Third Time's the Charm

[Kahiel]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1322962419' post='2861211']

(This is based on my memory so details may be off..) Back in the day Fark was 'opposed' to the NPO 'side' (old GOONS was a significant player in this story, but FAN/GGA/\m//IRON/NpO etc. were all NPO supporters). I use the word opposed loosely because they were not openly against them, but they weren't aligned to them (similar to VE 1.0). They were afraid what would happen to them considering what happened to VE 1.0 (and others, see ONOS, GPA, etc) so they ended up treatying NPO.

Half of their membership revolted because they didn't want to treaty NPO, and GOONS egged on a few prominent members to leave and create TotalFarkistan, the alliance basically split in half. GOONS also gave a protectorate (or MDP, can't remember) to TF!. Fark eventually declared war on TF! and GOONS rolled them. Under the direction of NPO, GOONS kept Fark at war for a long time and then extracted reps for them and then required Fark to sell their donations to GOONS and NPO nations for 6 months or whatever. A lot of people were enraged they had to pay other realm money for reps.

Old GOONS did pay Bob dongs for the donations in quite a few occasions, but I don't believe NPO did.
[/quote]
It's so far off, you're not even in the right time zone.

[Stonewall Jaxon]

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1323048059' post='2862835']
Here's the irony, Brehon. I don't have any connections, or informants, or any of that nonsense.

I get by on the same thing you do, reasoning skills....
[/quote]

I still haven't seen you present a comprehensive logical narrative or analysis; all you've done is insult Brehon. Do you really have a story that varies heavily from the story as Brehon presented it? If so, please elaborate, and try to incorporate the term "soft power" if possible.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1323055896' post='2862988']
I still haven't seen you present a comprehensive logical narrative or analysis; all you've done is insult Brehon. Do you really have a story that varies heavily from the story as Brehon presented it? If so, please elaborate, and try to incorporate the term "soft power" if possible.
[/quote]
Well, yes, that is, in fact, all I have done.

But since I don't need to pad wording, I'll simply phrase my opinion of events thusly:

Rather than allowing treaty chains to proceed in a way guaranteed to favor the Grudge Coalition, this is an attempt to cause treaty chains to fall in based on an NPO-centered conflict that would draw in CnG swiftly, thus keeping those alliances occupied while SF and it's own heavy hitters come to bat in order to assist the Polars.

While, if you actually read what I said (you did, right?), I pointed out that Brehon's viewpoint was valid, it simply didn't take into account that if another alliance fit the bill other than Pacifica, then they would have been hit instead. Brehon just outright assumed that the strike itself was about Pacifica as the basis for his reasoning, which I think is incorrect since...well...yeah. I guess if Fark really did operate in a vacuum and would make ridiculous leaps of logic, then sure, I guess he could be right about this really being a grudge match.

But I always operate under the assumption that people are intelligent until proven otherwise.

[i]That being said[/i], the major flaw of this perspective is that it assumes that those who would undergo such a strategy would be betting that people would just tuck their thumbs into their pockets and follow the treaty chains like falling dominoes. It's not really a flaw in the analysis, per se, but a flaw in such a strategy.

Once again, my critique of Brehon's analysis was his assumption that the "grudge match" was the root cause of the declaration, rather than taking into account the context of it. He limited his reasoning to a vacuum, which tends to be a fatal flaw in any attempt at deduction.

Also "soft power". We cool?

[Aeternos Astramora]

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1323064012' post='2863375'][i]That being said[/i], the major flaw of this perspective is that it assumes that those who would undergo such a strategy would be betting that people would just tuck their thumbs into their pockets and follow the treaty chains like falling dominoes. It's not really a flaw in the analysis, per se, but a flaw in such a strategy.[/quote]
Yeah, I can't see this obvious ploy working, what with the ghost declarations and "why the hell not" DoW's we have nowadays.

[Brehon]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1322972351' post='2861469']
Enlighten us, what exactly is the rationale behind this move?
[/quote]

Todays education: In this quote we see Kalasin asking for Seasons of Love to give the rationale behind this move of FARKs to which Seasons of of Love hasn't explained. To which I responded with:

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1322973362' post='2861474']
Really Fran? I mean I see the rationale (its flawed but I see it). Its pretty hard for most to tell where NPO is and who really likes us, because frankly that list is still small. So if you were going to go out on an alliance, why not go out on one that you already don't like and will generally gather the least sympathy so potential counters are reduced.

Additionally if you wanted to draw in some others based on ties, NPO has just enough ties to attempt to draw people out. Really its not a bad move... its just a few months late.

Do all of this and in some offshoot show some support to an alliance that you are tied to that is becoming more and more isolated... it works.

And then if we drop all the theory craft, follow suit of a war, pick an old issue and end boredom.
[/quote]

This quote is a rational that can/could exist. Was it Seasons of Love's? Not unless he says it is. Is it the only Rational? No, not in the slightest. Is it the rational FARK used? Not unless they say it is. Thus, this is merely an example of a rational, which was used to give Kalasin an answer considering after reading SoL's post she stated (by insinuation) she could not see a rational considering it only took SoL five minutes to see one. Does this rational give any reason for disdain or some left field hatred... well !@#$ I guess it does to some.

