GOONS defending the great wall

[Timberland]

[quote name='Electron Sponge' timestamp='1330411578' post='2929829']
You're boring and unoriginal
[/quote]

just like dancing on graves or something, right ?

I can't hear you I have my tap dancing shoes on

Edited February 28, 2012 by Timberland

[r00tn00b]

[quote name='lord bitburg' timestamp='1330411966' post='2929831']
Who cares who did what? they have us out numbered 200 to 20, but their 200 have 800 nukes, and our 20 have 200 nukes and a target rich enviroment, wohoo yahoo, I love the glow of nuke in the AM. We love being surrounder and outnumbered. YOU on the sidelines, quiet you can hear the nukes cooking off, If you listen.

YOU CARES game on
[/quote]
yeah but with our alliance we have people waiting in the wing with a fresh stock waiting to be let loose. you have....kaskus? you will be spent and done before the first round, while we pound you gently back to the stone age.

OOC:Never stop, you sound delirious and unhinged. do you know what you are typing before it leaves your fingertips or does it spontaneously appear on the magic screen before your eyes.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1330408472' post='2929791']
Seriously dude, the hell?
[/quote]

I'm not sure I see the problem you seem to be having.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Schad' timestamp='1330408010' post='2929785']
It's only contradictory if one assumes that it actually hinges on the definition of "war", rather than the fact that GOONS has the ability to do what they desire these days, and thus can define just about anything as just about anything else.
[/quote]

I can only argue against the case presented to me by the opponent. If they are going to harp on definitions of war and raids then that is what I'll argue against. What you are saying is complete nonsense.

[quote]
Point being that there's a central issue in this and other like threads, and it ain't about consistent exercise of one's internal policies. So why does it inevitably become an argument about such things?
[/quote]

Because that is what politics is about. If you don't like it, don't read it.

[Electron Sponge]

[quote name='Timberland' timestamp='1330412034' post='2929832']
just like dancing on graves or something, right ?
[/quote]
Graves have been danced upon, and everything that was being created when I made that statement has been destroyed. But, yeah, sure, go ahead and gloat 4 years later about some stuff I didn't have anything to do with. It's not like you had anything to do with what went on then or anything since, after all. It's no small feat to exist for the past 5 years and for me to have no clue who you are by the way. My compliments on your complete anonymity. It's like you never did anything remarkable. That in itself is remarkable.

Also hi Tyga

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330412461' post='2929837']
I'm not sure I see the problem you seem to be having.
[/quote]
Must i really editorialize on this? You've passed from 'this is pointless semantics' to 'semantics is everything.' Just struck me as a 'the hell?' moment.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='MitchellBade' timestamp='1330410535' post='2929818']
You read Schatt's topic and still think you're right? Just how bliss is this ignorance that you folks wallow in?
[/quote]
This really resulted in another Schat thread? This is the best Christmas ever.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisyayL5.jpg[/img]

In all seriousness, I feel exactly the same way. When this topic originally came up and we were looking at the fact that we were going to war, I was sitting there looking at the facts. I said to myself "Self, we're in a situation where people blatantly sent a nation at war 3m/50t/2000s packages and then refused to negotiate compensation. We're going to go to war with this incredibly damning evidence. And you know what? People are still going to say we're wrong. I can't wait to see their arguments."
[right][img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-R2.jpg[/img][/right]

It's really quite insane the lengths people go to just to oppose our stance. I quite often wonder to what extremes we could be faced with and still be in the wrong. In fact, I already know the answer. Because we've been DoWed on by alliances in the past who [i][b]literally[/b][/i] have no reason to attack us, and people still supported it. It's hard to take any comments like "you still think you're right?" seriously when I already know that even when we're really, [i][b]really[/b][/i] right, we're still wrong.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L10.jpg[/img]

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='trimm' timestamp='1330409901' post='2929811']
Why don't you go take your air of superiority and go shove it somewhere pal? Argument over my foot. Who the frak put you in charge of deciding when the debate is over?

Last I looked, folks didn't need to be in the same alliance or have a treaty to do something. Moldavi Doctrine for the win and all that?
[/quote]
Yeah and look where that got the NSO/Mongols.

