The Grand Lodge and it's Treachery

[WileyXero]

Hello everyone here on bobs fat head. I am Xero555 of the nation "The Black Republic". I am a long time memeber of the CN community. I was around when the NPO split, for the citrus war, when \m/ was planet bobs biggest pain in the ars, I was here when the GOONS site was hacked in it was like a gay porn site, I was here in fact just a couple short months after the game itself was developed. I was here for all the origonal chaos, the leraning process of the game and before you could purchase wonders. If you would like to check I do still have my old nation account on the OWF, yoy are more than welcome to search it Ruler: NEWiley Nation:United England and before that I was Hawks22 and one of the founders of an alliance known as the NFL(2nd one) and later the Coalition of Independent Nations. I have played roles as an Diplomat and Ambassador and I have even writen a few of the charters still around CN. With all my time and hard work put into helping this game develope into what it is now I feel some older nation see things just as how I see them. As a rule of thumb older, more effecient nations feel they deserve both respect and protection from youngsters who feel they can do as the please here on CN. And of course they do, why would they not? In there own way they are founders of CN, the engineers who made possible what CN is today.

This all brings me to my main point of discussion, deffective alliances. Now when I say defective I do not mean that they are incapable of building infra, treaties or establishing a Governemtn structure, No I am refearing to there insabordanants, lack of respect, and incitement of propagandha. The main Alliance I would like you all to look at is an alliance known as "The Grand Lodge of Freemasons" (go figure, theres always a mason involved). Obviously just from the name of there alliance I was weary of joining but wanted to be part of a bigger alliance than I usually am but not to big (I like small alliance of no more than 50 nations). Upon the re-roll of my nation I joined the GLoF alliance, looking for protection from raids and alliances, just as most of us do. At no point did I ever ask anything from this alliance, not tech, not aid, not even a friend to talk to. No, what I was intrested in was the brotherhood, and most of you know what I mean by this. When you have been in an alliance so long it becomez like a family. People who act like you, are fun to talk to and will defend you if need be. The Grand Lodge of Freemasons is not this alliance. Upon re-rolling I went allianceless for approx 5 days and on the 6th applied to the Grand Lodge. After nearly a weak I was finally accepted into the alliance, and of course, there first order of buisness, war! Here I am, a new, nearly insignificant nation looking to build up my nation correctly (lets face it, when the game first started none of knew what we were doing, we didnt save up, do tech deals or anything, we went to war) Sadly, the Grand fellas over at GLoF dont see it that way (obviously. The guy trying to give me orders is 1500days old and is a whole 15k NS, maybe even less now.) As a new nation a saw it fit and best for my re-roll to fist gain money through tech deals and be able to build my nation up. Apparently this struck a cord with someone in the office because the response I recieved in return was...well, quite impolite. After recieving the message I made it quite clear I understood the Alliances rules, I told them I would be more than happy to leave if they would not let me remain peaceful(still war mode, I didnt want war but if someone attacked me I was more than willing to fight.) This obviously infiriated the Government furthur, to which there response was threats and propaganda, informing nations not to do tech deals with me, stating they will sabatage any attempt I make at joing another alliance.
In response I notified another member of the government to tell them what the issues at hand were. Stating very clearly the previous converstaion I had, had with the origonal member. His response, though not as insulting, was about as helpful as my previous convo with the Administration. While looking around on the GLoF forum I came across an active post regarding the war, which had multiple member post declaring there dissatisfaction with both the war and the Adminstration. The members of the site also felt that the Administration did not have the best intrest in hand, stating that there war torn nations could not take anymore war or nuclear attacks but that the Government did not care. That they insited they keep fighting. Even if that was not enough, the members also made quite clear there dissatisfaction with the opperations and logistics in which the Adminsration fights there war on saying that the alliance is neglectful, does not give out clear and consice orders, they are late to respond and have no actual leadership. (may be why the guy giving me orders is 4 years older than I am and I could pass his NS today if I wanted).