There are certainly smarter people than I on these forums. Hell I will easily give that title to the likes of Yev, Pansy, Xiphosis, Letum, ChefJoe (and $%&@ I am going to regret saying this) Dajobo. But does that make me a fool or ignorant. Not in the least. Wrong on some issues? Absolutely. Civil? Not all the time. Do I give people a hard time? Sure I do. But incompetent fool? Well its in the eye of the beholder. I take pride when I look at my alliance, see how far we have come and know I had my hand in those accomplishments. I look a at couple of people around here and I see coat riding sorry sacks of !@#$ with nothing better to do than trying to make a name for themselves on the OWF because they have failed everywhere else, as clearly illustrated by the parties I am referring to (hey if the shoe fits wear it)

So in the end take with it what you will, but grab something tangible before you come at me. At least then you have a chance. Until then go do something to better your alliance.

PS: Yeah I saw those and I had to ask wtf. Meh its war, we should just enjoy it. Don't worry there will be presents for you too Kosmo. BTW ask Tums who she came to for advice on how to talk trash to me

Edited December 5, 2011 by Brehon

[Charles Stuart]

NPO was the convenient target, nothing more. NPO's past acts only gave FARK a convenient excuse to declare war and if it had been another alliance in NPO's position which had committed the acts which NPO has, then the justification would have been different but FARK would have declared all the same. The only reason NPO was attacked is due to the CnG connection, that much was apparent the very second FARK declared. It is rather sad though that the once greatest alliance in this game which remained ontop for years and achieved dominance like no other alliance before or since has now been reduced to nothing more than a convenient target. That isn't an attack on NPO, far from it, just more proof of the fact that NPO really has changed.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Charles Stuart

[Charles Stuart]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1323017352' post='2862311']
Wanted to let you know that this was a quality response to Crymson's post. Well done!
[/quote]

+1 for sarcasm.

Crymson knows I was just messing around with him or at least I hope does anyway.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Charles Stuart

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1323080537' post='2863579']
<snip>
[/quote]

You know, my post was a bit harsh. Sorry. I do disagree with what you wrote but I kind of bit your head off when it was a fairly reasoned post.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Kalasin

[Brehon]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1323084197' post='2863599']
You know, my post was a bit harsh. Sorry. I do disagree with what you wrote but I kind of bit your head off when it was a fairly reasoned post.
[/quote]

Fair enough I can and do appreciate this post.

[NeCoHo]

I hope you enjoy the show FARK. Just pray Mary, Brehon, and Farrin doesn't put me in charge of deciding what your surrender terms will be.

[Stonewall Jaxon]

[quote name='NeCoHo' timestamp='1323137033' post='2864752']
I hope you enjoy the show FARK. Just pray Mary, Brehon, and Farrin doesn't put me in charge of deciding what your surrender terms will be.
[/quote]

Wow, you really haven't learned a damn thing.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Stonewall Jaxon

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1323080537' post='2863579']
Todays education: In this quote we see Kalasin asking for Seasons of Love to give the rationale behind this move of FARKs to which Seasons of of Love hasn't explained. To which I responded with:



This quote is a rational that can/could exist. Was it Seasons of Love's? Not unless he says it is. Is it the only Rational? No, not in the slightest. Is it the rational FARK used? Not unless they say it is. Thus, this is merely an example of a rational, which was used to give Kalasin an answer considering after reading SoL's post she stated (by insinuation) she could not see a rational considering it only took SoL five minutes to see one. Does this rational give any reason for disdain or some left field hatred... well !@#$ I guess it does to some.

There are certainly smarter people than I on these forums. Hell I will easily give that title to the likes of Yev, Pansy, Xiphosis, Letum, ChefJoe (and $%&@ I am going to regret saying this) Dajobo. But does that make me a fool or ignorant. Not in the least. Wrong on some issues? Absolutely. Civil? Not all the time. Do I give people a hard time? Sure I do. But incompetent fool? Well its in the eye of the beholder. I take pride when I look at my alliance, see how far we have come and know I had my hand in those accomplishments. I look a at couple of people around here and I see coat riding sorry sacks of !@#$ with nothing better to do than trying to make a name for themselves on the OWF because they have failed everywhere else, as clearly illustrated by the parties I am referring to (hey if the shoe fits wear it)

So in the end take with it what you will, but grab something tangible before you come at me. At least then you have a chance. Until then go do something to better your alliance.

PS: Yeah I saw those and I had to ask wtf. Meh its war, we should just enjoy it. Don't worry there will be presents for you too Kosmo. BTW ask Tums who she came to for advice on how to talk trash to me
[/quote]


This is a great post.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1323085678' post='2863605']
Fair enough I can and do appreciate this post.
[/quote]
I have difficulty telling whether or not you were serious when you were accusing anyone of having a desperate need to appear relevant. To be fair my judgment is slightly impaired at the moment, but if you were, then the irony is quite staggering.

I mean, you'll have to do a lot more to get an apology from me then just tossing out random assumptions and self-delusions, you know? It kind of makes me wish you were capable of something other than relying on your own self-made image of your own ability when it comes to responding to critics.

But as I have said, my judgmwent is slight impaired at the moment, so if I misunderstood what you were trying to say, tjen I apologize. Otherwise I won't. Honestly.

Oh well, have fun in this war, Brehon. I'm sure you can manage that much, at the very least.

Heh. Desperate need for relevance. I will certainly give that one points for originality, if not accuracy.

[TehChron]

edit: random double post

Edited December 6, 2011 by TehChron

[Inferno]

THis DoW was wrong.

NpO is and was treacherous and quarrelsome. Grub deserves hell and more.

Sad to seen this