Edit:

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1330411153' post='2929825']
You got it, dude.
[/quote]
Hrrmm, colour me unconvinced. The first of the two options relies on the PF connection, which has some sort of supremacy provision as some of our TOP friends pointed out in Roq's big long thread over in World Affairs. The other route has a non-chaining clause (http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=108890) so I don't see the direct power connection between us and them tbh.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1330412872' post='2929840']
Must i really editorialize on this? You've passed from 'this is pointless semantics' to 'semantics is everything.' Just struck me as a 'the hell?' moment.
[/quote]

No, I wasn't saying my whole argument hinged on semantics about the definition of war. GOONS' did. Therefore, the semantic are pointless but are the crux of your defence against my comments. I hope that helped

Also, hello Mr.Sponge.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Tygaland

[lamuella]

[quote name='Electron Sponge' timestamp='1330411578' post='2929829']
You're boring and unoriginal
[/quote]

Counterpoint: you're Electron Sponge.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1330415907' post='2929870']
Counterpoint: you're Electron Sponge.
[/quote]

Sick burn, bro.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330414271' post='2929855']
No, I wasn't saying my whole argument hinged on semantics about the definition of war. GOONS' did. Therefore, the semantic are pointless but are the crux of your defence against my comments. I hope that helped

Also, hello Mr.Sponge.
[/quote]
I just remember saying the nature of the war was immaterial, I'm really not all that phased about the whole raid/war nonsense. If other people want to go for it (understandable, considering there is absolutely nothing else to be contentious about) then god speed i guess.

[Sephiroth]

One of them aiding a tech raid victim is a horrible reason to go to war, from what you guys have said in the past you don't consider yourselves to be at a state of war with those you tech raid, as you consider them separate things. You guys seem to be pushing your tech raid policy onto others in deciding whoever you attack suddenly can't recieve money, thus you're trying to limit people from being able to tech deal with those you consider unaligned.

Kind of makes all the announcements from Doom House on wanting to protect tech buyers rights with the policies you wanted to shove on everyone seem hypocritical when you deal with those you're tech raiding receiving money like this.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Methrage

[r00tn00b]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1330416742' post='2929879']
One of them aiding a tech raid victim is a horrible reason to go to war, from what you guys have said in the past you don't consider yourselves to be at a state of war with those you tech raid, as you consider them separate things. You guys seem to be pushing your tech raid policy onto others in deciding whoever you attack suddenly can't recieve money, thus you're trying to limit people from being able to tech deal with those you consider unaligned.

Kind of makes all the announcements from Doom House on wanting to protect tech buyers rights with the policies you wanted to shove on everyone seem hypocritical when you deal with those you're tech raiding receiving money like this.
[/quote]
We have never said anything different about how we treat our wars and raids. We acknowledge there is a difference but our policy is that be it war or raid, out side interference from another entity for the sole purpose of helping a target not under their protection by treaty or alliance affiliation is and will always be an act of war against GOONs. We stated that to MONGOL, we gave them rep/mercy terms, they rejected and failed miserably, and this is now where we are.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='r00tn00b' timestamp='1330417079' post='2929883']
We have never said anything different about how we treat our wars and raids. We acknowledge there is a difference but our policy is that be it war or raid, out side interference from another entity for the sole purpose of helping a target not under their protection by treaty or alliance affiliation is and will always be an act of war against GOONs. We stated that to MONGOL, we gave them rep/mercy terms, they rejected and failed miserably, and this is now where we are.
[/quote]
I have a 1,000 word essay I need to write for a much more important reason than CN, yet I've still procrastinated doing it for a week with than less than a week left to do it. I still haven't started it and don't look forward to doing it, if it was for the purpose of getting peace with GOONS I would never get around to writing it. 1,000 words don't write themselves and is much more of a hassle than doing anything in CN should be.

