Cataduanes Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='shahman' timestamp='1329800541' post='2924972'] [quote name='King Penchuk' timestamp='1329795727' post='2924942'] While we are being honest, I am Prodigal Chieftan. [/quote] I want this to be true. [/quote] Oh man so do I!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Kaos Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1329795559' post='2924940'] This is weird to me, because I was a huge fan of Grenval but didn't like Vincent Xander much. I was, of course, an IC enemy of both but I thought Grenval's propaganda was absolutely incredible. The connection makes perfect sense now, but I never made it. Plus the GARO incident was probably the crowning achievement of IC trolling during that first few years. These days, when people want to get a rise, they just call people names or attack them. Boring. The incident, and the other crap he was always pulling, was intelligent yet finely crafted to send his target audience into a full out rage mode. So good. [/quote] Grenval always knew exactly how to rake people over the coals. He was a brilliant satirist. His like has never been seen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Controversy Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Chris Kaos' timestamp='1329766384' post='2924668'] No I'm not kidding. I feel five years is long enough to keep the secret at bay. CN may now discuss this revelation at will, for those of you who remember him. [/quote] I suspected this literally the entire time but nobody believed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='deth2munkies' timestamp='1329788806' post='2924890'](also on another note, I see its "jerdge" like "jerj", but I always for some reason mentally move the d and make it "Jderge" like "jay-dirge"...no clue why)[/quote] To go on with the tangent, I don't really remember how I made up this name. I love how it's rare on the Internet (I just now discovered that [url="http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=jerdge"]there was one "Jerdge" moving to the US from Ireland in 1864[/url]. [url="http://mingle2.com/user/view/1413637"]This[/url] is also amazing and I'll totally have to pick him as Avatar, some day! The Internet is crazy...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 This thread makes me feel old as dirt. While I only know the name Grenval from mentions in early history, I was there when VX led GATO, and the name is very familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Styke Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I remember VX. It's been a few years now, but I seem to remember him being forced to resign from the Chairmanship in disgrace after some logs were leaked that proved him to be a rather more insidious character than any of us had surmised. I don't remember exactly what though. He certainly wouldn't have gotten my vote if I'd known he was the two-faced snake he turned out to be. Didn't know Grenval well enough to know weather VX = Grenval is a plausible assertion, though. Edited February 21, 2012 by Olaf Styke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Where is walford and his church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerschbs Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Olaf Styke' timestamp='1329827973' post='2925081'] I remember VX. It's been a few years now, but I seem to remember him being forced to resign from the Chairmanship in disgrace after some logs were leaked that proved him to be a rather more insidious character than any of us had surmised. I don't remember exactly what though. He certainly wouldn't have gotten my vote if I'd known he was the two-faced snake he turned out to be. Didn't know Grenval well enough to know weather VX = Grenval is a plausible assertion, though. [/quote] It really depends on what set of logs you saw, and how much of the background of that post you actually know. Mainly, the screenshot that got released onto the OWF was shopped. There were a couple of really important parts that got removed so that it could be used as proof that GATO was preparing to attack NPO. Most people who remember GW2 know we, and our "side" were in no shape to do that. VX got racked over the fire much harder than he ever deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan King Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1329826129' post='2925071'] This thread makes me feel old as dirt. While I only know the name Grenval from mentions in early history, I was there when VX led GATO, and the name is very familiar. [/quote] Isn't it nice though? Usually discussions about 2006 focus around NAAC, GWI, the Citrus War, and other stuff that happened from the beginning to the time that GATO's forums were taken down. People argue about GW2 an other stuff that happened in late 2006 a lot less often. There's always been an attitude in the community that if you weren't here for GWI, you're a noob. It's nice to have been here long enough to get the references. It's pretty funny seeing Letum around now. I still occasionally catch myself hating on him for going to NPO from GATO but he's been NPO for more than 5 years now so I mentally slap myself and drop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Kaos Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Olaf Styke' timestamp='1329827973' post='2925081'] I remember VX. It's been a few years now, but I seem to remember him being forced to resign from the Chairmanship in disgrace after some logs were leaked that proved him to be a rather more insidious character than any of us had surmised. I don't remember exactly what though. He certainly wouldn't have gotten my vote if I'd known he was the two-faced snake he turned out to be. Didn't know Grenval well enough to know weather VX = Grenval is a plausible assertion, though. [/quote] [quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1329835883' post='2925119'] It really depends on what set of logs you saw, and how much of the background of that post you actually know. Mainly, the screenshot that got released onto the OWF was shopped. There were a couple of really important parts that got removed so that it could be