Proof of Allegations

[Brehon]

Phrased what poorly, I missed something there. And an out for what? Dropping a log? Nah, you misunderstand... I want you to drop your logs. It would be a terribly thing if you were to drop to the level of grandstanding vs just going through a rough time.

[brucemania]

Acronym Definition
ROQ - Return on Quality

hmmm might explain some of the posting here

[Captain Flinders]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1329427272' post='2922005']
Sorry Weiss, but after fighting you guys I dont really have much negative to say, I enjoyed the war too much.
[/quote]
Ours was far, far too short. Completely unsatisfying. We need to do it again sometime.

[Franz Ferdinand]

[quote name='Blacky' timestamp='1329431244' post='2922052']
The following seems to work:
Point out where he is contradicting himself or working against his stated interests, refuse to be apart of his [i]army[/i], point out that his vendetta is his own, or literally do nothing but defend yourself on your own radio show to some smug imbecile calling you a liar.
[/quote]
It's a shame that Roquentin doesn't follow the one true doctrine, [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=93329"]Franzism[/url]. I'm sure that he will drop his claims in an instant, and under my watchful eye, become a productive member of society rather than follow a path of self-destruction and fallacy.

[Monster]

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1329432479' post='2922072']
Phrased what poorly, I missed something there. And an out for what? Dropping a log? Nah, you misunderstand... I want you to drop your logs. It would be a terribly thing if you were to drop to the level of grandstanding vs just going through a rough time.
[/quote]

But why Brehon? What purpose does it serve you? I didn't make it lightly. It was an aside and it wasn't me driving an agenda with it.

I realize I'm not going to get a lot of support out here, but people have come forward in private.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Roquentin

[Letum]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329432154' post='2922068']
What reason do I have to trust you, Letum?
[/quote]

You don't need to trust people to listen to their advice. Some of the best ideas I've received are from people who were my enemies. You're supposed to examine their logic and see what you can glean from it, rather than dismissing it because it is contradictory to your opinion.

In fact, just learning how to *listen* (as in: receive, understand and consider the message) is a great skill, and not only in politics.

[Brehon]

Actually you weren't kicked for calling me a liar, if I was going to do that I would have the moment you said it. You were kicked off for starting to rehash what you already said you didn't want to talk about, then turned into more complaining. You attacked, got countered on, retreated then tried to get all qq about it. It was enough.

If you would like to go again, I can simply tell you this, I wont even raise my voice or swear. If you felt some great injustice was done in me cutting you off. You are also welcome to respond to my closing comments about you.

Why? Why not.. its was great radio and the largest audience to date.

Make no mistake, I am not saying my response to you calling me a liar was a complete act (it wasn't), but I wasn't nearly as pissed as the persona was. I also and directly do not retract anything I said, because the truth in them 100% remains (speaking of the things I said after you were cut off).

[Monster]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1329432770' post='2922079']
You don't need to trust people to listen to their advice. Some of the best ideas I've received are from people who were my enemies. You're supposed to examine their logic and see what you can glean from it, rather than dismissing it because it is contradictory to your opinion.

In fact, just learning how to *listen* (as in: receive, understand and consider the message) is a great skill, and not only in politics.
[/quote]

Okay, so one of the things is because I usually bite back when someone attacks Sparta's military competence or something else, that I shouldn't and that it's hurting my cause. I don't really agree and it hasn't gotten in the way of any initiatives I'm pursuing. NoR's not going to cancel on MK no matter what at this point. Same goes for the rest and it's not going to change their mind even if I let them have a free tug.

It's a persona now? can I adopt that line? I'm just a persona and people can drop the insanity things. I'm just playing a Count of Monte Cristo type character, right?

Because honestly, I'm not a really angry guy OOC. It takes a lot for me to lose my cool IRL I'm pissed IC and I can actually direct my fire.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Roquentin

[Brehon]

Why... I am not afraid of what I say and I will not have people use "I have inside/private/hidden information" as a weapon. That is the move a coward or worse. So if someone has something to say, something to prove, something to show... do it. Do not threaten me with it, be a man and do it. We can then take it from there.

There will always be those that will come to any situation in which the NPO is involved in (this is true for any alliance that creates a very controversial history), to get more flesh or seek justification for whatever. Didn't we just have a great war that proved that? Isn't there one still going on to prove that? The fact some can't let it goes doesn't mean everyone feels that way. I expect on any given day you will find someone that doesn't like me (easy enough) doesn't like NPO (even easier) doesn't like something of the past (the easiest). Take that as you will. To use it or say it like that somehow justifies your anger & empowers your personal justification movement, then I simply feel sorry for you, because in the end such actions are people using you (and you using them). Was this not the same base you worked to form the DH war, through you own admission? Not the first time it has happened to the NPO or a personality of a CN member. If you don't see that... again... I have no choice but to feel sorry for you.

