Dr William Westcher Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 [quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1332453302' post='2941764'] And what, is that, exactly? I don't get this ivory tower, anti-goons line of thinking coming from a bunch of raiders. I think more people would be inclined to join you if you didn't look so hypocritical, judging by the Mongol blood on both of our hands. At least ours came after diplomacy failed and no options remained. Yours was just good old fashioned bushwhacking of someone who couldn't defend themselves against you. The truth is, we're a convenient target for all this, just like you saw Mongols. Of all the alliances that tech raid, we're probably the softest; and it's something a dozen alliances and more have tried to take advantage of before. And now you grandstand like you're entering some great crusade for good when in reality, you're just taking the easy route. You're doing something alright, and from where I'm sitting, it's trying to talk your way out of a disastrous situation. [/quote] Might I just add- on a totally un-related note I have been extremely pleased with the level of intelligence inherent in all of your posts. It makes me wonder whether the AA "GOONS" is more Ironic than Factual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) [quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1332429460' post='2941611'] [i]A member of GOONS chose to attack a free nation, who happened to be a friend of Mongols.[/i] Member of Mongols chose to help the poor nation with a little drop of aid. The GOONS, backed by their impressive military forces, chose to demand excessive reparation for "aiding the raid victim", or else. Mongols chose else, GOONS chose to attack, and Kaskus chose to defend. [/quote] For me this is the key part to understanding why this war is going on and why it should be GOONS paying reps if anyone is going to. GOONS got their attacks in on these alliances and individuals they pulled into war, so any other reasonable alliance would let this go at white peace considering who started it. However for GOONS there is no right and wrong, only what they can get away with. Thus even if they grind an alliance down to nearly nothing (thanks to all the aid they get from Doom House), they are unwilling to let it go at that and feel a need to try extracting reps from those who didn't do anything deserving of needing to pay reps or can even afford it after fighting Doom House for however long they've been at it. Edited March 22, 2012 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ira Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 [quote name='Manis B' timestamp='1332429991' post='2941616'] An honorable post [/quote] I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) [quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1332453302' post='2941764'] And what, is that, exactly? I don't get this ivory tower, anti-goons line of thinking coming from a bunch of raiders. I think more people would be inclined to join you if you didn't look so hypocritical, judging by the Mongol blood on both of our hands. At least ours came after diplomacy failed and no options remained. Yours was just good old fashioned bushwhacking of someone who couldn't defend themselves against you. The truth is, we're a convenient target for all this, just like you saw Mongols. Of all the alliances that tech raid, we're probably the softest; and it's something a dozen alliances and more have tried to take advantage of before. And now you grandstand like you're entering some great crusade for good when in reality, you're just taking the easy route. You're doing something alright, and from where I'm sitting, it's trying to talk your way out of a disastrous situation. [/quote] Very true my friend - this is a wonderful illustration of the hypocrisy presented by the OP. Perhaps an appeal like the one presented by mssr tan & co. could inspire action if it had been delivered by a mob with a little more credibility than these rascals. Edited March 22, 2012 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWilliam Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Dr William Westcher' timestamp='1332454291' post='2941771'] I have been extremely pleased with the level of intelligence inherent in all of your posts. It makes me wonder whether the AA "GOONS" is more Ironic than Factual. [/quote] Pot, meet kettle. Please tell me this was intentional. [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1332454735' post='2941778'] For me this is the key part to understanding why this war is going on and why it should be GOONS paying reps if anyone is going to. GOONS got their attacks in on these alliances and individuals they pulled into war, so any other reasonable alliance would let this go at white peace considering who started it. [/quote] This makes no sense. Are you even trying? The situation that sparked this conflict was the aiding of an enemy combatant of ours. Mongols wasn't attacked out of the blue (they were given the opportunity to pay reparations and set things straight after all), they were attacked because of their actions and because of their refusal to resolve them. And that much is