used as proof that GATO was preparing to attack NPO. Most people who remember GW2 know we, and our "side" were in no shape to do that. VX got racked over the fire much harder than he ever deserved. [/quote] You're both very wrong, so allow me to correct you. There are three things that made VX go from hero to zero in the eyes of everyone outside of GATO, although those in GATO knew the truth the whole time. 1. SDRD posted a long winded explanation as to why he left GATO and joined NPO, and included logs showing how Vincent Xander asked SDRD to spy on the NPO. This, frankly, was completely ridiculous and entirely a fabrication. Not only was SDRD's post immaculate in its grammar and orthography (which was entirely out of character, as he was German with a rather poor handle on English), claiming a friend helped him write it (more like Philosopher or USBR wrote it for him), but the logs were [i]complete[/i] fabrications. VX and I didn't trust SDRD at all, and we kept a very close eye on him, and if VX had been in need of someone to spy for him, he'd have asked me. 2. VX had a length discussion with Sir Galahad, then-MoFA of the Legion, about how to approach the NPO problem. There was one line in particular where VX said, "Help me hurt the NPO" or something to that effect, by which he meant politically, with propaganda and PR and NOT militarily. These logs were then posted in the general membership area of the Legion by SG, and were promptly leaked to the CN forums. I still can't believe SG had the audacity and balls to claim that the leak came from our end, when literally two people had seen them in GATO--VX and myself. The NPO decided to take it out of context, assign their own meaning, and attack GATO pretty much out of the blue. Those two things were the CB of GWIII, essentially. 3. At this point, VX had served two consecutive terms as AC and couldn't run for a third, so he went for Congress and became Speaker. For those of you who don't know anything about GATO's governmental system, Congress is the legislative body, and from within their ranks, they elect a Speaker, who is first among equals and the general administrator of Congress. VX took it further than that, though, and pushed the limits of what he could do by inserting himself into the peace negotiations, and took a hardline approach with the NPO's negotiators, while Kevlar (the AC at the time), wanted to go a different route. The end result was that the NPO ridiculed him and essentially destroyed his name, and he decided to leave CN after this because the NPO had ruined his fun. That was basically NPO standard operating procedure back then. They delighted in ruining people and alliances. They had no qualms about doing anything in order to win, and there were a lot of people who tried to be genuinely honest and upstanding in CN who just couldn't keep up with the NPO's practices. For those of you who haven't been around long than, let's say, a few months leading up to Karma, you really can't understand how bad they were. MK and friends have tried to be villains, but there's just nothing like vintage NPO villainry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Grenval sure sucked at this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote=Kaos]That was basically NPO standard operating procedure back then. They delighted in ruining people and alliances. They had no qualms about doing anything in order to win, and there were a lot of people who tried to be genuinely honest and upstanding in CN who just couldn't keep up with the NPO's practices. For those of you who haven't been around long than, let's say, a few months leading up to Karma, you really can't understand how bad they were. MK and friends have tried to be villains, but there's just nothing like vintage NPO villainry.[/quote] Yes. This is absolutely correct. Other than the fact Grenval was "genuinely honest and upstanding" or didn't want to do anything within his power to win. Grenval was just as much of a scumbag as people like me were. I knew him very well. He just happened to lose whilst we happened to win. Big deal, that is the whole difference. If you have access to the old CN forums, check out [url="http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/index.php?showtopic=62670&hl="]this[/url] thread. It was one of the most gratifying moments of my experience in CN. The enemy was humbled, defeated and drowning in self pity and sorrow. That was Grenval's last moment . To the end, he refused to accept that defeat was [i]his [/i]responsibility and [i]his [/i]alone. It was a rewarding moment. I have played CN intermittently since the first Unjust War, which I believe was the end of an era - the end of whatever useful contribution my generation had to give to this game. Since then, I have been on the losing side pretty much every time. I blame no one but myself. My inconsistency, my inability to shoulder on and adapt to the changes in the game put me in the place I am now. This applies to all those I consider "my crew", scattered and inactive as we are. The cadre that had been defeated countless times by our hand learned their lessons, fought and rose to power. Congratulations to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 How did Chris Kaos get a hold of my plans? Preempted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Somehow I think I knew that. But heh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerschbs Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Chris Kaos' timestamp='1329839261' post='2925137'] You're both very wrong, so allow me to correct you. There are three things that made VX go from hero to zero in the eyes of everyone outside of GATO, although those in GATO knew the truth the whole time. [/quote] I was referring to the screenshots of VX's and Dewsos speeches to the GA. While I can no longer remember the full speech, it was the "I tried to appease and work with NPO but got shot down. Now I want nothing to do with them politically speech." Someone altered either VX's or Dewsos's posts and removed the sections were they didn't want to hurt NPO militarily, but oppose them politically. However, that was a long time ago, so I may be mixing up