[Monster]

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1329433348' post='2922083']
Why... I am not afraid of what I say and I will not have people use "I have inside/private/hidden information" as a weapon. That is the move a coward or worse. So if someone has something to say, something to prove, something to show... do it. Do not threaten me with it, be a man and do it. We can then take it from there.

There will always be those that will come to any situation in which the NPO is involved in (this is true for any alliance that creates a very controversial history), to get more flesh or seek justification for whatever. Didn't we just have a great war that proved that? Isn't there one still going on to prove that? The fact some can't let it goes doesn't mean everyone feels that way. I expect on any given day you will find someone that doesn't like me (easy enough) doesn't like NPO (even easier) doesn't like something of the past (the easiest). Take that as you will. To use it or say it like that somehow justifies your anger & empowers your personal justification movement, then I simply feel sorry for you, because in the end such actions are people using you (and you using them). Was this not the same base you worked to form the DH war, through you own admission? Not the first time it has happened to the NPO or a personality of a CN member. If you don't see that... again... I have no choice but to feel sorry for you.
[/quote]

I didn't want to threaten you with it at all. You said bring it on to begin with. I didn't really want to talk about it.

It does. I don't really care about "moving on" until the score is settled. I don't let people mess with me to the extent I have been messed with.

I think Chefjoe said it once "But why is the hammer going to be upset by the hand that helps it hit the nail?" So I'm willing to be anyone's tool to get what I want.

I'll just repeat you did not give Ardus this much !@#$ when they went after GOD. That's because you hate GOD as well and you don't hate MK. I was knocked down to get to GOD and yet I still have sins to pay for. I'm willing to pay NSO reps, but this is ridiculous. Ardus enabled LoFN, for instance. He's outright said he's pulled a lot of crap and that he was going to screw over as many people as possible.

MK was allied to GOD when they did the fake war.

I'm kind of glad they didn't fold and we can screw over MK eventually. I wasn't going to be their protector and even VE didn't break off to defend them, so I'm not sure why I was such a huge stumbling block that I had to be dug up and etc.

I gave MK multiple outs of me pulling this. 1337 guy didn't care if I went nuclear. My attempts to refute their accusations about the war decs crap were ignored.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Roquentin

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329426690' post='2921998']
I'm happy FOK has ceased being an NG/MK satellite state. Hail Tromp. I wish he had been around sooner.
[/quote]
I'm just surprised they didn't decide to cease being a satellite state for them sooner, its long been clear that MK hasn't cared much about VE/FOK. Ever since DH was signed its been quite clear that PB has just been around to keep FOK/VE under control, despite MK only caring about either of them to the extent they can control them. Allowing members of a bloc to hold duel membership in other blocs as well is just setting yourself up to be betrayed or used by others, while not being in a strong position yourself.

I'm surprised VE/FOK are still in PB despite it being clear for a while now that the entire bloc has just been a puppet bloc for DH, but there is no reason for PB alliances to go down with MK when the time for MK to get rolled comes along. Although if they don't want to get pulled into the messes MK creates and be a MK satellite state, the alliances in PB who want nothing to do with MK actions are better off leaving the bloc before a war comes where the bloc would force them to fight for MK rather than withdraw from the bloc after the wars already started up.

I think if Umbrella withdrew from DH and PB, FOK/VE withdrew from PB, then an Umbrella, FOK and VE bloc could make a nice bloc together. If XX was cancelled, then some of the members from XX could also make a nice addition in this new bloc assuming everyone joining got rid off all their other bloc memberships. PF will be a successful bloc because they don't allow members to divide their members to only be half loyal to their bloc, then half loyal to an outside bloc.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Methrage

[Monster]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1329435035' post='2922095']
I'm just surprised they didn't decide to cease being a satellite state for them sooner, its long been clear that MK hasn't cared much about VE/FOK. Ever since DH was signed its been quite clear that PB has just been around to keep FOK/VE under control, despite MK only caring about either of them to the extent they can control them. Allowing members of a bloc to hold duel membership in other blocs as well is just setting yourself up to be betrayed or used by others, while not being in a strong position yourself.

I'm surprised VE/FOK are still in PB despite it being clear for a while now that the entire bloc has just been a puppet bloc for DH, but there is no reason for PB alliances to go down with MK when the time for MK to get rolled comes along. Although if they don't want to get pulled into the messes MK creates and be a MK satellite state, the alliances in PB who want nothing to do with MK actions are better off leaving the bloc before a war comes where the bloc would force them to fight for MK rather than withdraw from the bloc after the wars already started up.