After the eye full I recieved from reading the forum I notified the Member who has said that he would slandder me if I ever chose to find a new alliance, stating that I would use the forum post as proof of there negligence in the event that they tried to slandder my good name. Well apparently the fella I messaged is just as big of a lier as he is a fool. He saw this as an oppertunity to inform the higher ups than him that I had threatened to Sell GLoF's information.(which is rediculous considering any information I would need I could get as a diplomat) Ive done it. After being messaged and being informed that the nation in question had already begun to slandder me, I dropped the GLoF AA on my own acord willfully and am maintaing the screen shots I took as evidence of the harrasment. Upon leaving the GLoF AA, I was attacked, by of course, GLoF themselfs. Reasoning for was was concluded as "Ghosting" and as anyone knows you cannot be a ghost if and Alliance accepts your application. At the most a rouge maybe, if I had violated the no raid pollicy or attacked one of the members(I did not of course, im not suicidal). As I stated befor I have been using these past 60 days as an opp to do tech deals and gain millions in cash before I build so I can make the infra jump, by the right improvments in order, keep my nation stable and ect. With all that money around its no wonder they wanted to attack me. To be smart, while not in an AA I kept my soldier count at Zero, My tech at Zero and my Tanks, Aircraft ect. In hopes that that I could minimize any raids that may accure while in the process of building money. However, the Admins at glof got cleaver themselfs and found a nation they could use to attack me, now im in a stale mate. If I wish to fight back I have to build, which only opens the path for stronger more developed nations to declare war. And in return if I do not build, I allow the nation im already at war with an easy attack oppertunity. With no soldiers to defend my nation it was easy for the attacking nations to steal 11Million and 100 tech Land and destroy my infra. As you can imagine I messaged the attacking nations telling them to decalre peace send reps to repay what they took plus some(only like a million extra, thats nothing). Obviously the fact that I had set my AA to RIA Applicant did not fase these men over at GLoF, in fact im almost certain its what helped incourage them considering previous threats made to me by GLoF.

So with the above story told and off my chest I do want to pose a few questions, and state some obvious problems.

First question I would like to pose is; What in the world happened to planet bob? I took a 4 month Hiatus to join are services, and not only did I have to come home to my deleted nation(which btw pisses me off. I as an active member since this game came out and still the Administration wont make an exception or even notify me back for that matter) which was 80k NS and rising rapidly.

Second question I have is why is there so much disrespect now. Back when I was around a member was allowed to leave an alliance no consiquences. Now not only am I forced out by ridicule but when I do decide to leave on my accord they have the audacity to lable me a ghost, which happened after I dropped there AA, making it impossible to be a ghost if you dont have there AA anyhow. Not that it would matter considering I can prove my application was accepted.

Last but not least.

Does anyone even care? To me this seems a prime example of why planet bob has declined nearly ten folds in members.

I would really like to hear opinions on this topic. I know alot of older nations out there have incountered similar or even worse problems in the process and I would liek to hear there experience.

So to end all this and sum it up in a nut shell.

The Grand Lodge of Freemasons is a tyranical power hungry mob of children, who both dont understand the game, or care for the needs of there members. They are propaganda inciting lyers who take advatage of weaker nations to use them for war. Not once was I offered help aid or even retribution from there antics.
I strongly recommend to stay away from this alliance if you value your nation or lively hood. I highly doubt that I will recieve any help once so ever from this post, but at the least it will keep members from Joing this alliance and falling victim to its antics. And boy oh boy do a plan on bumping this topic, if I have my way itll never leave the top of this forum.

Thanks for listening planet Bob. To all have a good day.

Signed
Xero555; Revolutionary


EDIT: Decided to add this in as an edit. If you have read this and understand where Im coming from please send me an alliance offer. Right now I am still an RIA(Random Insanity) applicant but to be honest with all the issues at hand my hopes of being accepted aren't very high. Im open to any and all Alliances under 2 conditions, I must remain on the Black Team,(I dont care if your alliance is pink or purple as long as I can stay black) and the alliance needs at least 30 members. Other than that I have organized my own tech deals, my own TC and I am experienced so I won't need any help building. Befor my re-roll I donated 315million in aid to nations in my alliance. Im more than willing to do the same for any of you once Im back on my feet.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Xero555

[Qazzian]

So you joined an alliance who was at war/went to war very soon after, and refused to fight? Sorry, when you join an alliance for protection, there's an expectation that you'll help defend your comrades when they need it as well. It's not just a one way street.

[Mogar]

You're right that we probably aren't going to accept you, having just come out of a losing war, I dont think we want to add members who will take our aid and then abandon us should things get rough again.

