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[quote name='Daeryon' timestamp='1323689989' post='2875133']
I'm pretty sure that's just being a pain in the butt.
[/quote]
I think that is the point somehow, it is not as if they can actually achieve anything more than that now is it.

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[quote name='Daeryon' timestamp='1323689989' post='2875133']
There's a difference between forging your own path and being a pain in the butt.

FAN has been admirable in many ways, especially for surviving VietFan. I know during our own darkest hour at the end of Karma war one of the things that kept us going was knowing that if you guys did it, we could too.

However since winning VietFan I'm not sure you guys have done anything other than be one note.

And I'm not sure repeatedly attacking NPO is forging your own path.

I'm pretty sure that's just being a pain in the butt.
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Not even sure if I could call FAN pre-empting Pacifica twice this year was a pain in the butt for NPO.

NPO came out in a much better political position after the DH/FAN vs NPO war. NPO was able to forge new treaties and friends from alliances that I did not think was possible before the war.

I see the same positive results for NPO after this current war.

So yea FAN pre-empts had been a welcome event for Pacifica.

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[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1323563230' post='2872996']
While I greatly respect almost everything your alliance has ever said or done, I find your assertion about preaching to the rest of CN , that we are "living in !@#$," to be a little hypocritical.

... snip...

Would everyone being like FAN make it more interesting? This is where I burst your bubble. No, it wouldnt. Humans are what they are. The same situation where 2 sides form, and they fight. And one side reigns superior for a time, while the 2nd tries to catch up, will just repeat itself.
[/quote]


I don't see the hypocrisy. Yes, we were part of the Initiative and that set a very bad precedent. But, we learned from that mistake. What more can you do? Sure, it's great not to make mistakes in the first place, but if you do, then as long as you don't repeat them, that's all you can do. Which is why we don't have treaties now. You're right in the fact that we should know as well or better than most the pitfalls of large treaty blocs. We could have gotten out of VietFAN and signed treaties. We could have started a new bloc. We had those options, but chose instead to free ourselves from that as well as freeing those that would have been aligned with us.

Our system works. We are far from alone in this world even though we have no contracts with any other alliances. It just hasn't caught on. Why? Well, as you point out "Humans are what they are". Fearful, fragile types that feel safer in a herd. An alliance brings this sense of security, but for most that's not enough. They need to surround their alliance with other alliances. In the end each individual nation is just hoping that if !@#$ goes bad that the herd will protect them. That doesn't fit FAN. We have a pack mentality, not a herd mentality. At one time I thought we could break that way of thinking. Now I don't think it's possible, because as you stated, it is their nature.

Like Calderon said, "If god did not want them sheered, he would not have made them sheep."

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[quote name='mpol777' timestamp='1323712355' post='2875339']
I don't see the hypocrisy. Yes, we were part of the Initiative and that set a very bad precedent. But, we learned from that mistake. What more can you do? Sure, it's great not to make mistakes in the first place, but if you do, then as long as you don't repeat them, that's all you can do. Which is why we don't have treaties now. You're right in the fact that we should know as well or better than most the pitfalls of large treaty blocs. We could have gotten out of VietFAN and signed treaties. We could have started a new bloc. We had those options, but chose instead to free ourselves from that as well as freeing those that would have been aligned with us.

Our system works. We are far from alone in this world even though we have no contracts with any other alliances. It just hasn't caught on. Why? Well, as you point out "Humans are what they are". Fearful, fragile types that feel safer in a herd. An alliance brings this sense of security, but for most that's not enough. They need to surround their alliance with other alliances. In the end each individual nation is just hoping that if !@#$ goes bad that the herd will protect them. That doesn't fit FAN. We have a pack mentality, not a herd mentality. At one time I thought we could break that way of thinking. Now I don't think it's possible, because as you stated, it is their nature.
[/quote]

Pretty much an accurate assessment of things around here. Unfortunately, I feel this will go underrated.

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[quote name='hawk11' timestamp='1323729389' post='2875693']
Pretty much an accurate assessment of things around here. Unfortunately, I feel this will go underrated.
[/quote]
Except that it's not. Some alliances are that way because the contingent members actually like each other, and some inter-alliance alliances are made for the same reason. Look at the alliances that defend each other to the end no matter what the odds are, and even sometimes to their own detriment. If anything, it's easiest to survive in this game by declaring neutrality and getting on with it. For those who want a riskier experience, banding with friends is often a good way to go, even if said friends don't provide the most protection or connections.

I'd just like to see FAN fight someone besides the NPO. It's not like the NPO is the only alliance to ever play the political game FAN says it hates, after all. The whole "death to treaties and blocs!" philosophy is pretty interesting when it doesn't result in the same thing every time.

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[quote name='Daeryon' timestamp='1323689989' post='2875133']
FAN has been admirable in many ways, especially for surviving VietFan. I know during our own darkest hour at the end of Karma war one of the things that kept us going was knowing that if you guys did it, we could too.

[/quote]

Karma war was 3 months long. Must have been oh so dark. :lol1:

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[quote name='east westovia' timestamp='1323771010' post='2876413']
Karma war was 3 months long. Must have been oh so dark. :lol1:
[/quote]

Right, Yeah. I forgot that at the time we had psychically divined that peace was going to be reached.

I'm glad the tarot cards made sure we knew what was going to happen before it did.


You missed the point skippy.

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