WAPA and the Warriors go to WAR!

[Clash]

[quote name='B1gAlMan' timestamp='1324489641' post='2883338']
All I got from this is you violated your ceasefire to get back at a grudge on Confusion that you're not calling a grudge because you think someone will believe you. Seriously, why bring in WAPA when the stats were otherwise pretty even, unless there was a chip on your shoulder. (Notice that I am not complaining about the uneven sides, only your faulty reasoning of your acting like Confusion and the violation of your ceasefire agreement). Also, would you really expect Confusion not to talk crap on your alliance when he knows you're going to declare anyway?

PS You can't agree to something and then pull out of it last minute, that just shows you have no honor. But this is TE, what can I say? See you next round, I guess.
[/quote]
The ceasefire hasn't started yet so how could we violate it?

Every round confusion pulls some crap grudge move on us, and we have NEVER pulled that kind of crap. Ever.
History shows it isn't our grudge, it's his.
Just like his grudge against LE that lead to your downdeclare this round.

The stats were NOT even, that's the thing. You guys had several times as many top nations as we do, and still have more if you look at the stats. We have more mid tier nations. After all we had an updeclare this round and you had a curbstomp.

Seriously no one from Duckroll has the right to talk anything after your punk move on LE.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Clash

[Clash]

[quote name='B1gAlMan' timestamp='1324489641' post='2883338']All I got from this is you violated your ceasefire to get backBut this is TE, what can I say? See you next round, I guess.[/quote]
EXACTLY. Who is it who does the grudges again?

[B1gAlMan]

[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1324490204' post='2883345']
The ceasefire hasn't started yet so how could we violate it?

Every round confusion pulls some crap grudge move on us, and we have NEVER pulled that kind of crap. Ever.
History shows it isn't our grudge, it's his.
Just like his grudge against LE that lead to your downdeclare this round.

The stats were NOT even, that's the thing. You guys had several times as many top nations as we do, and still have more if you look at the stats. We have more mid tier nations. After all we had an updeclare this round and you had a curbstomp.

Seriously no one from Duckroll has the right to talk anything after your punk move on LE.
[/quote]
I don't think you're going to peace us out after the 22nd, I think we both know that.

No, no, I don't think Confusion has even brought you up this round, yet. He's taken more of a backstage this round. Also like 50ans isn't really an up-declare. Yes, we did curb-stomp LE, for the crap they pulled last round. That's probably not going to change for crap pulled this round either, next round.

I don't really care what Confusion does, most of us in Duckroll are just here for a good time. And yes, I checked pre-war. We had about 40 nations 190k total and 5k ans. You had 37 nations 184k ans and about a 4.9k ans alone, along with a significant nuclear advantage. It was pretty even, so don't even try to argue that.

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='B1gAlMan' timestamp='1324490597' post='2883351']
I don't think you're going to peace us out after the 22nd, I think we both know that.
[/quote]
We have no intentions of holding you at war.

[B1gAlMan]

[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1324490308' post='2883348']
EXACTLY. Who is it who does the grudges again?
[/quote]
Obviously you have some sort of obsession with Confusion, it's not a grudge, he's just obliging that obsession .

[B1gAlMan]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1324490791' post='2883354']
We have no intentions of holding you at war.
[/quote]
My apologies, I meant before

[Clash]

[quote name='B1gAlMan' timestamp='1324490597' post='2883351']No, no, I don't think Confusion has even brought you up this round, yet. He's taken more of a backstage this round. Also like 50ans isn't really an up-declare. Yes, we did curb-stomp LE, for the crap they pulled last round. That's probably not going to change for crap pulled this round either, next round.