fact. [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1332454735' post='2941778'] However for GOONS there is no right and wrong, only what they can get away with. Thus even if they grind an alliance down to nearly nothing (thanks to all the aid they get from Doom House), they are unwilling to let it go at that and feel a need to try extracting reps from those who didn't do anything deserving of needing to pay reps or can even afford it after fighting Doom House for however long they've been at it. [/quote] Alternately, and I realize this is a stretch for you given your GOONSrage blinders, we're principled individuals (that are by no means inherently wrong in what we do simply because you don't understand or agree with it) that prefer to take a consistent approach to our dealings. You aid our combatants, you pay reps (which will be multiplied if *you* drag this out into an 'expanded' conflict). You declare war on us, you pay reps. Simple as that really. Edited March 22, 2012 by SirWilliam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 [quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1332459469' post='2941832'] Alternately, and I realize this is a stretch for you given your GOONSrage blinders, we're principled individuals (that are by no means inherently wrong in what we do simply because you don't understand or agree with it) that prefer to take a consistent approach to our dealings. You aid our combatants, you pay reps (which will be multiplied if *you* drag this out into an 'expanded' conflict). You declare war on us, you pay reps. Simple as that really. [/quote] You guys will tech deal and receive aid while fighting, yet you expect those you attack to not do that and want massive reps in response if someone other than you does. That you consistently ask reps is nothing to be proud of. You guys don't follow the golden rule or NAP, you are little more than thieves benefiting from your strong allies. To say you are principled because you consistently like to steal from others for doing the same thing you guys always do is insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swatch0 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1332432684' post='2941646'] Oh I got your point. You're trying to rally people against us. Good luck with that. [/quote] Yep, you did miss the point of the post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigelopisan Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I'm not sure why Goons is complaining about this thread. The more the merrier my friend. More nukes flying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWilliam Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1332460789' post='2941845'] You guys will tech deal and receive aid while fighting, yet you expect those you attack to not do that and want massive reps in response if someone other than you does. That you consistently ask reps is nothing to be proud of. You guys don't follow the golden rule or NAP, you are little more than thieves benefiting from your strong allies. To say you are principled because you consistently like to steal from others for doing the same thing you guys always do is insane. [/quote] I thank you for at least ceding that this war was a result of Mongols' actions and that there's no way you can justify GOONS being the ones needing to pay reparations. That said, yes, we tech deal and send and receive aid when in alliance war. As most alliances do. Individual members do not aid enemy combatants (or raid targets) of other alliances however (and if it's done we pay up). There's a fundamental difference there, such that the situations are not the least bit comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='sigelopisan' timestamp='1332461553' post='2941854'] I'm not sure why Goons is complaining about this thread. The more the merrier my friend. More nukes flying [/quote] I don't see any goons complaining about this thread - in fact you can feel free to continue spouting as much nonsense here as you like, we don't mind. We reserve the right to call you out on your !@#$%^&* tho', of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swatch0 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1332462257' post='2941860'] I don't see any goons complaining about this thread - in fact you can feel free to continue spouting as much nonsense here as you like, we don't mind. We reserve the right to call you out on your !@#$%^&* tho', of course [/quote] In the form of complaining? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='Swatch0' timestamp='1332462538' post='2941861'] In the form of complaining? [/quote] can you point out these complaints from goons about the thread? I certainly don't see 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1332461954' post='2941857'] I thank you for at least ceding that this war was a result of Mongols' actions and that there's no way you can justify GOONS being the ones needing to pay reparations. That said, yes, we tech deal and send and receive aid when in alliance war. As most alliances do. Individual members do not aid enemy combatants (or raid targets) of other alliances however (and if it's done we pay up). There's a fundamental difference there, such that the situations are not the least bit comparable. [/quote] You guys attacked a nation, unless you have a good reason for attacking them that isn't a good enough reason for you prohibit anyone from sending the nation you're victimizing any aid or doing tech deals with them. You guys have some twisted logic to justify what you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWilliam Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1332464374' post='2941873'] You guys attacked a nation, unless you have a good reason for attacking them that isn't a good enough reason for you prohibit anyone from sending the nation you're victimizing any aid or doing tech deals with them. You guys have some twisted logic to justify what you do. [/quote] We attacked an unprotected, unaligned nation. That's a 100% good enough reason to prohibit anyone from aiding them. That's not twisted, that's conventional, logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Well written post. [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1332430155' post='2941617'] Do we really need a third venue of discussion for this conflict? You are not the first, and certainly will not be the last, to pledge "eternal war" on GOONS. [/quote] I don't see anything in the above that suggests a thing about "eternal war." There's nothing that says "we will never surrender no matter what" - just that the original demands of GOONS (in their opinion) for reps were too high. Perhaps something was said in some other thread or elsewhere about eternal war, but if not there is a difference between fighting and not giving into another alliances specific demands and fighting "eternally." It takes two to tango. Maybe try offering something they would consider a better deal. Edited March 23, 2012 by White Chocolate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ilyani Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I'm sorry that your last thread didn't generate enough back-and-forth arguing, but there was a reason that it did not. This isn't solving anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunhill2071 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 OHH LOOK AT ME !! I FIGHT GOONS, COME HALP!!! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattski133 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='Dr William Westcher' timestamp='1332454291' post='2941771'] Might I just add- on a totally un-related note I have been extremely pleased with the level of intelligence inherent in all of your posts. It makes me wonder whether the AA "GOONS" is more Ironic than Factual. [/quote] Believe it or not, we're people too. I'm not sure why we get the attention we do, considering how bland we are now compared to how things used to run around here. It seems there is a small group of people that simply cannot let go of the fact that we exist. I believe that same small group of people is responsible for convincing the MONGOLS that they had some other option beyond paying $18mil and moving on with a good lesson learned. I spoke with this Bitburg guy for a while when we were fighting and he went from "well, that's not too bad i guess we should end this" on day 2 to "we will not stand for this extortion" on day 3; not exactly language I had come to expect from him. When I saw CoJ members coaching rogues on how to fight us most effectively on the OWF, my theory was more or less confirmed. I don't think Kaskus falls into that group. I think they're just raiders with big egos who think they can do whatever they want. Nothing NEW there. They like to talk about how Non Grata beat them down (such as, the opening line of their Wiki) and that we're not as good; yeah, obviously Non Grata is much larger than us, we sell tech to them. What they don't say is that right now, Non Grata and others are raiding people at a level that isn't even profitable, and Kaskus is content to do nothing about that. In fact, they're content to do nothing about their own raiding policy. Which is why I love that people have come out harumphing Kaskus and MONGOLS in their fight against us, when I think you could easily argue that those two alliances stand for the exact thing our detractors seem to hate about us! I say seem to, because the reason most people seem to dislike GOONS is because they just don't like us. Sorry about the wall of text, but I think that needed to be said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Cyan Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1332432553' post='2941643'] You seem to miss the point of my post, friend. [/quote] I TIHNK POINT OF YOU POST IS INDONESIA AND MONGOLIA SURRENDER TO GONS NOW I SEE POINT IS GOGOGO INDONESIA GO!!! ALSO MONGOLIA. no???? okay!! YOU POINT IS INDONESIA AND MONGOLIA TO KEEP TOUCHING GOON WALL OF CHINA, YES?? okay!