So I have this idea

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1322748064' post='2858156']
chefjoe isn't even close.
[/quote]
LOL if you say so.

Hey if i can find the time im always willing to learn something new.

[Trinite]

But I want everyone to like me. #partoftheproblem

[Londo Mollari]

As cool as your methods were back in the day and as much fun stuff as you did with them, they aren't particularly effective at advancing the interests of an alliance these days and have not been for many years - especially if said alliance is not in an absolutely commanding position in terms of strength. There is a reason that NSO essentially became a punching bag for anyone and everyone you were a dick to over the years, and that's that you didn't have the strength to back up your antagonism. All bark and no bite. Eventually it just became kind of sad, and I think you realized that as you retired. I retired from leading Athens partly for similar reasons, in that I realized that the world had grown sufficiently fragmented that directing any kind of action was becoming progressively more difficult and impossible in many cases. And indeed, since the day I hung up my hat, the only wars that have been fought have been pursued against pariah alliances with little to no meaningful political support.

I don't think the problem is that people don't know how to be antagonists, but that the world is far too fragmented into different political spheres to permit very successful antagonism. Dilber had an idea to fix that... first with Initiative and later with Continuum... and that worked great except for infighting from within and assaults from without (/me bows) eventually destroying them. The political superstructures that we attempted to raise in their place after their destruction, either were not cohesive enough to permit real antagonism (Supergrievances), or lacked the necessary support, except perhaps to operate against a pariah alliance or two (Pandora's Box/Doomhouse).

I think ultimately what is needed for sustainable aggression is a very large and overwhelmingly powerful organization, that permits for some kind of social mobility, both for an alliance to fall out of favor or to be inducted into its august halls. In this way, the mightiest empire ever to grace Bob(tm) can perpetuate its own strength, by culling weakness from its ranks and introducing new strength. Those who are outside the wall exist in an environment where they have to be strong to survive, which encourages strength, and those inside will tend to get lazy and complacent, which will encourage expulsion. Thus a constant flow rate can be maintained, and things can be kept stirred up and fresh. Proper organization of this Empire will ensure victory after victory, but while the Empire abides, its members will change. The greatest challenges to implementing the Empire are setting up effective mechanisms for A) governance of the Empire's actions over time, B) induction of new alliance-members, C) expulsion of old alliance members. I forsee that either a kind of democracy in the inductions and expulsion, or a benevolent tyrant king who truly acted based upon the current of the people's will, would be needed.

[Londo Mollari]

And of course, as you can see from the post above mine, part of the problem is that everyone is friends with everyone else now. Perhaps your school of antagonism can change that and turn Planet Bob into a seething snakepit of anger and hate, and from this anger and hate, a New Order may arise. I wish you luck.

[TehChron]

If you don't mind me saying, Londo, one of the main benefits of this is not necessarily that the graduates will be an army of Moldavi clones.

Rather it will be a class of individuals tested by Ivan to have a skillset and the insight in how to use it to it's maximum effectiveness. All participants are likely to develop their own style during the course, and will implement what they've learned regardless of success or failure.

[i]Since it bears repeating, this class likely won't serve as "Moldavism 101", but rather, "manipulation and cunning for dummies" for those who partake in it.[/i]

It will be up to those individuals to bring a drive and cunning to their work afterwards. Anyone can agree that Ivan's limitation has always been that he needs a strong support base to succeed (a la Pacifica vs the NSO), but those who graduate will have their own power bases and sphere of influence to utilize in testing their newfound skillset.

For the prospect of seeing those results alone, this is a highly worthwhile endeavor.

[Kubla Khan]

I would love to to it

[AzureShadow]

This is great, I'd totally get in on this.

How many people are you going to be able to have take the class?

[Bill Wallace]

School sucks. No thanks. Plus if I want lessons in AHOLE101, I'll just pay attention to Impero.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1322759307' post='2858244']
School sucks. No thanks. Plus if I want lessons in AHOLE101, I'll just pay attention to Impero.
[/quote]
true he is a master of that.

[eyriq]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1322755153' post='2858215']
As cool as your methods were back in the day and as much fun stuff as you did with them, they aren't particularly effective at advancing the interests of an alliance these days and have not been for many years - especially if said alliance is not in an absolutely commanding position in terms of strength. There is a reason that NSO essentially became a punching bag for anyone and everyone you were a dick to over the years, and that's that you didn't have the strength to back up your antagonism. All bark and no bite. Eventually it just became kind of sad, and I think you realized that as you retired. I retired from leading Athens partly for similar reasons, in that I realized that the world had grown sufficiently fragmented that directing any kind of action was becoming progressively more difficult and impossible in many cases. And indeed, since the day I hung up my hat, the only wars that have been fought have been pursued against pariah alliances with little to no meaningful political support.

I don't think the problem is that people don't know how to be antagonists, but that the world is far too fragmented into different political spheres to permit very successful antagonism. Dilber had an idea to fix that... first with Initiative and later with Continuum... and that worked great except for infighting from within and assaults from without (/me bows) eventually destroying them. The political superstructures that we attempted to raise in their place after their destruction, either were not cohesive enough to permit real antagonism (Supergrievances), or lacked the necessary support, except perhaps to operate against a pariah alliance or two (Pandora's Box/Doomhouse).