I don't really care what Confusion does, most of us in Duckroll are just here for a good time. And yes, I checked pre-war. We had about 40 nations 190k total and 5k ans. You had 37 nations 184k ans and about a 4.9k ans alone, along with a significant nuclear advantage. It was pretty even, so don't even try to argue that.[/quote]
I think you guys are run by a guy with a history of being a curbstomping weasel who has no sense of sportsmanship or gamesmanship and nothing you have done this round says differently. He said in a recent OWF post he figured we'd be warring soon enough. When I posted the stats from your punk move on LE, he threatened us and said that you guys don't care if you down-declare huge - and that is right with your history. He is very proud of not caring about stats in a war. This one time, we decided not to care either.

[B1gAlMan]

[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1324490966' post='2883359']
I think you guys are run by a guy with a history of being a curbstomping weasel who has no sense of sportsmanship or gamesmanship and nothing you have done this round says differently. He said in a recent OWF post he figured we'd be warring soon enough. When I posted the stats from your punk move on LE, he threatened us and said that you guys don't care if you down-declare huge - and that is right with your history. He is very proud of not caring about stats in a war. This one time, we decided not to care either.
[/quote]
Last time I checked, StevieG does not resemble a weasel. Anyone can say what they want, but Stevie is the one with the final say. Would it make you feel better if we had random members post DoW's and stuff?

[Lehran]

[quote name='B1gAlMan' timestamp='1324490793' post='2883355']
Obviously you have some sort of obsession with Confusion, it's not a grudge, he's just obliging that obsession .
[/quote]

I think more than one person finds fault with Confusion's antics... And it's not an obsession on our part, it's what he has said and done throughout history.

[Clash]

[quote name='B1gAlMan' timestamp='1324491233' post='2883362']Last time I checked, StevieG does not resemble a weasel. Anyone can say what they want, but Stevie is the one with the final say. Would it make you feel better if we had random members post DoW's and stuff?[/quote]
To hear confusion talk he still runs the show and no one else ever corrects him. They did not in the thread where he threatened us did they? So it was steve all by himself who planned the punk curbstomp on LE then? If the behavior stays the same, then what? There is no reason why we would not expect you to do the same to us if you got the chance. Us or anyone else. Your alliance and it's core have done this stuff many, many times. This time we decided to hit you first. At least we are upfront about it. This is NOT worse than what you did to LE.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Clash

[B1gAlMan]

[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1324491599' post='2883368']
To hear confusion talk he still runs the show and no one else ever corrects him. They did not in the thread where he threatened us did they? So it was steve all by himself who planned the punk curbstomp on LE then? If the behavior stays the same, then what? There is no reason why we would not expect you to do the same to us if you got the chance. Us or anyone else. Your alliance and it's core have done this stuff many, many times. This time we decided to hit you first. At least we are upfront about it. This is NOT worse than what you did to LE.
[/quote]
So you're now a saint because you have no idea what goes on in our irc.

Gotchya.

[Clash]

[quote name='B1gAlMan' timestamp='1324492116' post='2883375']So you're now a saint because you have no idea what goes on in our irc.

Gotchya.[/quote]
Never said anything like that, and don't care about it.
I do know you guys have a huge history and pattern of behavior right in line with your LE stomp.

You've done many many times before and you will again.

[memoryproblems]

[quote name='B1gAlMan' timestamp='1324489641' post='2883338']
All I got from this is you violated your ceasefire to get back at a grudge on Confusion that you're not calling a grudge because you think someone will believe you. Seriously, why bring in WAPA when the stats were otherwise pretty even, unless there was a chip on your shoulder. (Notice that I am not complaining about the uneven sides, only your faulty reasoning of your acting like Confusion and the violation of your ceasefire agreement). Also, would you really expect Confusion not to talk crap on your alliance when he knows you're going to declare anyway?

PS You can't agree to something and then pull out of it last minute, that just shows you have no honor. But this is TE, what can I say? See you next round, I guess.
[/quote]

Go and read the terms of the ceasefire. As we did not initiate a war during the timeframe in which the ceasefire was designed to be active for, we have in no way, shape or form violated it.