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigelopisan Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1332466946' post='2941912'] Believe it or not, we're people too. I'm not sure why we get the attention we do, considering how bland we are now compared to how things used to run around here. It seems there is a small group of people that simply cannot let go of the fact that we exist. I believe that same small group of people is responsible for convincing the MONGOLS that they had some other option beyond paying $18mil and moving on with a good lesson learned. I spoke with this Bitburg guy for a while when we were fighting and he went from "well, that's not too bad i guess we should end this" on day 2 to "we will not stand for this extortion" on day 3; not exactly language I had come to expect from him. When I saw CoJ members coaching rogues on how to fight us most effectively on the OWF, my theory was more or less confirmed. I don't think Kaskus falls into that group. I think they're just raiders with big egos who think they can do whatever they want. Nothing NEW there. They like to talk about how Non Grata beat them down (such as, the opening line of their Wiki) and that we're not as good; yeah, obviously Non Grata is much larger than us, we sell tech to them. What they don't say is that right now, Non Grata and others are raiding people at a level that isn't even profitable, and Kaskus is content to do nothing about that. In fact, they're content to do nothing about their own raiding policy. Which is why I love that people have come out harumphing Kaskus and MONGOLS in their fight against us, when I think you could easily argue that those two alliances stand for the exact thing our detractors seem to hate about us! I say seem to, because the reason most people seem to dislike GOONS is because they just don't like us. Sorry about the wall of text, but I think that needed to be said. [/quote] Join me on making a documentary movie or novel. Hahaha lol.... Gosh,.... goons become so sentimentil while fighting a MICROS.. imagine when they really fight a WAR. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phineas Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1332466946' post='2941912'] Believe it or not, we're people too. I'm not sure why we get the attention we do, considering how bland we are now compared to how things used to run around here. It seems there is a small group of people that simply cannot let go of the fact that we exist. I believe that same small group of people is responsible for convincing the MONGOLS that they had some other option beyond paying $18mil and moving on with a good lesson learned. I spoke with this Bitburg guy for a while when we were fighting and he went from "well, that's not too bad i guess we should end this" on day 2 to "we will not stand for this extortion" on day 3; not exactly language I had come to expect from him. When I saw CoJ members coaching rogues on how to fight us most effectively on the OWF, my theory was more or less confirmed. I don't think Kaskus falls into that group. I think they're just raiders with big egos who think they can do whatever they want. Nothing NEW there. They like to talk about how Non Grata beat them down (such as, the opening line of their Wiki) and that we're not as good; yeah, obviously Non Grata is much larger than us, we sell tech to them. What they don't say is that right now, Non Grata and others are raiding people at a level that isn't even profitable, and Kaskus is content to do nothing about that. In fact, they're content to do nothing about their own raiding policy. Which is why I love that people have come out harumphing Kaskus and MONGOLS in their fight against us, when I think you could easily argue that those two alliances stand for the exact thing our detractors seem to hate about us! I say seem to, because the reason most people seem to dislike GOONS is because they just don't like us. Sorry about the wall of text, but I think that needed to be said. [/quote] Great post, but I think you're showing some bunker thinking here since many raiding alliances also find your alliance's actions here ridiculous. What's it been now? A month of war now... [b][i]for what?[/i][/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swatch0 Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1332465618' post='2941888'] I'm sorry that your last thread didn't generate enough back-and-forth arguing, but there was a reason that it did not. This isn't solving anything. [/quote] Thanks for stating your opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigelopisan Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote name='KingCyan' timestamp='1332468572' post='2941946'] I TIHNK POINT OF YOU POST IS INDONESIA AND MONGOLIA SURRENDER TO GONS NOW I SEE POINT IS GOGOGO INDONESIA GO!!! ALSO MONGOLIA. no???? okay!! YOU POINT IS INDONESIA AND MONGOLIA TO KEEP TOUCHING GOON WALL OF CHINA, YES?? okay!!! [/quote] Becareful on making such statement my friend. Kaskus is not Indonesian based alliance. NEW is. If they consider this is insultment, you are a dead meat. You don't want to start a global war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefspari Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Oh hey, I was just thinking we needed another thread about the same topic where people say the same things. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL12.jpg[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigelopisan Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 go ahead... 100 tech if you can start a good thread as this thread made by TAN..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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