[WileyXero]

[quote name='Qazzian' timestamp='1326917367' post='2902280']
So you joined an alliance who was at war/went to war very soon after, and refused to fight? Sorry, when you join an alliance for protection, there's an expectation that you'll help defend your comrades when they need it as well. It's not just a one way street.
[/quote]

Agreed, however asking for a few days to get some money is not. And I made it clear I was more than happy to fight untill the treats rolled in. Tell me, would you fight for an alliance the Threatens you into fighting even though you agreed you would, but wanted to have the means necisarry to fight? Would you jump into a war you had no notion of, whithout the means to defend yourself? I think not. You fail to see the true aspect here. It was not that I was unwilling to fight, its that me, and other nations like me, were not in a possition to fight. And sorry but if you disagree that makes you just as bad of a leader as them. Do you think anyone would have Elected Bush if right of the hand he wanted to wage war? Do you think anyone would fight for him if he said do it now or else? As a citizen of the United States of America, would join the military if they said it your duty, do it now or pay the price. Would you jump into battel with no notion of whats going on. Would you send your country to battel while in the middle of a great depression? If you were a country the size of hawii would you join NATO and go to war with Cuba, even though you have no funds, resources, structures(i.e improvemnts money) or a means in which to gain income from. The point is to ask a 6 day old nation to jump into a huge alliance war right off the bat is both absurd and dishonorable. Showing the true lack of care and respect for your members. I agree, when in an alliance every nation has a duty to fight, but a duty to commit nation suicide? No we don't. If none of us ever questioned leadership than we would all still be serving a royal family and drinking tea from shoes.

So let me ask one more question. By your rhetoric you suggest that if in an Alliance you are to fight no matter what, no questions, even if your not able to actually sustain a war. So here my question, If the leader of your alliance today was to order you to attack the NPO(Or else) without reason, proof, aid, insurance or the ability ro fight would you? Would you risk destroying yourself and your alliance because of one mans greed.

By your rehtoric, seeing as how Im an inlisted member of the Armed forces than you to need to go sign up. Because if you don't join the military your a traitor to your alliance, your country, your fellow man and yourself. Doesn't matter if your broke, have a wife and kid at home. I told you to join and fight, so you better do it or else... I dont think so. You would flip whoever told you that the bird and walk away. What you suggest in principle is equvilant to a nation wide constant draft, in which you are forced to inlist and fight weather its for the best of the people or not.

I just want to clear things up. Understand these are all sincer questions. I mean no disrespect in them however I do say, I dont agree.
I do agree that as a member of an alliance it is my duty to fight. But not when the terms are unclear, its by force, persicution and threats. Try getting a job that way, or for that matter anything in the real world, let me know how it goes.

[WileyXero]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1326919520' post='2902293']
You're right that we probably aren't going to accept you, having just come out of a losing war, I dont think we want to add members who will take our aid and then abandon us should things get rough again.
[/quote]

You obviously didnt read the above, at no point did I take anything from that alliance. And my war record is quite prestige thank you very much.

[Mada Vopahsolog]

Alliances are player created, run by a few kids with other users just going along, going through the motions. Good rule of thumb is never expect anything from an alliance, and expect them to be more trouble than they're worth.

The only alliances that matter are ones that are populated with your friends. [edit] Or ones that are VERY ideological.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Mada Vopahsolog

[Auctor]

Holy Wall of Text, Batman!

Also yeah, unsurprising that an alliance that gives you protection expects you to fight when it goes to war.

[Sardonic]

I'm sorry, what?

[Alaric]

[quote]Upon the re-roll of my nation I joined the GLoF alliance, looking for protection from raids and alliances, just as most of us do. At no point did I ever ask anything from this alliance, not tech, not aid, not even a friend to talk to. No, what I was intrested in was the brotherhood, and most of you know what I mean by this.[/quote]

[quote]Back when I was around a member was allowed to leave an alliance no consiquences. Now not only am I forced out by ridicule but when I do decide to leave on my accord they have the audacity to lable me a ghost, which happened after I dropped there AA, making it impossible to be a ghost if you dont have there AA anyhow. Not that it would matter considering I can prove my application was accepted.[/quote]

Your own words betray you but I'll add a few of my own:

- You didn't want to talk to anyone but you were seeking 'brotherhood' ? That is hysterical!

- You may typically leave without consequences. The problem in your case was that we were at war and you refused to help defend the alliance.

- We pride ourselves on our integrity and our development of young nations. Goodbye sir!

[GatorNation]

[quote name='Alaric' timestamp='1328197961' post='2913172']
Your own words betray you but I'll add a few of my own:

- You didn't want to talk to anyone but you were seeking 'brotherhood' ? That is hysterical!

- You may typically leave without consequences. The problem in your case was that we were at war and you refused to help defend the alliance.

[b]- We pride ourselves on our integrity and our development of young nations. Goodbye sir![/b]
[/quote]

Well said, Alaric!