As for the right to pull out of an agreement, I would say that it is fully within our right as a sovereign alliance to terminate our involvement in an agreement which has not come into effect yet. Furthermore, the thought of somebody who willfully follows Confusion questioning somebody else's honor is laughable, at the least.

[quote name='Buzz Lightyear' timestamp='1324489776' post='2883343']
Im gonna excuse your "come at me bro" at the end there cuz u didnt know im already at war with your alliance and u prob didnt know cuz i forgot to put my TE nation in my profile
[/quote]

I am fully aware, however it would appear as if you have some unused offensive slots there.

Edited December 21, 2011 by memoryproblems

[Buzz Lightyear]

for now

[B1gAlMan]

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1324492541' post='2883380']
Go and read the terms of the ceasefire. As we did not initiate a war during the timeframe in which the ceasefire was designed to be active for, we have in no way, shape or form violated it.

As for the right to pull out of an agreement, I would say that it is fully within our right as a sovereign alliance to terminate our involvement in an agreement which has not come into effect yet. Furthermore, the thought of somebody who willfully follows Confusion questioning somebody else's honor is laughable, at the least.



I am fully aware, however it would appear as if you have some unused offensive slots there.
[/quote]
Maintaining a state of war is a military action, last I checked, unless of course you planned on not running any attacks.

[Clash]

[quote name='Buzz Lightyear' timestamp='1324492724' post='2883381']
for now
[/quote]
HOW DARE YOU well actually I have no idea what that means.

[StevieG]

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1324482302' post='2883292']
We don't believe in denying good friends good oppertunities.

Additionally, Duckroll had a better number of larger nations then we did, among other contributing factors (including that outside of the large advantage we held in nuclear weapons, DR had considerably more NS then we did.)

I am confused as to why you hold objections to bringing WAPA. I thought that it was clear that you had no objections to down-declares (at least not when your the one doing it). Provided tW does not believe in going around and consistently taking the upper-hand in wars, as we enjoy challenges, however once in a while you must make exceptions to give yourself the best chance to achieve what you so desperately desire.
[/quote]
Um, the NS and ANS between us 2 was pretty close, and you just got the #1 nation who has been unscathed to fight with you. You had 60 odd nukes to 9? Id say that is already a down declare, but its our fault really for maybe not getting nukes a little earlier. You brought in WAPA to make sure you won this one, plain and simple. Just like OP/LE did to us last round, and added in SUN, with more than 1k ANS difference, and 1 nuke.

[quote name='NeoGandalf' timestamp='1324485497' post='2883309']
I find no grievances with most of Duckroll, but if DR hit LE for payback I think it is fair that tW may do the same to avenge a past wrong. Also, DR has bigger war chests (top earners) and if I recall tW has gotten out of war with SUN not long ago.

Stevie, I wish I could take you on, but I'm on a trip right now and I can't be too active. Shh, it's a secret!

Now let's see what Confusion has to say about this
[/quote]
Well, what past grievance? Also to say that I have the most cash because Ive earnt the most is foolish. Ive been fighting, and have #1 casualties.

The SUN war? Damaging for tW? You are kidding right? tW had 2 weeks to build, whereas we went to war on day 3/4. tW also took no damage, where SUN took minimal damage. You guys didnt even play with nukes. LOL

[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1324488406' post='2883326']
We pon't have an obsession with him, Steve. He has one with us.
That's just history.


I love you, man

This is not something we are going to make a habit of. We never have before, we most likely won't again. Honest AAs would never have anything to worry about. Did SUN? That was an updeclare and we just got done fighting it. KillerCruiser is a good guy and he runs a fair show over there. That's an example of how we generally roll and will again after this war. Compare the stats from our SUN war and DR's LE war. That shows the difference between us right there - but there's a lot more if you wanted to look for it.