some of the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1329837955' post='2925127'] Isn't it nice though? Usually discussions about 2006 focus around NAAC, GWI, the Citrus War, and other stuff that happened from the beginning to the time that GATO's forums were taken down. People argue about GW2 an other stuff that happened in late 2006 a lot less often. There's always been an attitude in the community that if you weren't here for GWI, you're a noob. It's nice to have been here long enough to get the references. It's pretty funny seeing Letum around now. I still occasionally catch myself hating on him for going to NPO from GATO but he's been NPO for more than 5 years now so I mentally slap myself and drop it. [/quote] Indeed. It is quite nice. Though I came in just after GWII concluded. Followed GWIII intently, and that could be what got me so addicted. Those were fun times, even just to watch. And yeah, I hear you on being caught up on silly things from the past, ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steodonn Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1329837955' post='2925127'] Isn't it nice though? Usually discussions about 2006 focus around NAAC, GWI, the Citrus War, and other stuff that happened from the beginning to the time that GATO's forums were taken down. People argue about GW2 an other stuff that happened in late 2006 a lot less often. There's always been an attitude in the community that if you weren't here for GWI, you're a noob. It's nice to have been here long enough to get the references. It's pretty funny seeing Letum around now. I still occasionally catch myself hating on him for going to NPO from GATO but he's been NPO for more than 5 years now so I mentally slap myself and drop it. [/quote] Finally a post that makes me feel abit younger. I joined late 2006 . I remember Grenval but had no idea who Vincent Xander was until I read the thread. Amazing the names you end up remembering Edited February 21, 2012 by steodonn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sci Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Goodness this takes me back. The original GARO post left many of us in GATO actually agreeing with him in private while also trying to hold our breath hoping that we could justify that he didn't speak for the alliance because he was the Minister of Domestic Affairs and therefore had no foreign policy power. Interesting that the same person would go from using a picture of Churchill as his avatar to Abraham Lincoln. He must have had something for great leaders of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippy Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 wtf is dat french Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Kaos Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Mussolandia' timestamp='1329839378' post='2925140'] Grenval sure sucked at this game [/quote] Apparently you do too. [quote name='Sir Sci' timestamp='1329848065' post='2925177']Interesting that the same person would go from using a picture of Churchill as his avatar to Abraham Lincoln. He must have had something for great leaders of the past.[/quote] He actually worried about using Abe as his avatar for this exact reason. He thought that the black and white image of a great historical leader might make people connect the dots. Of course, his personality as VX was so drastically different than that of Grenval, no one ever put things together. Well, that's not strictly true, but the three who figured it out had access to things most people didn't (the GATO forums admin panel). While I had scrubbed the forums of any link between the two, Hungchang had checked the IPs against each other right as VX joined, which was before he moved and switched IPs, but when he came to me about it, I dissuaded him of the notion and he apparently was satisfied with my explanation (which was that they must live reasonably close together), and then promptly went about erasing the links. Some months later, something tipped him, Brotherlouie27 and jsims8 off and they went and poked their noses into things, and Hung checked the admin logs and saw what I'd done and the three jerks confronted me about it. So we caved and told them, and they joined our little cadre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHiott Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1329774950' post='2924766'] prepare to be annihilated gato [/quote] Roll GATO for this absurdity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerschbs Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='MrHiott' timestamp='1329856875' post='2925228'] Roll GATO for this absurdity. [/quote] I agree, the !@#$%^&*! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 [quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1329860620' post='2925246'] I agree, the !@#$%^&*! [/quote] Me too, GATO are well overdue their traditional beatdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 [quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1329841573' post='2925158'] I was referring to the screenshots of VX's and Dewsos speeches to the GA. While I can no longer remember the full speech, it was the "I tried to appease and work with NPO but got shot down. Now I want nothing to do with them politically speech." Someone altered either VX's or Dewsos's posts and removed the sections were they didn't want to hurt NPO militarily, but oppose them politically. However, that was a long time ago, so I may be mixing up some of the details. [/quote] The key photochop was changing "I am not calling for war" to "I am calling for war" in relation to helping LUE (then under surrender terms). Dewsos hadn't the spine to ever call for war... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerschbs Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 [quote name='hammer' timestamp='1329869961' post='2925305'] The key photochop was changing "I am not calling for war" to "I am calling for war" in relation to helping LUE (then under surrender terms). Dewsos hadn't the spine to ever call for war... [/quote] Hah, I'm not crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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