[Mayzie]

[quote name='Xero555' timestamp='1326916874' post='2902275']
And boy oh boy do a plan on bumping this topic, if I have my way itll never leave the top of this forum. [/quote]

I don't think that'll be a great idea unless you really want to show every alliance you're unwilling to fight with them when the need arises & that you go off on childish rants.

[Charles the Great]

You signed our application thread. You decided to take aid and still not fight. You slander the Lodge, disrespect us and were warned repeatedly. You are arrogant and childish. The Grand Master and Lodge have determined you shall be punished.

I am sure if you can find an alliance foolish enough to accept you. You will run away from your responsibilities again.

[GatorNation]

Exactly what Charles said.
You decided to join us, which means you are deciding to fight for us during war-time...

I was a 58k nation prior to this war, I had the crappiest war chest ever known to man.. but yet I fought more battles than 3/4's of the alliance. and i was in peace for the first round...
dont see me complaining.

Its like any real life military... you sign up to fight in times of war.

[Ellis]

If this were even in the right forum, it'd still be stupid

[Rhyd3r]

Good luck joining a new alliance Xero555. You're going to need it after this topic.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

Hello Xero, glad to see an older nation ruler returning, or staying on for so long.

Secondly, it is normal for all members of an alliance to be expected to put aside whatever they are doing or planning when an alliance is at war. It is all part and parcel of being in an alliance, give and take. You take protection, access to buyers and aid, and you give cooperation and obedience to alliance decisions and policies. It does not matter if you do not accept or expect aid etc. you are still obligated to go with the flow in war time.

Now, the replies you received when you put forward your case to the government of your alliance might not have been the most patient and calm possible, the fact remains, they were correct in assuming your cooperation and denouncing your reluctance, even if they could have phrased their responses better.

Hope this helps.

[King Wally]

I stopped reading half way through, not out of disrespect I just have things going on I need to get to. Look I just wanted to say I think you would be more at home in a neutral alliance. Suggest you get in touch with someone like Pax Corvus, WTF, GPA etc. Everyone else expects balls to the wall fighting enthusiasm normally. Given some are more leniant then others but unargued war participation is pretty standard in CN.

Hope you stick around in all honesty just find a good place to fit what you are looking for.

[Monster]

People said I was bad at doing this, lol.

[Burnsey]

GLoF will be punished for this. You have my word.

[Megamind]

[quote name='Xero555' timestamp='1326916874' post='2902275']
Does anyone even care?
[/quote]

In short. No

[zzzptm]

[quote name='Anger' timestamp='1329738260' post='2924526']
GLoF will be punished for this. You have my word.
[/quote]
You gonna make Baskan join them? I thought Colossus was better than imposing reps of that magnitude. For shame.

Seriously, GLoF are a solid group of people that have been true and faithful in the many years I've known them. The title of this thread is the oxymoron we've been looking for.

[pezstar]

After reading that wall of text, I think you're trying to say that GLoF is mean because they expected you to fight when you joined them during a time of war.

That's just the way the Cyberverse works, though. It would be cause for concern if GLoF DIDN'T expect that. That they do means they're doing it right.

[raasaa]

GLOF are a bunch of meanies. I totally understand your sentiments Xero, they need to die and take Colossus with them.

You should try joining GPA, TDO or WTF. Perfect place for you to grow your nation peacefully.

Edited February 20, 2012 by raasaa

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='Xero555' timestamp='1326916874' post='2902275']Second question I have is why is there so much disrespect now. Back when I was around a member was allowed to leave an alliance[/quote]

From what you wrote, it isn't clear to me if you left during or after the war. Many alliances consider it a form of treason if you leave during a war and/or don't fight. My personal opinion is that the best policy is to allow nations to leave whenever they want, assuming they haven't done anything extreme like attack another alliance member or not pay the tech they owe. As for taking part in war or not, if a nation is not willing, then perhaps that nation does belong elsewhere. Win-Win

GLoF should just let you go, and wash their hands of the entire affair. I'm not saying you are right and they are wrong or the other way around. Just that it's the best solution, imo, at this point so everyone can move on.

[quote name='Xero555' timestamp='1326916874' post='2902275']Does anyone even care? To me this seems a prime example of why planet bob has declined nearly ten folds in members.[/quote]

Complaining on the OWF about problems one has internally in an alliance (correct or not) never brings sympathy. Got any old friends still around from when you were here before? That's where I would have started - quietly.

[Thrash]

[quote name='Megamind' timestamp='1329738618' post='2924529']
In short. No
[/quote]

lol.. yea, pretty much this.