Repeatedly over the rounds, confusion & co have shown that they will pull any dirty move available. He has rogued us so many times I have lost count. Heck, he rogued us just last round. He has sent [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95352&view=findpost&p=2531887"]nuclear rogues[/url] after us in the middle of even [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95352&view=findpost&p=2530035"]updeclare alliances wars[/url] that had nothing to do with him, he spies, he worries about screenshots from forums, he attacks alliances already in war, the list goes on and on. You can go back through the rounds and find so many cheap moves. I was looking for one in particular and accidentally [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=96383&view=findpost&p=2558034"]found this one[/url].

Here's [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=85671"]the one[/url] I was looking for, from waayyyy back in our first round. Confusion didn't like that we interfered with his curbstomp as he was trying to run MHA into the ground. So, he hits me up on IRC with a whole bunch of threats, saying that unless we agreed to peace RIGHT NOW he was going to have his pet AAs destroy us. I missed a trip to the hospital to visit a friend I was so ticked off and I still got the logs somewhere. "I'll have you stomped worse than any AA in TE history!" Nothing has changed. I got basically the same kind of pm on IRC from him last night. Threats and crap and "oh we're so much better than everybody" blah blah blah. Same ol confusion, same stuff every round. Links given here are just a small fraction of what he does. You can look back through every round and see it. The kid is a weasel. He runs an alliance about the cheapest way anyone can anywhere in all of CN. He has never had any honor and I doubt he ever will.

Make no mistake about it, unlike DR's LE war, this is not a grudge. There is a difference between a grudge and recognizing a pattern of behavior that continuously repeats itself. Sooner or later they'd have down-declared on us. That is a fact, it's what he does. They would have made sure they had every advantage they could get and not cared about fairness - just like they did in their LE war. The odds here are better than the odds were in that war. That was one of the biggest down-declares in the recent history of TE. That's a fact too.

We're just a bit weary of him. This is pre-emptive strike against someone who was planning to try and curbstomp us eventually anyways - like he does in every war. Heck we just came out of a war and we went right back into one. So, we'll see what happens, it's not like this is an eternal war or anything. One thing's for sure: confusion never changes.
[/quote]

Clash, you may have been away for a few rounds. Let me refresh your memory.

LE have hit us early in the past 2 rounds, like day 5 to 7. We werent going to let it happen a 3rd time. 2 rounds ago they hit us 1 on 1 and got spanked, so last round they brought OP with them, yes OP/LE vs Anon/SUN. It was SUNs 2nd round, and were useless aside from 1 or 2 nations.
[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1324490204' post='2883345']
The ceasefire hasn't started yet so how could we violate it?

Every round confusion pulls some crap grudge move on us, and we have NEVER pulled that kind of crap. Ever.
History shows it isn't our grudge, it's his.
Just like his grudge against LE that lead to your downdeclare this round.

The stats were NOT even, that's the thing. You guys had several times as many top nations as we do, and still have more if you look at the stats. We have more mid tier nations. After all we had an updeclare this round and you had a curbstomp.

Seriously no one from Duckroll has the right to talk anything after your punk move on LE.
[/quote]

You calling this an updeclare now?
[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1324491599' post='2883368']
To hear confusion talk he still runs the show and no one else ever corrects him. They did not in the thread where he threatened us did they? So it was steve all by himself who planned the punk curbstomp on LE then? If the behavior stays the same, then what? There is no reason why we would not expect you to do the same to us if you got the chance. Us or anyone else. Your alliance and it's core have done this stuff many, many times. This time we decided to hit you first. At least we are upfront about it. This is NOT worse than what you did to LE.
[/quote]

You will find that I posted in the thread a few minutes after Con posted it. And we were not threatening anyone fyi.

And yes, I gave the go ahead to hit LE early. As ive already explained, the hit on LE was pre planned before the round started. Hit them before they have a chance to hit us, using all necessary fire power. If you look at it, we had 38 or so nations to their 29??? thats like a 33% advantage we went in with. Thats not a huge down declare! Our planning was just perfect, and it went off without a hitch. LE performed admirably though, and did stunt us somewhat.

