of 150m, but they refused. So stop putting this !@#$ on us. Edited April 13, 2012 by Sardonic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote=Sardonic]A major problem for us has been growth because, well, we love to fight, and our nations aren't aged as old as the median ages of most alliance, so we're somewhat at a permanent structural disadvantage, the only way to correct would be to sit out of major conflicts, and what would that make us if we did?[/quote] You guys are at a permanent disadvantage because you guys don't know how to nation build and teach your nations to constantly raid rather than use effective means to build up their nations. Umbrella could probably teach you how its done, but keeping all your nations constantly in the tech selling NS range probably serves them well. Umbrella built themselves up into a Citadel quality, high Avg NS alliance rather quickly. Its kind of pathetic when I can be ZIed, rebuild to 6k infra, ZIed again, rebuild to 6k infra, then I still see nations I fought back when I was around ZI fighting you guys still just around 1k-2k infra without ever building up past that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander shepard Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Damn Kaskus is a force to reckoned with. Well done to holding your own with Mongols and beaten Goons against overwhelming odds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1334334564' post='2952254'] Raiding and moralism aren't the same thing, even a raiding alliance may want to stand up to the evil GOONS in order to push some other moralist agenda. Oh, and this is the OWF. It's always about moralism. [/quote] The nebulous ~moralist agenda~ Oogie boogie boogie! More powerful than The Coven, less popular than /b/ Edited April 13, 2012 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courland Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1334334346' post='2952249'] That's my girl, now let's go home and work it out... [/quote] Stop hitting me, and I'll stop being hit? *cringes* Edited April 13, 2012 by Courland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Courland' timestamp='1334334188' post='2952243'] So you're telling me that GOONS would have sent MONGOLS reps for raiding a protected tech dealer, if only we'd asked? [/quote] Depends on how obvious it was said tech dealer was protected, eg, bio protection and all. You could have indeed come away with reps. That's not what you did though, you doubled down and sent war aid to the targets rather than working to get the wars peaced out like civilized alliances do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334335080' post='2952257'] That's what we've been trying to do, we even tried to take their pathetic offer of 150m, but they refused. So stop putting this !@#$ on us. [/quote] Look, you declared the war, you can un-declare it. Own it. Edited April 13, 2012 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.