Although if you're going to have your tech raid policy effect others like this, it does make it people who aren't in your alliance's business what your tech raid policy is and whether you follow your own rules.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Methrage

[Sephiroth]

Edit: oops, double post

Edited February 28, 2012 by Methrage

[r00tn00b]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1330417369' post='2929888']
I have a 1,000 word essay I need to write for a much more important reason than CN, yet I've still procrastinated doing it for a week with than less than a week left to do it. I still haven't started it and don't look forward to doing it, if it was for the purpose of getting peace with GOONS I would never get around to writing it. 1,000 words don't wright themselves and is much more hassle than doing anything in CN should be.

Although if you're going to have your tech raid policy effect others like this, it does make it people who aren't in your alliance's business what your tech raid policy is and whether you follow your own rules.
[/quote]

We follow our rules to the T, and if we make a mistake, we pay damages. 1,000 words was an option of 3 options the mongols could have taken, it is not our fault what option they chose. There were easier, more fun options to do.

[nippy]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1330417369' post='2929888']
if it was for the purpose of getting peace with GOONS I would never get around to writing it.
[/quote]

We know. We haven't forgotten the hilarity of your failure[b]s[/b] within our mercy board.

[Avakael]

I see no reason to judge GOONS, as I have often wished that I could enforce an equally zero-tolerance to raids policy myself. Happy hunting.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Avakael' timestamp='1330422347' post='2929909']
I see no reason to judge GOONS, as I have often wished that I could enforce an equally zero-tolerance to raids policy myself. Happy hunting.
[/quote]

Yes, I think we can all get behind GOONS' zero-tolerance policy to raiding.

[berbers]

[quote name='trimm' timestamp='1330408664' post='2929794']
So, if I understand you correctly, this whole war essentially comes down to GOONS saying, "[b]If you fight back in a raid 1 vs 1, ok[/b]. But if you go get help, then we'll come down on you like a bag of hammers, just because we have somehow concluded it is in our best interests to do so."
[/quote]

I believe even if the 1v1 target fights back with nukes, that initiates the dogpile as well. SO your statement is still a bit flawed:

"If you fight back 1v1 with non-nuclear weapons, ok."

[Subcomandante VL]

To echo the sentiments of Schad a few pages back:

All the people from alliances I like have good arguments.

All the people from alliances I don't like have bad arguments.

[nutkase]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1330411153' post='2929825']
You got it, dude.
[/quote]

You are quite far off, if you think PF will just roll with DH and friends.


[quote name='r00tn00b' timestamp='1330412288' post='2929836']
yeah but with our alliance we have people waiting in the wing with a fresh stock waiting to be let loose.
[/quote]

I wonder if GOD thought the same about Vlad.

[Monster]

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1330429044' post='2929940']
You are quite far off, if you think PF will just roll with DH and friends.




I wonder if GOD thought the same about Vlad.
[/quote]

The thing is, for some reason, people are still under this impression. I don't get it, personally.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1330417369' post='2929888']
Although if you're going to have your tech raid policy effect others like this, it does make it people who aren't in your alliance's business what your tech raid policy is and whether you follow your own rules.
[/quote]
Newsflash, [i][b]all[/b][/i] tech raid policies affect other people. You can't raid unpiloted nations. Basically all of the complaints here boil down to this: "Raids aren't wars, and while you can't aid people at war, you can aid people being raided." That's fine if that's your policy, but it's not ours. Never has been, never going to be. The same as the people who try lawyering their way out of our policy about getting reps from alliances that attack us aggressively. Your slanted world-view of semantics and technicalities does not influence our policy.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL3.jpg[/img]

CBs are usually debated pretty hotly for any war. When I was young and naive I thought that there was such a thing as a "pure CB." Something that was so cut and dry that nobody would argue it. Very direct things like declaring a war (roguery), alliance spying, or blatantly aiding fighting nations. But no, I've lived through people justifying each and every one of those actions based on increasingly questionable criteria. In this case, "Aiding warring nations is all right because it's a different [i][b]kind[/b][/i] of war. This time." The most baffling thing is how [i][b]we're[/b][/i] being called inconsistent, when we aren't the ones saying it's okay to aid warring nations sometimes, but not all the time. Well, enjoy that stance, but it's not going to change anything.
[right][img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisfffR6.jpg[/img][/right]