You however had 2 full weeks to build, then a little non nuke??? spar for a few days. All you need to be fully recovered is a single sled, then you hit us before we loaded nukes, to which I wouldnt normally find fault. Its bringing WAPA along that just makes you seem like a fool.

[Owney OSullivan]

Well, when faced with a superior nuclear force, you can still win. Just look at RE's failed attempt to wreck us up. I would say just make the best of the situation and go out there and fight your hardest.

Good luck to all.

[StevieG]

You came with

260k NS
about 4500 ANS
60 odd nukes
57 members

against

190k NS
4600 ANS
9 nukes
38 members

That, id say is a pretty bad down declare, one of the worst for a few rounds.

LE 88k
ANS cant remember
nukes 0
Members about 30

DR 102k
ANS cant remember
nukes 0
Members about 40

Which one is worse really?

Anyways, it was clear with the SUN DoW that you werent interested in actually fighting updeclares, even though somehow you managed to call that an up declare, and conveniently glossed over the nuke category. Or maybe you already knew you wouldnt be using any nukes.

[paul711]

[quote name='B1gAlMan' timestamp='1324489641' post='2883338']
All I got from this is you violated your ceasefire to get back at a grudge on Confusion that you're not calling a grudge because you think someone will believe you. Seriously, why bring in WAPA when the stats were otherwise pretty even, unless there was a chip on your shoulder. (Notice that I am not complaining about the uneven sides, only your faulty reasoning of your acting like Confusion and the violation of your ceasefire agreement). Also, would you really expect Confusion not to talk crap on your alliance when he knows you're going to declare anyway?

PS You can't agree to something and then pull out of it last minute, that just shows you have no honor. But this is TE, what can I say? See you next round, I guess.
[/quote]
For the record the truce agreement covers aggressive acts during the expressed time frames. Those committed before and after are not violations.

[Lehran]

[quote name='Buzz Lightyear' timestamp='1324492724' post='2883381']
for now
[/quote]

If you can boost around 3k NS, I still have 3 defensive slots open

[memoryproblems]

[quote name='StevieG' timestamp='1324496203' post='2883411']
Um, the NS and ANS between us 2 was pretty close, and you just got the #1 nation who has been unscathed to fight with you. You had 60 odd nukes to 9? Id say that is already a down declare, but its our fault really for maybe not getting nukes a little earlier. You brought in WAPA to make sure you won this one, plain and simple. Just like OP/LE did to us last round, and added in SUN, with more than 1k ANS difference, and 1 nuke.


Well, what past grievance? Also to say that I have the most cash because Ive earnt the most is foolish. Ive been fighting, and have #1 casualties.

The SUN war? Damaging for tW? You are kidding right? tW had 2 weeks to build, whereas we went to war on day 3/4. tW also took no damage, where SUN took minimal damage. You guys didnt even play with nukes. LOL



Clash, you may have been away for a few rounds. Let me refresh your memory.

LE have hit us early in the past 2 rounds, like day 5 to 7. We werent going to let it happen a 3rd time. 2 rounds ago they hit us 1 on 1 and got spanked, so last round they brought OP with them, yes OP/LE vs Anon/SUN. It was SUNs 2nd round, and were useless aside from 1 or 2 nations.


You calling this an updeclare now?


You will find that I posted in the thread a few minutes after Con posted it. And we were not threatening anyone fyi.

And yes, I gave the go ahead to hit LE early. As ive already explained, the hit on LE was pre planned before the round started. Hit them before they have a chance to hit us, using all necessary fire power. If you look at it, we had 38 or so nations to their 29??? thats like a 33% advantage we went in with. Thats not a huge down declare! Our planning was just perfect, and it went off without a hitch. LE performed admirably though, and did stunt us somewhat.