I think ultimately what is needed for sustainable aggression is a very large and overwhelmingly powerful organization, that permits for some kind of social mobility, both for an alliance to fall out of favor or to be inducted into its august halls. In this way, the mightiest empire ever to grace Bob(tm) can perpetuate its own strength, by culling weakness from its ranks and introducing new strength. Those who are outside the wall exist in an environment where they have to be strong to survive, which encourages strength, and those inside will tend to get lazy and complacent, which will encourage expulsion. Thus a constant flow rate can be maintained, and things can be kept stirred up and fresh. Proper organization of this Empire will ensure victory after victory, but while the Empire abides, its members will change. The greatest challenges to implementing the Empire are setting up effective mechanisms for A) governance of the Empire's actions over time, B) induction of new alliance-members, C) expulsion of old alliance members. I forsee that either a kind of democracy in the inductions and expulsion, or a benevolent tyrant king who truly acted based upon the current of the people's will, would be needed.
[/quote]

The result is the same, wars will be effected against "pariah alliances with little to no meaningful political support". Multipolarity or Hegemony, you don't solve [i]that[/i] problem, (though it isn't at all clear that it is a problem within a multipolar enviroment). Considering that we are just now, after 2 years post karma, [i]just[/i] starting to move into a multipolar environment, and that this is the first potential war with both old heg and SG forces mixed and matched on different sides, it is way to early to declare the multipolar world as a broke system.

[Canik]

Someone with the ego and swagger of Ivan would never sign up for something like this.

[Shaka Zulu]

I'm in just to see how I stack up with ONE of the All-Time Greats.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Shaka Zulu

[Kzoppistan]

Give me an honorary degree now or I'll murder you in the face.

Just to speed up the process, since your reply is superfluous in regards to my aims, I'll just [i]take[/i] that honorary degree.

There. That was easy.

~ President Mr.Otingocni, PHD;
Ruler of Kzoppistan Primarily and Everything Else By Default
Dean of the College of Social Sciences, Prof. of Sociopathology and Advanced Antagonism

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1322776128' post='2858486']
Give me an honorary degree now or I'll murder you in the face.

Just to speed up the process, since your reply is superfluous in regards to my aims, I'll just [i]take[/i] that honorary degree.

There. That was easy.

~ President Mr.Otingocni, PHD;
Ruler of Kzoppistan Primarily and Everything Else By Default
Dean of the College of Social Sciences, Prof. of Sociopathology and Advanced Antagonism
[/quote]

Sorry, your alliance affiliation automatically disqualifies you. Better luck next year.

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1322776996' post='2858494']
Sorry, your alliance affiliation automatically disqualifies you. Better luck next year.
[/quote]

Silence, MK peasant, I own all the AAs.

~ President Mr.Otingocni, PHD;
Ruler of Kzoppistan Primarily and Everything Else By Default But Especially MK
Dean of the College of Social Sciences, Prof. of Sociopathology and Advanced Antagonism

Edited December 1, 2011 by Kzoppistan

[Centurius]

This should be pretty sweet.

[IYIyTh]

, well, at least you have some foresight.

[Mogar]

I would definitely like to do this.

[Duke Nukem]

I'd be interested in taking the courses if and when you do this.

[Deimos27]

All of this thread: only in CN

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1322776128' post='2858486']
Give me an honorary degree now or I'll murder you in the face.

Just to speed up the process, since your reply is superfluous in regards to my aims, I'll just [i]take[/i] that honorary degree.

There. That was easy.

~ President Mr.Otingocni, PHD;
Ruler of Kzoppistan Primarily and Everything Else By Default
Dean of the College of Social Sciences, Prof. of Sociopathology and Advanced Antagonism
[/quote]

Haha, Kzopp, I love your posts.

[Wu Tang Clan]

I would love to. I'll contact you in private.

[AnCapistan]

An internet charisma course isn't going to solve such a massive, systemic problem. The cowardice and lack of initiative-taking in this game has permeated every crevice of every alliance in existence. No one wants to take any risks. No one wants to try to build any big aggressive blocs. No one wants to do anything "evil". We've entered such a stage of being massive !@#$%*^ that the sheer thought of offering an alliance something like a viceroy becomes vomit inducing. Our wars have becoming little more than pissing matches. Our current war has completely signaled the annihilation of any interesting political scheming and our last one was to prevent the game from becoming interesting.

Let it stagnate. Let it die. Only when they reach the cusp of absolute destruction will they realize the error of their ways.

$%&@ it all!

But congrats, seems as if you're still famous enough for people to completely brown nose you.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Mr Damsky

[Stonewall Jaxon]

I'm curious about your unique rhetorical perspective, which is almost entirely why I joined your alliance for a significant period of time, and will be applying as soon as an application becomes available. As a recent college student, I sincerely hope you strategically begin courses after "finals season."

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1322724268' post='2857983']
Tomorrow night (later today really) or Friday morning I will add a link to the OP for applications once I figure out how I want to select students.

I will state that since I am hoping this will catch on and I will be able to recruit a few of the better students to help me in the future rounds that the initial class will lean towards more established players. But, I believe I will have applicants provide links to IC posts that highlight their unique rhetorical skills and if I am impressed with a newer player then I may select them as well.
[/quote]

If I recall correctly, the forum only allows one to view his or her posts from the past year. As such, my better posts would be practically impossible to find. Perhaps an interview process is in order?

[603Redneck]

you had me from hello..... im in