I think if Umbrella withdrew from DH and PB, FOK/VE withdrew from PB, then an Umbrella, FOK and VE bloc could make a nice bloc together. If XX was cancelled, then some of the members from XX could also make a nice addition in this new bloc assuming everyone joining got rid off all their other bloc memberships. PF will be a successful bloc because they don't allow members to divide their members to only be half loyal to their bloc, then half loyal to an outside bloc.
[/quote]

Meh, not really. DH was just an arrangement to maintain strong relations with MK because they didn't like VE/iFOK/PC. I regret doing it. I thought about cancelling several times and I regret not dumping Banksy, Babyjesus', and co's !@#$. It could have been done while I was President, but I had a lot of crap going on and I didn't expect them to go after me when I was gone since I had argued their points while I was still around like the TOP-SNAFU thing and Ardus admitted it was because they had eager beavers.

The other ideas are cool.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Roquentin

[Roadie]

[quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1329368600' post='2921525']
At this point anyone who wants to continue to try to press the issue is less outraged at what actually happened, and more trying to push on a personal vendetta that is completely unrelated.
[/quote]

Which is the root of all politics here anyway, isn't it?

[Monster]

[quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1329435426' post='2922098']
Which is the root of all politics here anyway, isn't it?
[/quote]

Yeah, like I said, a personal vendetta is what put them in a powerful position to begin with. They didn't seem to have a problem with it before. Their personal vendetta with Xiph because they saw him as responsible for DT thing which delayed NoR is the reason they hated GOD. And the GOD-GOONS thing, but mostly the former.


I still don't see how MK managed to get involved in RoK's OOC matter and come out better for it. I just don't get it.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Roquentin

[Crymson]

He's living in a fantasy world, and he is a material girl.

[Monster]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1329435647' post='2922100']
He's living in a fantasy world, and he is a material girl.
[/quote]

What fantasy world? I said it's not very hard to perform in a war. So if they go on the offensive, they'll get hurt at least and they can't handle it. They're not militarily adept universally as shown by TPF's experiences against them in DH-NPO. Crymson, are you going to keep denying the truth of the matter in that they used grudges they maintained against me that shouldn't have been to score political points on Umbrella? I cited the most flagrant example on the radio.

I don't like being blamed for Drai's itchy trigger finger.

All I really asked for was an apology. I didn't really want to have to negotiate for it, but they didn't want to give it.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Roquentin

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1329435647' post='2922100']
He's living in a fantasy world, and he is a material girl.
[/quote]
I remember something that hurt unity within Citadel a lot is TOP was overly attached to the current Hegemonic Alliance at the time (NPO) right up until they lost their position of power, hopefully TOP isn't making the same mistake of being overly attached to MK now that you feel powerful allied to them that it causes problems for PF with you guys not wanting to let them go.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='bzelger' timestamp='1329413097' post='2921850']
I was right with you through the first half of this statement, but you lost me in the finale.
[/quote]


Pretty much along the same lines as this guy. Although Bob is alright in that he just has played the game for the other team. Psychophantry is just bad.

[Monster]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1329436156' post='2922107']
Pretty much along the same lines as this guy. Although Bob is alright in that he just has played the game for the other team. Psychophantry is just bad.
[/quote]

Yeah, but people are doing that to me too. He was able to be critical regardless of his position in the web and his suspicion of MK was correct given how far they took the RoK stuff.

I already went down with you and Xiph and people want more blood. I wish such standards had been applied to Grub and Ardus.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Roquentin

[Thrash]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329426092' post='2921992']
It's also more like two, really, since I only really care about MK and NG.
[/quote]

What happened to NPO?

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329436220' post='2922108']
Yeah, but people are doing that to me too. He was able to be critical regardless of his position in the web and his suspicion of MK was correct given how far they took the RoK stuff.

I already went down with you and Xiph and people want more blood. I wish such standards had been applied to Grub and Ardus.
[/quote]

To be fair Ilyani still has attachment to RoK, which is why it interests him. What did you say to me, Arexes? Can take the Ilyani out of RoK, but not the RoK out of Ilyani etc.

Also, I've been a ghoul for sometime, not much blood left in these bones.

But yeah it would be nice for ...."tasting, and of one's own medicine." etc.

Edited February 17, 2012 by IYIyTh

[Monster]

[quote name='Thrash' timestamp='1329437014' post='2922111']
What happened to NPO?
[/quote]

I still dislike Brehon because of his explosion on me and NPO's general bias, but I was never allied to Brehon, really. Do you hate him like he says?

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1329414066' post='2921868']
Do you really want to me to go hard on GOONS? This is what you are asking for at the moment.
[/quote]
Can I ask for this too, please? I like it when you go hard on us.

Edit:

Edited February 17, 2012 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1329437240' post='2922114']
Can I ask for this too, please? I like it when you go hard on us.

Baby.


[/quote]


He should go hard on you............ [i]dry[/i].

Edited February 17, 2012 by Hiro Nakara

[Monster]

Wow, I still don't get why you like to test me when I do make through on threats. Like I said, if I have to keep exploding !@#$, I will. I'd rather win militarily because this is an empty way to win. I always did my best to help GOONS, not like I had to arrange a lot of our aid to you, or anything and I'll do my best to take you out.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Roquentin