You however had 2 full weeks to build, then a little non nuke??? spar for a few days. All you need to be fully recovered is a single sled, then you hit us before we loaded nukes, to which I wouldnt normally find fault. Its bringing WAPA along that just makes you seem like a fool.
[/quote]

I would like to quote the particularly relevant portion again,

[b][i]"using all necessary fire power."[/i][/b]

We would have been content to drop our whole grudge against Confusion, however I don't believe for a second that Confusion would not have attempted to $%&@ us over [b]again[/b] at some point in the not too far future. We saw a good opportunity, and we took it. I hardly see how you can hold objections to that when that has consistently been the way that you and yours have operated.

Is this war a down-declare? yeah.
Is that how we normally roll? no.

This war is an exception. Sadly, I find it hard for you to argue that the approach DR took with LE was an exception, that appeared more like standard operating procedure for you guys.

Confusion (and Duckroll) have clearly established the playbook they live by with their past actions, we simply decided to borrow a page. When this all comes to a conclusion, we would of course like to return to our way of seeking out challenging wars that test our abilities, and we'd enjoy nothing else then to not cross paths again, but somehow I have a feeling like just when we are at our most vulnerable, Confusion will be there, waiting to use whatever it takes to convince himself once again that he's a big dog.

As for not nuking SUN, well quite simply, we were saving them for you.

Edited December 21, 2011 by memoryproblems

[StevieG]

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1324497503' post='2883427']
I would like to quote the particularly relevant portion again,

[b][i]"using all necessary fire power."[/i][/b]

We would have been content to drop our whole grudge against Confusion, however I don't believe for a second that Confusion would not have attempted to $%&@ us over [b]again[/b] at some point in the not too far future. We saw a good opportunity, and we took it. I hardly see how you can hold objections to that when that has consistently been the way that you and yours have operated.

Is this war a down-declare? yeah.
Is that how we normally roll? no.

This war is an exception. Sadly, I find it hard for you to argue that the approach DR took with LE was an exception, that appeared more like standard operating procedure for you guys.

Confusion (and Duckroll) have clearly established the playbook they live by with their past actions, we simply decided to borrow a page. When this all comes to a conclusion, we would of course like to return to our way of seeking out challenging wars that test our abilities, and we'd enjoy nothing else then to not cross paths again, but somehow I have a feeling like just when we are at our most vulnerable, Confusion will be there, waiting to use whatever it takes to convince himself once again that he's a big dog.

As for not nuking SUN, well quite simply, we were saving them for you.
[/quote]

Can you not read??? LE have hit us early in the past 2 rounds! like day 5 etc. For that I will refer you to Mr Newtons 3rd law.

Quite simply you need a couple of AAs to beat us because you arent good enough even with the massive nuke advantage. And yes its my mistake, I was a little busy and didnt realise the SUN tW war didnt go nuclear or I would have ordered nukes to be bought sooner.

We would have hit you, yes, and you would have likely had 100 nukes by then, which would have resulted in mutual destruction, after which we could rebuild and do it again.

[memoryproblems]

[quote name='StevieG' timestamp='1324498802' post='2883441']
Can you not read??? LE have hit us early in the past 2 rounds! like day 5 etc. For that I will refer you to Mr Newtons 3rd law.

Quite simply you need a couple of AAs to beat us because you arent good enough even with the massive nuke advantage. And yes its my mistake, I was a little busy and didnt realise the SUN tW war didnt go nuclear or I would have ordered nukes to be bought sooner.

We would have hit you, yes, and you would have likely had 100 nukes by then, which would have resulted in mutual destruction, after which we could rebuild and do it again.
[/quote]

You seem to be of the opinion that its acceptable for you to use excessive force against those you perceive to have wronged you, but not for others to do the same.

I can't tell you what we needed to beat duckroll, I can only tell you what we brought.

[Buzz Lightyear]

[quote name='NeoGandalf' timestamp='1324497154' post='2883421']
If you can boost around 3k NS, I still have 3 defensive slots open
[/quote]
but then i would have no more money. lol. maybe next time?